OK, I'd agree also adding in the paragons would really complicate matters too far, even though it does have quite an influence, most so with DC and G(W)F, IMHO - but I'm definitely not on the foremost front regarding all classes (especially not the fighters). But e.g. for TR, MI means having, WK means lacking ItC, and that makes for a big difference in survivability...
For TRs the feat tree and capstone really do play quite some role - others are probably firmer in the specifics, so all numbers should treated as suggestions open for discussion. Here's my list for the MIs. WK I don't know well enough from the inside, does have some added DoT and damage and CC as options, but no ItC and SS, which dents their survivability a bit. That should go down to 4.5 for WKs, IMHO.
Sab is the easiest way to permastealth, with spike damage (piercing!) and ArPen and Power buffs from stealth, but no special DoT or CC. I'd go for:
TR MISab: 5 - 4.5(2) - 5 - 4 - 1 - 5
Scoundrel is the permadaze pathway - highly CC focused, and some buffs to followup attacks:
TR MISco: 5 - 4(2) - 5 - 5 - 1 - 5
Exec is the OSK build - +100% POW for first attack from stealth, and SoD kills you with piercing(!) damage after 6 secs even if the TR initially didn't... ...but nothing above the basics on the CC side, also while good in 1v1 a bit less if someone else is around, so:
TR MIExec: 5 - 5(5) - 5 - 3.5 - 1 - 4.5
Some notes on HR: I can't comment on Combat, Nor really do I have solid bas knowledge re. Paragons, but Trapper and Archer diverge mainly in terms of CC, less so in terms of mobility. Archer has (though trapper can use that too, but they have better uses for that encounter slot) a great anti-TR tool with StS, which makes the bumbest ones kill themselves fairly fast - but CC is all but none. Trapper survival also benefits from that CC, and the capstone also gives some nice DoT. But PvP-wise Trapper is superior to Archer, so IMHO:
I'm saying that a trapper HR easily has mobility that's worth at least a 4 if not a 5, because the fact of the matter is you don't play a trapper HR in PvP without running Marauder's 99% of the time. [...]
...also Forest Step is quasi ItC light, gets you out of tight spots, and only eats only half your AP - if you choose to field it above e.g. Disruptive ...
Ok Great TY. Albeit all this getting a bit complicated, should be about as bad as this 'project' i going to get since once most importatn paragon-feats are straightened out it will all collapse down to just filling in reasonable numbers.
If you are using maradeurs as trapper something is really wrong and your damage output goes down to 1 or 2
trappers deserve 2 to mobility and i m really too good
when 99% of classes got 4 dodges, hr dodges are not subpar they plain suck
What in PvP? The mobility is far too useful for me to neglect. In PvE, I agree, Marauder's just doesn't cut it there. But in PvP you should never underestimate the mobility Marauder's gives you. Being able to pick your fights and retreat when things start getting uncomfortable is invaluable, likewise with being able to close gaps and initiate fights from afar.
Also in PvP I run Marauder's for mobility and thus survivability, Constricting for ranged strong roots and stamina refresh in melee form, and Fox for the dodge and melee burst/invincibility/sort of mobility. Builds differ, I understand, but from what I've experienced most HRs seem to run a similar set up in PvP, with the exception of area deniers which run StS and Thorn as well.
...also Forest Step is quasi ItC light, gets you out of tight spots, and only eats only half your AP - if you choose to field it above e.g. Disruptive ...
Yup, personally I field Disruptive and Forest Ghost, being a Storm Warden means that those are usually my best options in both PvP and PvE.
I found a list of all paragon-feat combos. Please tell me which 2 for each class are the most commonly used in pvp and we build table for those only, but only the ones you know well or for sure (your own class and other classes you know well).
TWO (2) Most Common for each Class in PvP???
Most common / most viable / most usefull etc.
For HR, trapper is definitely the most popular for PvP. I'd say Trapper Storm Warden and Trapper Path Finder are the most often seen and used, but they would have pretty much identical stats so...
Looks pretty good for archery, assuming you don't count the area denial from StS and Thorn Ward as a part of crowd control. I'd also argue that Archery has a little less going for it in terms of mobility due to the reasons Rayrdan noted, namely the HRs relatively bad tactical mechanic and movement speed.
For Trapper, I'd drop control to a solid 3.5 at best. This is because while a trapper can lock down a single person not a lot of it is hard control, namely a freeze, prone, or daze. The longest lasting section is the root which has it's duration halved on players, and the only hard control they have is disrupting which only lasts what, 2 seconds before being reduced by tenacity? In addition the strong roots don't usually last long enough to reapply them if you're running them on a single encounter only.
I'm fine with reducing it later on, ofc. Just... ...that 5-5-5-5-1-5 for TR is somewhat unjust. They'll never hold up to these demands without respeccing during the match. :^)
*All 3 should be covered bc of TR strength and popularity Mod5. And footnotes will go to Whisperknife paragon to note difference. Ofc not all will be 5/5/5/5/5/1/5 these will adjust by feattree.
HR
Stormwarden - Trapper
Pathfinder - Trapper
*Probably Stormwarden Archer could be added to for contrast, or at least be footnoted. Trapper to archer: "I got roots Bithc! You ain't."
SW
Soulbinder - fury
Soulbinder - temptation
CW
SpellstormMage - Renegade
Master of Flame - Renegade
*Pretty sure renegade is by far most popular right now M5.. not sure if the two paragons are equally popular or what would the second most popular feat tree.
Most popular two paragon-feat for DC?
Most popular two paragon-feat for GF?
Most popular two paragon-feat for GWF?
...as far as I can see AC is predominant, and as to feat trees: DPS is Righteous, but IMHO not really popular. And whether Virtuos for Faithful is more popular among the Holy MedCorps Tank squad is beyond me. I see both. Both have their justification and strengths. Faithful heals fast, with on-demand auto-heals (GoF), and Virtuous heals with powerful, long-lasting HoT.
Quick bump.. Need this info from those who play these classes:
Two most popular paragon-feat for PvP DC?
Two most popular paragon-feat for PvP GF?
Two most popular paragon-feat for PvP GWF?
based on a poll that happened some months ago in the baracks about GFs:
Most are IV Conqs.Followed by Sm Conqs.Last are SM protectors.
tacticians are nearly extinct.(thanks to CW cries and the perma deflect builds of beggining of mod4)
Ok, will make a survey on separate thread to collect the data, everyone will have chance to input ratings on classes they know best. Will make second thread for survey to make sure its not buried here and get enough response data. The 2-3 paragon-feat builds for each class that are important for PvP will be:
Semi major issue with the survey. I'm finding it impossible to pick the same number for more than one question per category. Eg. On HR Stormwarden: Trapper, I can't choose choose 3.5 for more than one category at a time. If I try to do so, it automatically deletes the previous one which had that rating picked.
Yes there was, it was a setting box that needed unchecking.
I fixed and posted new surveys fast. Links above now correct ^^
TY surveymonkey for saving editable copies of published surveys
Comments
For TRs the feat tree and capstone really do play quite some role - others are probably firmer in the specifics, so all numbers should treated as suggestions open for discussion. Here's my list for the MIs. WK I don't know well enough from the inside, does have some added DoT and damage and CC as options, but no ItC and SS, which dents their survivability a bit. That should go down to 4.5 for WKs, IMHO.
Sab is the easiest way to permastealth, with spike damage (piercing!) and ArPen and Power buffs from stealth, but no special DoT or CC. I'd go for:
TR MISab: 5 - 4.5(2) - 5 - 4 - 1 - 5
Scoundrel is the permadaze pathway - highly CC focused, and some buffs to followup attacks:
TR MISco: 5 - 4(2) - 5 - 5 - 1 - 5
Exec is the OSK build - +100% POW for first attack from stealth, and SoD kills you with piercing(!) damage after 6 secs even if the TR initially didn't... ...but nothing above the basics on the CC side, also while good in 1v1 a bit less if someone else is around, so:
TR MIExec: 5 - 5(5) - 5 - 3.5 - 1 - 4.5
Some notes on HR: I can't comment on Combat, Nor really do I have solid bas knowledge re. Paragons, but Trapper and Archer diverge mainly in terms of CC, less so in terms of mobility. Archer has (though trapper can use that too, but they have better uses for that encounter slot) a great anti-TR tool with StS, which makes the bumbest ones kill themselves fairly fast - but CC is all but none. Trapper survival also benefits from that CC, and the capstone also gives some nice DoT. But PvP-wise Trapper is superior to Archer, so IMHO:
HR Trap: 4 - 4(3.5) - 4 - 4.5 - 3 - 4
HR Arch: 3.5 - 4(0) - 4 - 2.5 - 3 - 3.5
...also Forest Step is quasi ItC light, gets you out of tight spots, and only eats only half your AP - if you choose to field it above e.g. Disruptive ...
Keep the knowledge/feedback coming.
Sopi SW Youtube channel pvp brickabrack
What in PvP? The mobility is far too useful for me to neglect. In PvE, I agree, Marauder's just doesn't cut it there. But in PvP you should never underestimate the mobility Marauder's gives you. Being able to pick your fights and retreat when things start getting uncomfortable is invaluable, likewise with being able to close gaps and initiate fights from afar.
Also in PvP I run Marauder's for mobility and thus survivability, Constricting for ranged strong roots and stamina refresh in melee form, and Fox for the dodge and melee burst/invincibility/sort of mobility. Builds differ, I understand, but from what I've experienced most HRs seem to run a similar set up in PvP, with the exception of area deniers which run StS and Thorn as well.
Yup, personally I field Disruptive and Forest Ghost, being a Storm Warden means that those are usually my best options in both PvP and PvE.
For HR, trapper is definitely the most popular for PvP. I'd say Trapper Storm Warden and Trapper Path Finder are the most often seen and used, but they would have pretty much identical stats so...
Looks pretty good for archery, assuming you don't count the area denial from StS and Thorn Ward as a part of crowd control. I'd also argue that Archery has a little less going for it in terms of mobility due to the reasons Rayrdan noted, namely the HRs relatively bad tactical mechanic and movement speed.
For Trapper, I'd drop control to a solid 3.5 at best. This is because while a trapper can lock down a single person not a lot of it is hard control, namely a freeze, prone, or daze. The longest lasting section is the root which has it's duration halved on players, and the only hard control they have is disrupting which only lasts what, 2 seconds before being reduced by tenacity? In addition the strong roots don't usually last long enough to reapply them if you're running them on a single encounter only.
Complete:
- The Monk - http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?865991-The-Monk-A-Relatively-Detailed-Proposal-for-a-New-Class
Under Work:
- The Primal Totemist
- The Wild Sorcerer
- The Summoning Binder
TR
Master Infiltrator Saboteur
Master Infiltrator Scoundrel
Master Infiltrator Executioner
*All 3 should be covered bc of TR strength and popularity Mod5. And footnotes will go to Whisperknife paragon to note difference. Ofc not all will be 5/5/5/5/5/1/5 these will adjust by feattree.
HR
Stormwarden - Trapper
Pathfinder - Trapper
*Probably Stormwarden Archer could be added to for contrast, or at least be footnoted. Trapper to archer: "I got roots Bithc! You ain't."
SW
Soulbinder - fury
Soulbinder - temptation
CW
SpellstormMage - Renegade
Master of Flame - Renegade
*Pretty sure renegade is by far most popular right now M5.. not sure if the two paragons are equally popular or what would the second most popular feat tree.
Most popular two paragon-feat for DC?
Most popular two paragon-feat for GF?
Most popular two paragon-feat for GWF?
Sopi SW Youtube channel pvp brickabrack
Two most popular paragon-feat for PvP DC?
Two most popular paragon-feat for PvP GF?
Two most popular paragon-feat for PvP GWF?
Sopi SW Youtube channel pvp brickabrack
...as far as I can see AC is predominant, and as to feat trees: DPS is Righteous, but IMHO not really popular. And whether Virtuos for Faithful is more popular among the Holy MedCorps Tank squad is beyond me. I see both. Both have their justification and strengths. Faithful heals fast, with on-demand auto-heals (GoF), and Virtuous heals with powerful, long-lasting HoT.
based on a poll that happened some months ago in the baracks about GFs:
Most are IV Conqs.Followed by Sm Conqs.Last are SM protectors.
tacticians are nearly extinct.(thanks to CW cries and the perma deflect builds of beggining of mod4)
TR
Master Infiltrator Saboteur
Master Infiltrator Executioner
Master Infiltrator Scoundrel
*Footnotes will go to Whisperknife to note difference.
HR
Stormwarden - Trapper
Pathfinder - Trapper
*Footnote on Stormwarden Archer
SW
Soulbinder - fury
Soulbinder - temptation
CW
Spellstorm Mage - Renegade
Spellstorm Mage - Thaumaturge
*footnote to SS oppressor for permafreeze build
DC
Divine Oracle - Righteous (dps)
Annointed Champion - Faithful (healing)
GF
Iron vanguard - Conquerer
Iron vanguard - Protector
*Footnote to note difference of Swordmaster Protectors
GWF
Iron vanguard - Sentinel
Iron vanguard - Destroyer
Sopi SW Youtube channel pvp brickabrack
Complete:
- The Monk - http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?865991-The-Monk-A-Relatively-Detailed-Proposal-for-a-New-Class
Under Work:
- The Primal Totemist
- The Wild Sorcerer
- The Summoning Binder
Surveymonkey was supereasy to use.
PART 1: Rate TR and HR
https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/RQZBW7D
PART 2: Rate CW and SW and DC
https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/RWDZRBY
PART 3: Rate GF and GWF
https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/RWXSFP9
Sopi SW Youtube channel pvp brickabrack
Complete:
- The Monk - http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?865991-The-Monk-A-Relatively-Detailed-Proposal-for-a-New-Class
Under Work:
- The Primal Totemist
- The Wild Sorcerer
- The Summoning Binder
Yes there was, it was a setting box that needed unchecking.
I fixed and posted new surveys fast. Links above now correct ^^
TY surveymonkey for saving editable copies of published surveys
Sopi SW Youtube channel pvp brickabrack