If a 14k TR can burst down a 21k GF in a matter of seconds, I don't even see how a squishy class can stand to this.
I think the most ironic part of this statement is that it's only referencing one paragon path, one build, and one basic stat distribution.
And yet all we see are across-the-board nerfs to every aspect of TR.
>balance
Broken mechanics, broken class designs, lack of actual content, and over zealous, bronze-age moderation?
How do I defend against multiple, broken, SOD procs? Kthxbye
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
I am a TR and I don't think there is a way to fight GF even with initial Lashing Blade from stealth.
Lash Blade is silly. My suggestion is to use ranged combat. If you approached GF with Duelist Flurish most like he will break you kneecap. But versus TR he's just a big health bar, so you need to wear him down. Use Cloud of Steel and try to move behind him. You may try to roll "thought" him to reach his back fast. In this case do a roll diagonally from his side, which will force hem to change facing, and then sidestep to reach his back. Or use Deft Strike. Also you may try to use Impact Shot, Path of Blades or Wicked Reminder.
Anyway it's just a question of time. Personally, I usually annoy GF, so someone comes to help him with me, and then I hold them both on a pnode, while my team-mates has a space to capture and hold other nodes.
lol the thread is about " How to fight a TR" but
since there are no real good comments or tips about the topic its ok that you start to give tips for TR´s how to kill a GF...
please close this topic
I am a TR and I don't think there is a way to fight GF even with initial Lashing Blade from stealth.
In most situation, need to take 2-3 players to kill one GF. Remember pvp is not 'who kill the most' win, one GF can easily occupy one portal and holding against 1-2 players.
Look, if you think people are picking on TRs a little bit, that's because we are. TRs are clearly on top in PVP right now and so that's why they are getting most of the attention.
They are easy mode, they are rough sauce, and they need balanced- at least execs and sabs. But it being, what it is, I think it is almost manageable. The game being domination and not kill/death ratio, I would love to see more requests for how to best manage opposing tr's to acheive a domination win rather than "how to beat the tr".
all my humble opinion.
Well, with all due respect, to a first approximation, your probability of winning a match depends on the number of TRs on your team vs. the number of TRs on the other team. From my own experience, in this mod, I have never won a match when my team had fewer TRs than the other team.
But your other points are valid, I think, don't stand next to your teammates and always move around.
I see some players jumping all the time. I have never understood this. Is this the reason why?
Remove the dazing and and tune down crit in stealth and they are fine. Stealth revealing should be removed too. The old TR with damage tuned up should be pretty nice.
Remove the dazing and and tune down crit in stealth and they are fine. Stealth revealing should be removed too. The old TR with damage tuned up should be pretty nice.
removing the class would be better tho, imagine a pvp without a TR............... oh the joys!
Well, with all due respect, to a first approximation, your probability of winning a match depends on the number of TRs on your team vs. the number of TRs on the other team. From my own experience, in this mod, I have never won a match when my team had fewer TRs than the other team.
But your other points are valid, I think, don't stand next to your teammates and always move around.
Well new/low skilled TRs are easyish to beat imo. If a tr is not in stealth or itc it can be bursted down pretty quick and less skilled players will be in stealth/itc less. I am not sure it comes down to how many TRs are on a team but how good the trs are. I know its an excuse for losing, "well their tr was better". I think there are more poor trs than good ones. And ya when I check the teams before the match if the other team has more trs the odds are against me. Next check if theres time is gs. But 3 good trs on a team makes a really really tough opponent.
I see some players jumping all the time. I have never understood this. Is this the reason why?
Jumping can make it more difficult to target the jumper.
I almost wish neverwinter had some madden-like moves where you could spin around and stiff arm people, dive, so on. Dodge is kind of like that for some classes but movement is such a huge part of pvp in this action combat game that it would just be cool.
Well new/low skilled TRs are easyish to beat imo. If a tr is not in stealth or itc it can be bursted down pretty quick and less skilled players will be in stealth/itc less. I am not sure it comes down to how many TRs are on a team but how good the trs are. I know its an excuse for losing, "well their tr was better". I think there are more poor trs than good ones. And ya when I check the teams before the match if the other team has more trs the odds are against me. Next check if theres time is gs. But 3 good trs on a team makes a really really tough opponent.
Oh come on. Even new TRs understand the importance of stealth. You have to be an absolutely terrible TR to not even use stealth, and you won't find too many of those around.
Hi OP.
My feedback for some tips as devoted cleric, and i have seen in my matches are these:
Vs Scoundrel and Executioner rogue.
There are 2 types of these rogues and 1 other of executioner rogue.
Scoundrel and executioner rogue who play permastealth don't deal much damage. They use the same encounters that refill stealth and dont consume stealth. The only damage is given by the dagger that refills stealth. Their strategy is to be permastealthed until their AP is refilled and use shocking execution. This is when u have to calculate in less than 1 second after hearing the sound emitted by shocking execution to shift it so u dodge it and repeat the same thing. Except if u are Warlock or great weapon figther, either that daily kill u or leaves u with low HP (and if a pemar executioner was who hit) then u will die after Shadow of demise strikes. For everyone, have ur lifesteal high, so when either of these styles leave the dummy, u can regenerate ur hp by life stealing with ur attacks to it. (healers will not have a problem).
The executioner rogue that is holder of lashing blade is very predictable.
1. dont stay on mounts when taking nodes, even if u are with someone or alone. Most of rogues think they are god and will go to the enemy's node and hold team there. they will land lashing blade and leaving u prone so its a free kill. U have to calculate the time a rogue will get there. stay alert and after or less than 10 secs, start using dodges (so u gotta have stamina regeneration), because a rogue will go with lashing blades or the smoke bomb.
Oh come on. Even new TRs understand the importance of stealth. You have to be an absolutely terrible TR to not even use stealth, and you won't find too many of those around.
Did I say the new/unskilled player never uses stealth? No. I said you can catch them out of stealth. They are not as smart about maintaining the stealth bar and when to go into and out of stealth. Stealth is not 100% all the time absolute. A good tr manages his stealth so he is in it at the right times. A bad tr has a low or depleted stealth bar when he needs it. That is a mistake. New/unskilled players make more mistakes than experienced/skilled players. I am explaining the same thing many times in a row.
0
icyphishMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,255Arc User
Did I say the new/unskilled player never uses stealth? No. I said you can catch them out of stealth. They are not as smart about maintaining the stealth bar and when to go into and out of stealth. Stealth is not 100% all the time absolute. A good tr manages his stealth so he is in it at the right times. A bad tr has a low or depleted stealth bar when he needs it. That is a mistake. New/unskilled players make more mistakes than experienced/skilled players. I am explaining the same thing many times in a row.
Clearly nobody cares about bad TRs, the only reason ppl complain is either the GOOD TR or WELL-GEARED TR.
Good TR = They can play really well, even with adaquet gears they can outperform people with the similar GS, including opponent from their own class.
Well-Geared TR = Sometimes u can't tell if they are too skillful, cus most of them have the ability to kill you in ONE SHOT. I was a 50K HP build, and still can't survive one single hit, so I guess other classes has even lesser chance. This does not require skill, just need to time when to HIT the one-hit-wonder button, and with them being perm stealth, this makes it a super easy task :O
Oh and of course, there are GOOD + Well Geared TR, but as of right now, we can't tell much difference, cus they still kill you in one blow anyway. :O
It will take 2 skilled BIS players who are coordinated and sometimes they still lose.
...with current level of AP gains, IMO.
I've seen the video as well, and frankly my opinion is that it was impossible without being able to spam 7 x BB in under 3 minutes. There were a lot of moments where the TR player was in real danger of being defeated, with significant amount of time spent under 30~40% HP as well. But in each of those moments, the timely recharge of AP, BB spamming with piercing damage (the video, as I recall, was made before the changes), and subsequent reset of all recharge times for major encounters, became the lifeline.
....
Of course, nowadays, with the SoD multi-proc bug in place, Execs might actually be able to pull it off easier by making a 2v1 into a 1v1 within the first few sconds of the fight with the broken OP SE...
match begins
-> SigDiv for full AP
-> go back node
-> two BiS level defenders show up
-> 1-shot one of them, get the "2nd SE" effect
-> 2nd SE the other one for like 60~70% HP
-> fight for a while
-> full AP again thanks to cloak, SE the 2nd guy to oblivion
...but then again I'm hardly an expert in Exec tactics, so maybe this is more difficult than it sounds.
lol playing exec has never been difficult this mod. just use bait and switch and pewpewpewpew behold my sk1llzz!
Does seem like it.
As a TR, I'd honestly say the changes to SE was a bad call... and the problems to SoD double proccing should have been addressed. Instead, SoD just took a fluctuating rollercoaster of OP to useless to OP again.
I sincerely think they should have risked just dumping the 'extra piercing damage' concept and should have changed it to something else. In my case I've presented a suggestion to the devs to switch it into a powerful buff/debuff, instead of add more piercing damage on top of a build/path that already hits too hard... and now, on top that extra damage, it replicates itself through bug exploits...
...AND on top of that, add in the universal threat of TR daily spamming with abnormal AP gains.. and ...
when a TR first dazes you with Smoke Bomb, your initial impulse is to try to walk backwards out of the daze.
Why "first?" Of course the TR will hit first. And no, our impulse is not to try and go out. That may have been our impulse in Beta, or in other games. Here our impulse is to go AFK bio while the campfire cinematics takes place.
Who do you you think you're fooling by posting alleged beat-a-TR strategies?
Clearly nobody cares about bad TRs, the only reason ppl complain is either the GOOD TR or WELL-GEARED TR.
Good TR = They can play really well, even with adaquet gears they can outperform people with the similar GS, including opponent from their own class.
Well-Geared TR = Sometimes u can't tell if they are too skillful, cus most of them have the ability to kill you in ONE SHOT. I was a 50K HP build, and still can't survive one single hit, so I guess other classes has even lesser chance. This does not require skill, just need to time when to HIT the one-hit-wonder button, and with them being perm stealth, this makes it a super easy task :O
Oh and of course, there are GOOD + Well Geared TR, but as of right now, we can't tell much difference, cus they still kill you in one blow anyway. :O
I know a wrote a response to this, don't know were it went.
Even the best geared tr who is a bad player is not in stealth or itc at the right times. It is an easy class to beat when it is vulnerable and when a tr is not in stealth or itc it is vulnerable. A tr is most vulnerable when it attacks another player from stealth. Which is why you literally watch the backs of your team mates, expecting a tr to strike. It is not like they are some mystery force that occasionally strikes people down from the ether and we don't hear from them again. They are there every game and they have a very predictable pattern.
A really skilled tr in really good gear is god-mode, a crappy tr in any gear is just a player playing pvp in easy mode and can be beaten/nullified.
Again it is domination not "kill the most/not die the most". There are a million ways to force an unskilled player to make mistakes which will cost his team the match, regardless of gear.
Let people find out on their own what works best vs classes.
We don't need EASY buttons that people can copy and paste.
If players cannot be creative then after you teach them cookie cutter ways to counter, tr will just make new attacks and the cycle begins again.
They never should have added the 2 second reveal on TR and 90% of TR would not be set to perma daze / one hit wonder.
(obviously)
Generay Id agree with you. But as long as TRs have unavoidable via sprint, DR ignoring single target hits which proc either more unavoidable, DR ignoring damage or an unmitigable CC, we have a problem.
PS: There is nothing creative about droppin' a SE and killing somebody with it, nor droppin' a BB and enjoyin' cooldown reductions since AP are so easy to build these days. These are broken mechanics that give clear and unbreachable advantage to a class, so the players of said class go crazy and cash in for zen.. The cycle will end, like all things do
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
You already lost all your credibility on these forums due your own lack of knowledge on TR-class (your main class, BTW), so, you should just stay low and let us, players whose understand the game, talk about it while you keep trolling powries in Sharandar.
BTW, not taking into this matter a lot of videos here showing how a Exec TR can one shot tanks with more than 40k HP, not just due SE, but with LB too or, as my last TR build: Perma SoD build but also when i asked you that, if are not LB/SE + First Strike + Piercing damage + power buffs and so on, which are the mechanics what are making the TR that powerful even to kill tanks in one shot... hope you do not say, again, Shadow Strike and "stealth" as Mirror said some time ago...
The thing is clonky, you have this very absurd way of twisting words and pulling meanings out of context and then try to preach to TR players about stuff we already know about. By the sounds of how you're mentioning - and dragging - me into this little feud of yours again I'd wager you didn't understand half of what went down in the last "SS" discussion.
I'd love to further "EDUCATE" you on what it means to be free to use SS from stealth, but that would then take us back to the fruitless circle of me having to explain to you the entire context of the last discussion we had, where you simply couldn't understand up to the last moment, and kept insulting me and other TRs by rambling about things we already knew of long before you ever did.
...
Being TRs, we already know all the broken stuff with Exec builds, feats, bugs and exploits. We were the first ones to warn against it during the preview days long before you've actually met mod5 TRs in the field, and whatever stuff we talk about that you don't seem to understand has nothing to do with 'protecting broken stuff', as you tirelessly misunderstand.
...
I could also introduce you a nice clinical help in treating PTSD, since the attitude you're treating other TR players -- despite our best intentions to keep things civil -- makes people wonder just how much of mental damage you've received from us TRs.
Comments
I think the most ironic part of this statement is that it's only referencing one paragon path, one build, and one basic stat distribution.
And yet all we see are across-the-board nerfs to every aspect of TR.
>balance
Go Cryptic!
PS - I quit.
Lash Blade is silly. My suggestion is to use ranged combat. If you approached GF with Duelist Flurish most like he will break you kneecap. But versus TR he's just a big health bar, so you need to wear him down. Use Cloud of Steel and try to move behind him. You may try to roll "thought" him to reach his back fast. In this case do a roll diagonally from his side, which will force hem to change facing, and then sidestep to reach his back. Or use Deft Strike. Also you may try to use Impact Shot, Path of Blades or Wicked Reminder.
Anyway it's just a question of time. Personally, I usually annoy GF, so someone comes to help him with me, and then I hold them both on a pnode, while my team-mates has a space to capture and hold other nodes.
since there are no real good comments or tips about the topic its ok that you start to give tips for TR´s how to kill a GF...
please close this topic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hkRVUBWvDs&feature=youtu.be
Cryptik- How long are you going to tolerate that the 25k GS GWF must run like chicken before 12k TR?
Look, if you think people are picking on TRs a little bit, that's because we are. TRs are clearly on top in PVP right now and so that's why they are getting most of the attention.
Well, with all due respect, to a first approximation, your probability of winning a match depends on the number of TRs on your team vs. the number of TRs on the other team. From my own experience, in this mod, I have never won a match when my team had fewer TRs than the other team.
But your other points are valid, I think, don't stand next to your teammates and always move around.
I see some players jumping all the time. I have never understood this. Is this the reason why?
removing the class would be better tho, imagine a pvp without a TR............... oh the joys!
Well new/low skilled TRs are easyish to beat imo. If a tr is not in stealth or itc it can be bursted down pretty quick and less skilled players will be in stealth/itc less. I am not sure it comes down to how many TRs are on a team but how good the trs are. I know its an excuse for losing, "well their tr was better". I think there are more poor trs than good ones. And ya when I check the teams before the match if the other team has more trs the odds are against me. Next check if theres time is gs. But 3 good trs on a team makes a really really tough opponent.
Jumping can make it more difficult to target the jumper.
I almost wish neverwinter had some madden-like moves where you could spin around and stiff arm people, dive, so on. Dodge is kind of like that for some classes but movement is such a huge part of pvp in this action combat game that it would just be cool.
Oh come on. Even new TRs understand the importance of stealth. You have to be an absolutely terrible TR to not even use stealth, and you won't find too many of those around.
My feedback for some tips as devoted cleric, and i have seen in my matches are these:
Vs Scoundrel and Executioner rogue.
There are 2 types of these rogues and 1 other of executioner rogue.
Scoundrel and executioner rogue who play permastealth don't deal much damage. They use the same encounters that refill stealth and dont consume stealth. The only damage is given by the dagger that refills stealth. Their strategy is to be permastealthed until their AP is refilled and use shocking execution. This is when u have to calculate in less than 1 second after hearing the sound emitted by shocking execution to shift it so u dodge it and repeat the same thing. Except if u are Warlock or great weapon figther, either that daily kill u or leaves u with low HP (and if a pemar executioner was who hit) then u will die after Shadow of demise strikes. For everyone, have ur lifesteal high, so when either of these styles leave the dummy, u can regenerate ur hp by life stealing with ur attacks to it. (healers will not have a problem).
The executioner rogue that is holder of lashing blade is very predictable.
1. dont stay on mounts when taking nodes, even if u are with someone or alone. Most of rogues think they are god and will go to the enemy's node and hold team there. they will land lashing blade and leaving u prone so its a free kill. U have to calculate the time a rogue will get there. stay alert and after or less than 10 secs, start using dodges (so u gotta have stamina regeneration), because a rogue will go with lashing blades or the smoke bomb.
Did I say the new/unskilled player never uses stealth? No. I said you can catch them out of stealth. They are not as smart about maintaining the stealth bar and when to go into and out of stealth. Stealth is not 100% all the time absolute. A good tr manages his stealth so he is in it at the right times. A bad tr has a low or depleted stealth bar when he needs it. That is a mistake. New/unskilled players make more mistakes than experienced/skilled players. I am explaining the same thing many times in a row.
Clearly nobody cares about bad TRs, the only reason ppl complain is either the GOOD TR or WELL-GEARED TR.
Good TR = They can play really well, even with adaquet gears they can outperform people with the similar GS, including opponent from their own class.
Well-Geared TR = Sometimes u can't tell if they are too skillful, cus most of them have the ability to kill you in ONE SHOT. I was a 50K HP build, and still can't survive one single hit, so I guess other classes has even lesser chance. This does not require skill, just need to time when to HIT the one-hit-wonder button, and with them being perm stealth, this makes it a super easy task :O
Oh and of course, there are GOOD + Well Geared TR, but as of right now, we can't tell much difference, cus they still kill you in one blow anyway. :O
Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
It will take 2 skilled BIS players who are coordinated and sometimes they still lose.
nuff said.
I have 50% deflect and it's almost as if it does nothing now.
...with current level of AP gains, IMO.
I've seen the video as well, and frankly my opinion is that it was impossible without being able to spam 7 x BB in under 3 minutes. There were a lot of moments where the TR player was in real danger of being defeated, with significant amount of time spent under 30~40% HP as well. But in each of those moments, the timely recharge of AP, BB spamming with piercing damage (the video, as I recall, was made before the changes), and subsequent reset of all recharge times for major encounters, became the lifeline.
....
Of course, nowadays, with the SoD multi-proc bug in place, Execs might actually be able to pull it off easier by making a 2v1 into a 1v1 within the first few sconds of the fight with the broken OP SE...
match begins
-> SigDiv for full AP
-> go back node
-> two BiS level defenders show up
-> 1-shot one of them, get the "2nd SE" effect
-> 2nd SE the other one for like 60~70% HP
-> fight for a while
-> full AP again thanks to cloak, SE the 2nd guy to oblivion
...but then again I'm hardly an expert in Exec tactics, so maybe this is more difficult than it sounds.
lol playing exec has never been difficult this mod. just use bait and switch and pewpewpewpew behold my sk1llzz!
Does seem like it.
As a TR, I'd honestly say the changes to SE was a bad call... and the problems to SoD double proccing should have been addressed. Instead, SoD just took a fluctuating rollercoaster of OP to useless to OP again.
I sincerely think they should have risked just dumping the 'extra piercing damage' concept and should have changed it to something else. In my case I've presented a suggestion to the devs to switch it into a powerful buff/debuff, instead of add more piercing damage on top of a build/path that already hits too hard... and now, on top that extra damage, it replicates itself through bug exploits...
...AND on top of that, add in the universal threat of TR daily spamming with abnormal AP gains.. and ...
well, everyone gets the picture.
Why "first?" Of course the TR will hit first. And no, our impulse is not to try and go out. That may have been our impulse in Beta, or in other games. Here our impulse is to go AFK bio while the campfire cinematics takes place.
Who do you you think you're fooling by posting alleged beat-a-TR strategies?
I know a wrote a response to this, don't know were it went.
Even the best geared tr who is a bad player is not in stealth or itc at the right times. It is an easy class to beat when it is vulnerable and when a tr is not in stealth or itc it is vulnerable. A tr is most vulnerable when it attacks another player from stealth. Which is why you literally watch the backs of your team mates, expecting a tr to strike. It is not like they are some mystery force that occasionally strikes people down from the ether and we don't hear from them again. They are there every game and they have a very predictable pattern.
A really skilled tr in really good gear is god-mode, a crappy tr in any gear is just a player playing pvp in easy mode and can be beaten/nullified.
Again it is domination not "kill the most/not die the most". There are a million ways to force an unskilled player to make mistakes which will cost his team the match, regardless of gear.
Generay Id agree with you. But as long as TRs have unavoidable via sprint, DR ignoring single target hits which proc either more unavoidable, DR ignoring damage or an unmitigable CC, we have a problem.
PS: There is nothing creative about droppin' a SE and killing somebody with it, nor droppin' a BB and enjoyin' cooldown reductions since AP are so easy to build these days. These are broken mechanics that give clear and unbreachable advantage to a class, so the players of said class go crazy and cash in for zen.. The cycle will end, like all things do
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
The thing is clonky, you have this very absurd way of twisting words and pulling meanings out of context and then try to preach to TR players about stuff we already know about. By the sounds of how you're mentioning - and dragging - me into this little feud of yours again I'd wager you didn't understand half of what went down in the last "SS" discussion.
I'd love to further "EDUCATE" you on what it means to be free to use SS from stealth, but that would then take us back to the fruitless circle of me having to explain to you the entire context of the last discussion we had, where you simply couldn't understand up to the last moment, and kept insulting me and other TRs by rambling about things we already knew of long before you ever did.
...
Being TRs, we already know all the broken stuff with Exec builds, feats, bugs and exploits. We were the first ones to warn against it during the preview days long before you've actually met mod5 TRs in the field, and whatever stuff we talk about that you don't seem to understand has nothing to do with 'protecting broken stuff', as you tirelessly misunderstand.
...
I could also introduce you a nice clinical help in treating PTSD, since the attitude you're treating other TR players -- despite our best intentions to keep things civil -- makes people wonder just how much of mental damage you've received from us TRs.
I wish you well. Get better, plz.