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Paladin Tanks vs Guardian Tanks
forponie
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 4 Arc User
Just out of curiosity is anybody else having second thoughts about the possibillity of the (possibly) better adapted Tank build paladins just shoving protection build GF's out of the way?
Or am I missing the bigger picture here?
Or am I missing the bigger picture here?
Post edited by forponie on
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BUT
Even if that thing will happen, devs will surelly cut it, cause losing TWO classes in favor of a hybreed class is kinda waste of logical behavior.
So OP will never (hope so) make DC's and GF's useless.
No they won't. Developers already said this, but they were very careful when working on the pally.
Devoted paladin will play differently than DC and so, same goes to protection paladin.
Here is the thing, DCs can mitigate the damage dramatically, heal group, buff, debuff and also inflict massive damage. DC can perform all of that almost instantaneously with ease, and divinity gives them perfect flexibility. Healing spec paladin in other hand.. they have to position themselves correctly and constantly move around and requires strategy. It's just totally different. I'm not saying DCs are super easy, but different mechanic comes with different plan. You will see once preview server become available.. I think Monday?
With no way to heal yourself during combat as both gf and gwf due to the extream change to life steal (as it stands now) the only case I see now that allow a gwf or gf in the party is when you have a dc and a tank.
If you go for a dps cc party I dont see what value a gwf or gf could bring compared to a paladin due to healing during combat and to some extent what seam to be better utilitys even if kv is very good.
One thing's for sure, though. Banishment will play a LARGE role for PVE Pallies, depending on the target cap of the encounter. I'm hoping it's a large AoE without a target cap. Would be so fun to play.
Paladin will be both main and secondary tank. He's got aoe hard taunts, at will hard taunt, heals (yes, even tank pala has heals. Namely shift, tab mechanics as well as certain dailies that synergize with their insane AP gain), buffs. And let's not forget the 500% threat generation from choosing paragon alone. That's like 100%+ more than GF with mark with everything set for threat generation.
Thus, paladin is better at everything that GF can do and more.
This paladin I have seen in preview is 100% better than dc and gf...
Paladin= super heal + tank + debuff and dmg.
Taylor DC/DO & AC Buff/Debuff - Guild Gutbusters Brigade - PVE
Except not all at once.
Tanky palas can't heal.
Healy palas can't damage.
Both are hard to crack and so should be for having no offensive paragon or even encounter set(all encounters are utility one way or another, damage seems just a small bonus to that).
Wrong. Tanky palas can heal. And healy palas can damage.
Shift +TAB mechanics are more than capable to sustain tank Pala and provide some minor heals to party. So can dailies, that can heal ally to full or give you 100% temp hp. And with tier 1 heroic feat maxed and divine call spam a pala can get daily ready in half a minute or faster.
Healer palas can't deal as much damage as their tank counterparts but take a look at aura of courage feature. All it needs is high HP and you will dish out insane damage. Of course, it boosts your allies too. So you won't beat them in dps ever. But for solo content that's more than enough to wreck everything appart.
With its daily it can replicate KV for 15 sec it has amazing auras and gives better dmg buffs to the party then my GF!
Maybe its tanking capability is not that good but seems to have better bard like buffs!
Also the DOOM!!11!! idea that Pally's that literally just came out and are being bugged fixed and balanced right now will end up on live in exactly this same form is a bit pathetic. Third, GFs have been the go to tank for quite a while now, and the fact that pally's may be slightly better in certain aspects doesn't make the GFs suddenly horrible tanks and worthless. Only the most min/maxer of min/maxer will care. Most "normal" will simply care if you can fill the tank role in a dungeon... and how well you play your character.
That last part will be telling in the extreme. GFs are great tanks... but the player can make it suck. And a great played GF... even if Pally's went live today as they are... will out tank a average played Pally. A bit of the "OMG my GF will become obsolete" is simply a matter that you need to learn2play your class better and stop relying on the fact that basically you were the only tank in town. So in this aspect the competition will be good for you.
But before we cry DOOM!!!1! and that the sky is falling on GFs lets see how Pally's shake out in the next couple of weeks on the balance and see how they go live.
Zvieris, you are becoming more and more annoying. We've only seen a fraction of the paladin on preview. We have no idea how the finished class will look on live once Mod 6 releases. We've no idea how mod 6 will feel, no idea how the other classes will feel. And you move around every OP thread claiming he is op. Werent you a GWF player, whats with the GF concerns? Here's a hint from someone who actually has both a GWF and a GF at high gear levels - KV and ITF alone cement the GF's spot in any legit team. If you're playing with exploiters who want speed runs and class stacking you will reap what you sow.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
DEv's makes Pally so awesome to attract ppl to pay. They dont care, that all GF's are pissed off and gives us some "it's not finished, all be fine" IT WON'T ! they will **** screw to the ground GF's. Soooo iritating, that they don't listen us.
.Suicide Squad.
When he will come out, then it will be to late for discussing or anything.
Average time of fixing bugs/balancing of classes for Cryptic is about 1 year till never. We have to point out all stupid ideas of dev's NOW. Not later.
.Suicide Squad.
Of course calling them stupid won't make them listen... Try to give constructive feedback, that might help, and you'll do something useful with your time.
There were a lot of people saying SW would make CW useless for marketing purpose, but it didn't.
I enjoy playing my gwf as a secondary tank. Thus GF concerns are my concerns as well. I also play both classes and from testing paladin I can clearly say that paladin beats them both in nearly everything. You got a problem with that? Or do you want everyone to shut up and have another disaster like the TR revamp? So I suggest you suck it up and let others provide feedback the way they see fit.
No need to bring the rogues here as they will still destroy all of our "tanks" in pvp if they remain unchanged. From my own testing so far I dont find the paladin too strong. He is doing what he's supposed to do and the feedback we give should be centered around that. We are not talking class balance here, we are testing a bug-ridden alpha version of a new class. As for balance, it doesnt exist. On Live 12-15k Rogues are making my 24k GWF talk to himself and they will humiliate the pala as well. What I see from you in particular looks very much like lobbying for a nerf before the class is even fully fleshed out and frankly it makes no sense at this point.
PS: Lets say a Tank Pala takes aggro with his great threat gen so what ? Can he kill the mobs he just gathered ? Id wager my Sentinel will be much better in dropping the mobs the pala gathered than the pala himself. I see no problem here, the tank herds the offtank and dps people clean up. Whats your gripe again ?
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Then tell me, how does it make sense for a class to have 500% threat generation without even choosing any feats or slotting features/powers? Moreover, how does it make sense for such class to have hard taunts as well?A spammable aoe taunt on Tab, at-will and a few encounters. That will definitelly destroy GF and sentinel GWF as tanks since they don't have that huge threat generation from thin air and they have zero hard taunts. That's my main concern.
Another is that tank Paladin is able to dish out comparable or even better damage to that of GF, have a ton of buffs and still able to heal.That makes him a much better tank than GF. And hey, if he's that strong without paragon feats then what will happen when he gets them? He'll be another God class like TR and DC are.
Yet you question my concerns of the class design. I don't get you.
Dude, even if the Paladin 'steals' every bit of aggro on a party which also has a GF, so what ? You wanna tank, turn KV on and enjoy being the protector. And dont even talk about Senties and aggro. The strongest Intimidation Sents cant take aggro away from CWs, SWs and even DCs nowadays and must spend sprint to chase mobs in order to damage them. Your points in regard of the OP are void man, sorry to say, the paladin is not the epitome of whats wrong with this game
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
From LvLs 1 to 49 Tank Paladin dmg is just right But once you hit 50 and get aura of radiance there AoE/DoT dmg and threat generation hits ludicrous LvLs AoR is basicaly a Pulsing 30m AoE tant that dose massive dmg every 3 seconds mines hits for well over 1k a tik atm at lvl 59. I am most certainly going to say that he can do dmg only a GF can dream of and though i hate to agree with Zvel but i mite just have to.
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Yep, and they havent implemented DPS tree yet...
Sentinels should be able to get aggro from CW, but they cant. Is this right?
So what? Why would any party need a tank paladin and a gf in the first place? They will choose one and paladin is always the better choice. He can reliably tank groups of monsters as well as boss and provide buffs and heals at the same time. Whereas GF will only act as a buff bot.
And you saying that GWF can't steal aggro from dps classes is true. That doesnt mean it should be this way. GWF has threat generation feats so why does he has them if every class can easily steal aggro from him?
I'm concerned that you have no idea what you're advocating fo. GWF not being able to aggro is fine to you and Paladin stealing every bit of aggro is fine to you too. Wtf is wrong with you?
Indeed both points are fine with me. I got no problem there. Im completely happy with my GWF's performace in PVE. Parties are formed by people. The "lets take a Pala over a GF" approach indicates elitist mentality and inclination towards speed runs which I dont share and dont endorse. If the people on a party want to play it that way, fine but I wont have anything to do with it. In the end a legit party will have zero complaint in regard to who does the tanking as long as the tanking is done. This is how I play
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
That sounds good, cant wait to test myself, sadly ive been having too much work lately and thus leveling is slow. So then, is that a 1k aoe damage once every 3 seconds ? If thats the case we are looking at 4-5k aoe damage every 12-14 seconds. My sentie hits over 30k every 12-14 secs and thats just 1 cagi while probably being as tanky as a Paladin would be. I dont see the OP anywhere near an Intimidation Sentinel damage wise. But if he does more dmg than a GF Protector then maybe thats because he should ? I dont know, let the devs and the D&D specialists have a say on it.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
The dmg is affected By lvl and armor atm mines hits from 600 up to 1k dmg depending on the mob but its a constant DMG Pulse every three seconds. I was rolling with Aura of wrath But i dislike juggling my Current HP with temp hp to get the 30% dmg boost cause i am a lazy cow. Any way the Aura can Triger the tiefling racial and that is a good thing for what its wurth but i am probly gonna make a dragonborn or human OP
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