Hopefully Icy Veins is fixed and it gives the full 5 stacks of Chill, because that feat alone could be a game changer. Does that finally give CW's the freedom to take CoI off of tab? Does Icy Terrain fall to the wayside? Given how brutal in your face combat can be, instead of risking the fight point blank, how do you adjust?
If you do not plan to freeze target, you can get rid of Icy Terrain, but if you do, then you HAVE to have it as it is the only AoE power that can freeze enemies. Otherwise you will have to use frost ray on each individual enemy to freeze them, which probably won't be a good idea.
Based on current preview testing, soloing as a CW will be tough as most of our control powers require us to be in/close to melee range to be effective. I think range enemies will give us the most trouble along with immune control mobs.
0
ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
edited March 2015
Ah yeah, good point on the freeze. Maybe IT on tab then
Who knows...it'll be fun to find out!
"Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
0
ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
edited March 2015
PS - Abaddon, if you haven't thought about it already, you should definitely consider making this an official guide. It'll be needed for Module 6, for sure.
"Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
0
onegaki101Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 327Arc User
edited March 2015
oh FYI for Abaddon. For Yoda speech you should use "Learn control, you must" or "Control, learn control, you must"
Edit: English is not my native language, After reading my comment a second time I think I'm not very clear.
Abaddon I like your Yoda quote:
As the great Yoda said: "Control, you must learn control."
With module 6 we will need a more balanced Control wizard...
... it's time to bring balance to the force.
“He raised his staff. There was a roll of thunder. The sunlight was blotted out from the eastern windows; the whole hall became suddenly dark as night. The fire faded to sullen embers. Only Gandalf could be seen, standing white and tall before the blackened hearth.” ― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Two Towers
Was able to get around 22k Power on Preview. INBA 30k Power :}} Yes, defense does nothing in particular, so HV's out of the question for now. Not that it's a terrible thing, imho, it did amazing for the past 5 modules.
I believe that devs should increase the HP gain from the armor enchantments, 400 is TOO LOW and I had it during the MOD5. Unless it changes on 4000 I don't see it being a viable end-game content at all.
This goes for all armor enchantments tbh.
Control will be easy, as well. Party - team up with a MOF, entangling force on tab, steal time, icy terrain, sudden storm. Alternative to Entangling force is Chill strike (faster casting), and it's imperative to take 8-10 feat points in oppressor. I can't imagine playing MOD6 without the Sudden Storm adding 4-5 chill and it'll be a great asset.
I got used playing a specific glass canon, but I've no trouble switching to a more supportive role. I can't wait to try new armor LIVe. :}
Anyone knows whether the devs will fix the collision bug on Dragonborn race? I dislike being moved around by players and mobs
True Neutral
Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
0
darthpotaterMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,261Arc User
edited March 2015
Nice job Abaddon, as allways.
Here, take this pic and put it as avatar please.
This mod I dindt test anything so I will come back to the game maybe with 1 or 2 jumps in preview after last patch, and guides like this are really helpful to me.
I am very excited that the dificulty comes back again, and the skill of the CWs will be a must to complete the dungeons, I think that this mod opens a lot of possibilities in builds and playstiles.
Race wise, what is everyone thinking for Mod 6? I'm more PvP side, so it may vary, but from all the discussions I've had with other PvP CWs is that CON doesn't look like it'll be a priority in Mod 6 with all the HP gain from sets (though this may change if the PvP set get's deleted/changed - which is looking likely).
Looking at it, it's going to come down to:
Halfing (PvP only) for the Deflect/CC resist - HOWEVER you don't get to stack INT/CHA
Tiefling - Maximises attack, but lacks any defensive passive ability - PvE still most likely
Dragonborn - Incoming Healing and Power/Crit increases are ok, but gives ability to maximise any 2 stats
Sun Elf - CC Resist and AP gain, with a chance to maximise INT/CHA
Is Sun Elf still the #1 in Mod6? Is Halfing still the #1 CW choice in PvP. Thoughts?
I did some search on the artifact set for mod6. Valindra set will give both control bonus & resist. It will depend on the belt stat but if I wold like it to be Int + Cha.
0
ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
(500,500,450 at legendery and 1000, 1000, 600 at the new max level)
belial's portal stone:
power
life steal
Control bonus
Sphere of Black ice
recovery
life steal
control bonus
rod of imperial restreint
recovery
life steal
control bonus
lostmauth's horn of blasting
power
armor penetration
control bonus
3 of set : Do an additional hit for weapon damage on a critical hit
Shard of Valindra's crown
power
life steal
control bonus
3 of set : Increase control bonus by 15% and control resist by 10%
“He raised his staff. There was a roll of thunder. The sunlight was blotted out from the eastern windows; the whole hall became suddenly dark as night. The fire faded to sullen embers. Only Gandalf could be seen, standing white and tall before the blackened hearth.” ― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Two Towers
I've done some PvE and PvP testing with this build, maybe some optimization may be overlooked and feedback is a nice thing to have (So long as its friendly) but this is how my feat tree is worked at (Encounts these days dont matter how powered now due to overabundance of Power Points) http://nwcalc.com/index.html#/cw?b=1oa5:k6rwk5:8dep:5tb7d,13n0i83:1z00uu0:1uu5u06:1000000&h=0&p=ssm The point of this build is what abbadon is basically trying to achieve, Damage, though Its both PVP/PVE sacrafices were made I.E not going renegade for reliability on procs, plus you wont get much quality through the renegade unless you sacrafice momentum through the extra control through orb and Extra RoF stacks (VERY nice in PvP I tell you) and the ability to keep stacks on the enemy close ranged (probally should of took Reapers touch in reneagde Im mostly a face wizard) but the control is (MAssive) mostly no PvE mobs never reach the team through sheer Icey MAdness that happens when you drop Icy terrain. My setup is as follows for PvE and PvP Sepreately.
PvE: TAB: CoI (Obvious) Disintergrate(Heavy single target for the damage), Icy Terrain( 5 stacks of icy veins plus the additionally within both 15' of the target since the range of this ability is 15' so your a win/win), and finally Steal time, and "Time"less ability to use for all the damage and stuns, if you would like to slot out Disintergrate for sSudden Strom that works too depending on the situation.
PvP: TAB: EITHER Shield/Icy Rays Defense from TR's and CW, or adding 2 stacks plus stuns(Essential for this control build), Disintergrate(Essential, low cooldown, High Damage equals more opportunities to apply 5 stacks of Icy Veins) Entangling force( Gap closer if needed or another CC stun after the intial freeze if you achieved it for all the DPS and CONTROL) and of course Icy Terrain, "Garunteed to make a Character frozen due to 5 stacks plusn the next one freezes the target, very good for capping."
Passives I always Slot Chiling presence,I'll be crazy for not taking what in theory is free damage due to freeze eccentric builds, And I either slot Orb(PVP) or Strom Spell(PvE/PvP) the at-wills are always the same regardless( Main attack PVP) RoF, (Main Attack PvE if enemies are close) Chilling Cloud
This IS mighty effective for control and damage though I sacraficed the capstones I KNOW, but the roll of the CW is Control and Damage, not one or the other, you'll lack in either and die more often than not if you cant sustain and improve, yes you could facetank in renegade/Thaum for PvP/PvE but times you'll just lack the necesary CC to keep the enemy at bay unless you slot EF and Repel and the slotted Icy Veins, but Icy Veins isnt effective unless close so you'll need to have major control to stay safe, unless you have MAJOR tankiness.
Now the other side it's all bout control, control, control, control, little damage bolsters from dealing cold initially and cold overall, or freezing or debuffing there damage by 10%, there good but not amazing as thaum offers reliably, and spell twisting is a very nice touch to keep the cold stacks on PLUS RoF feated to add more chill half the time which is a gap closing changer for the mischievous melee groups. so Pick the ones that matter the most in the build for Control/Damage not all or none at all, it wont work, its only going to be a "Moar damage" Or "Little Moar control but way less damage" so the capstones, yes are not there but did you really relied on them anyway for PvE/PvP? PvP maybe but it procs, not reliable in CC builds, you need Flat boosts and constant pressure.
The enchants are Personal Pref, Vorpal or terror/ plaguefire are very nice to give a dramatic boost in damage and debuffing the tanky melee characters to deal what is essentially free damage because your attacking to add chill meaning you debuffed the Player Character and are now wailing on them due to it helping.
Questions/ Concerns please reply and i'll do my best to answer.
Other options are welcomed if they follow the control/damage build and I'll give my feedback for suggested builds when questioned. Thanks.
Inspiration from abaddon523 where control was our initiative the whole time, we were just blind to see it bloom.
Thank you for posting this. I have recently begun thinking of how to remake my CW for Mod 6 myself.
Do you think Oppressor becomes viable for the reasons that you stated, that CW will have to become more of a positional control class rather than a damage dealer?
I'm switching to Oppressor. But not a 100% Oppressor. I still want to build so that I can do a healthy amount of damage if the situation calls for it. I want to be versatile. In higher level content, like the reworked epic dungeons, I think Oppressors will perform much better than DPS wizards. Not on the Paingiver chart, but on the "we're not getting destroyed" chart. But on other content, like the new zones I still want to be able to do enough damage so that I can clear it efficiently. So I'm working on a build that can do both well. An Oppressor build where I can slot Orb of Imposition and control the battlefield, but one where I can also slide Chilling Presence/Eye of the Storm/Storm Spell in and tear stuff to pieces. I think I've found a sweet spot where I can do both.
The other day I was doing HE's in Dwarven Valley. A GWF, DC, TR and myself as an Oppressor could take down the Chilltooth Invasion HE. I was focused on controlling them, which worked very well (since they have crummy CC resistance...unlike those bleeping Corrupted Polar Bears), but still was able to do ~30k DPS. On the test dummies in Trade of Blades, when I'm not having to time my attacks and can just let it loose, I can do substantially more than that. There's more than one way to skin a cat. As an example, Icy Veins (which puts every enemy near you at 5 chill stacks instantly) plus Chilling Presence is a potent tool to up your damage. When trying to do Heroic Encounters solo I had a lot more success approaching them as an Oppressor trying to control them until they died than I did as a damage dealer trying to kill them as fast as possible.
Choosing Oppressor doesn't mean you're incapable of dealing damage. It just means you're making a trade-off of some damage for more control. How far you want to take that trade-off is up to each CW. I'm just trying to make CW's aware that they will want to consider making some sort of tradeoff for more control, since for the last year plus no such trade-off needed to be considered. I'm betting most CW's will still be stuck in the "nuke em' all" mind-set.
Would love to see your build as I am considering switching from renegade @abaddon523
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romotheoneMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 729Arc User
edited September 2015
@boom782 Icy Veins alone is great for soloing and controlling group content. All you need is a well-placed Icy Terrain. I don't think you need to invest into anything above that if your main focus is not control.
I haven't tried Icy Veins yet but Spell Twisting seems decent. I wish we had a 'test' server so we could switch out powers/feats without having to pay for a respec.
Is Icy Veins useful in dungeons at all or are most mobs immune to the control? Thanks again @romotheone !
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kieranmtornMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 382Arc User
edited September 2015
Not immune, just very resistant. At +60% control bonus, I can control T2 mods with my main. My alt who only has +5%, can't really control them for long enough to matter.
I used Icy Veins initially but found I couldn't maintain as much control as just going for speed & spamming the control spells.
Not immune, just very resistant. At +60% control bonus, I can control T2 mods with my main. My alt who only has +5%, can't really control them for long enough to matter.
I used Icy Veins initially but found I couldn't maintain as much control as just going for speed & spamming the control spells.
Thanks for the input @kieranmtorn . Two questions though. So do you use Spell Twisting instead of Icy Veins then? And do you recommend stuff like Cantankerous mage to help get control bonus up?
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kieranmtornMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 382Arc User
edited September 2015
I use Spell Twisting. Also have the Cantankerous Mage (at Epic). Control bonuses are expensive and a mixed blessing. If I swapped my control gear/pets for DPS gear, my control would drop to 15% but my DPS would probably go up by 50%. So it's a set of trade-offs that each player has to judge.
Comments
Based on current preview testing, soloing as a CW will be tough as most of our control powers require us to be in/close to melee range to be effective. I think range enemies will give us the most trouble along with immune control mobs.
Who knows...it'll be fun to find out!
Abaddon I like your Yoda quote:
As the great Yoda said: "Control, you must learn control."
With module 6 we will need a more balanced Control wizard...
... it's time to bring balance to the force.
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Two Towers
Nah. I got it right.
I believe that devs should increase the HP gain from the armor enchantments, 400 is TOO LOW and I had it during the MOD5. Unless it changes on 4000 I don't see it being a viable end-game content at all.
This goes for all armor enchantments tbh.
Control will be easy, as well. Party - team up with a MOF, entangling force on tab, steal time, icy terrain, sudden storm. Alternative to Entangling force is Chill strike (faster casting), and it's imperative to take 8-10 feat points in oppressor. I can't imagine playing MOD6 without the Sudden Storm adding 4-5 chill and it'll be a great asset.
I got used playing a specific glass canon, but I've no trouble switching to a more supportive role. I can't wait to try new armor LIVe. :}
Anyone knows whether the devs will fix the collision bug on Dragonborn race? I dislike being moved around by players and mobs
Here, take this pic and put it as avatar please.
This mod I dindt test anything so I will come back to the game maybe with 1 or 2 jumps in preview after last patch, and guides like this are really helpful to me.
I am very excited that the dificulty comes back again, and the skill of the CWs will be a must to complete the dungeons, I think that this mod opens a lot of possibilities in builds and playstiles.
Caturday Survivor
Elemental Evil Survivor
Undermontain Survivor
Mod20 Combat rework Survivor
Mod22 Refinement rework Survivor
Looking at it, it's going to come down to:
Halfing (PvP only) for the Deflect/CC resist - HOWEVER you don't get to stack INT/CHA
Tiefling - Maximises attack, but lacks any defensive passive ability - PvE still most likely
Dragonborn - Incoming Healing and Power/Crit increases are ok, but gives ability to maximise any 2 stats
Sun Elf - CC Resist and AP gain, with a chance to maximise INT/CHA
Is Sun Elf still the #1 in Mod6? Is Halfing still the #1 CW choice in PvP. Thoughts?
But I know that control is always important, maybe more than before. In PvE, I would have say to put some point in WIS but I really don't know in PvP.
As for race choice, I don't why it should change.
I can slot a pet with a passive for +25% and another with +15%. Or get a boon for 10/12.5/15%.
Versus trying to get more critical strike or combat advantage bonus? That's tough. There isn't a single pet or boon that gives +critical strike %
I did some search on the artifact set for mod6. Valindra set will give both control bonus & resist. It will depend on the belt stat but if I wold like it to be Int + Cha.
(500,500,450 at legendery and 1000, 1000, 600 at the new max level)
belial's portal stone:
power
life steal
Control bonus
Sphere of Black ice
recovery
life steal
control bonus
rod of imperial restreint
recovery
life steal
control bonus
lostmauth's horn of blasting
power
armor penetration
control bonus
3 of set : Do an additional hit for weapon damage on a critical hit
Shard of Valindra's crown
power
life steal
control bonus
3 of set : Increase control bonus by 15% and control resist by 10%
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Two Towers
I'll still call in PT SW fury to spam TT, DC to debuff, GF to debuff and a GWF to collect mobs in a swift half-circle run.
PvE: TAB: CoI (Obvious) Disintergrate(Heavy single target for the damage), Icy Terrain( 5 stacks of icy veins plus the additionally within both 15' of the target since the range of this ability is 15' so your a win/win), and finally Steal time, and "Time"less ability to use for all the damage and stuns, if you would like to slot out Disintergrate for sSudden Strom that works too depending on the situation.
PvP: TAB: EITHER Shield/Icy Rays Defense from TR's and CW, or adding 2 stacks plus stuns(Essential for this control build), Disintergrate(Essential, low cooldown, High Damage equals more opportunities to apply 5 stacks of Icy Veins) Entangling force( Gap closer if needed or another CC stun after the intial freeze if you achieved it for all the DPS and CONTROL) and of course Icy Terrain, "Garunteed to make a Character frozen due to 5 stacks plusn the next one freezes the target, very good for capping."
Passives I always Slot Chiling presence,I'll be crazy for not taking what in theory is free damage due to freeze eccentric builds, And I either slot Orb(PVP) or Strom Spell(PvE/PvP) the at-wills are always the same regardless( Main attack PVP) RoF, (Main Attack PvE if enemies are close) Chilling Cloud
This IS mighty effective for control and damage though I sacraficed the capstones I KNOW, but the roll of the CW is Control and Damage, not one or the other, you'll lack in either and die more often than not if you cant sustain and improve, yes you could facetank in renegade/Thaum for PvP/PvE but times you'll just lack the necesary CC to keep the enemy at bay unless you slot EF and Repel and the slotted Icy Veins, but Icy Veins isnt effective unless close so you'll need to have major control to stay safe, unless you have MAJOR tankiness.
Now the other side it's all bout control, control, control, control, little damage bolsters from dealing cold initially and cold overall, or freezing or debuffing there damage by 10%, there good but not amazing as thaum offers reliably, and spell twisting is a very nice touch to keep the cold stacks on PLUS RoF feated to add more chill half the time which is a gap closing changer for the mischievous melee groups. so Pick the ones that matter the most in the build for Control/Damage not all or none at all, it wont work, its only going to be a "Moar damage" Or "Little Moar control but way less damage" so the capstones, yes are not there but did you really relied on them anyway for PvE/PvP? PvP maybe but it procs, not reliable in CC builds, you need Flat boosts and constant pressure.
The enchants are Personal Pref, Vorpal or terror/ plaguefire are very nice to give a dramatic boost in damage and debuffing the tanky melee characters to deal what is essentially free damage because your attacking to add chill meaning you debuffed the Player Character and are now wailing on them due to it helping.
Questions/ Concerns please reply and i'll do my best to answer.
Other options are welcomed if they follow the control/damage build and I'll give my feedback for suggested builds when questioned. Thanks.
Inspiration from abaddon523 where control was our initiative the whole time, we were just blind to see it bloom.
~Chymera WitherSpell CW 70
I'm switching to Oppressor. But not a 100% Oppressor. I still want to build so that I can do a healthy amount of damage if the situation calls for it. I want to be versatile. In higher level content, like the reworked epic dungeons, I think Oppressors will perform much better than DPS wizards. Not on the Paingiver chart, but on the "we're not getting destroyed" chart. But on other content, like the new zones I still want to be able to do enough damage so that I can clear it efficiently. So I'm working on a build that can do both well. An Oppressor build where I can slot Orb of Imposition and control the battlefield, but one where I can also slide Chilling Presence/Eye of the Storm/Storm Spell in and tear stuff to pieces. I think I've found a sweet spot where I can do both.
The other day I was doing HE's in Dwarven Valley. A GWF, DC, TR and myself as an Oppressor could take down the Chilltooth Invasion HE. I was focused on controlling them, which worked very well (since they have crummy CC resistance...unlike those bleeping Corrupted Polar Bears), but still was able to do ~30k DPS. On the test dummies in Trade of Blades, when I'm not having to time my attacks and can just let it loose, I can do substantially more than that. There's more than one way to skin a cat. As an example, Icy Veins (which puts every enemy near you at 5 chill stacks instantly) plus Chilling Presence is a potent tool to up your damage. When trying to do Heroic Encounters solo I had a lot more success approaching them as an Oppressor trying to control them until they died than I did as a damage dealer trying to kill them as fast as possible.
Choosing Oppressor doesn't mean you're incapable of dealing damage. It just means you're making a trade-off of some damage for more control. How far you want to take that trade-off is up to each CW. I'm just trying to make CW's aware that they will want to consider making some sort of tradeoff for more control, since for the last year plus no such trade-off needed to be considered. I'm betting most CW's will still be stuck in the "nuke em' all" mind-set.
Would love to see your build as I am considering switching from renegade @abaddon523
Is Icy Veins useful in dungeons at all or are most mobs immune to the control? Thanks again @romotheone !
I used Icy Veins initially but found I couldn't maintain as much control as just going for speed & spamming the control spells.