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Tiamat for beginners, (zerg) simple tactic and some tips to increase win rate
ancyras
Member Posts: 25 Arc User
Hello guys,
Everyday I try to attend tiamat approx. 10 times and want to share my experiences & give some tips for beginners/new players. I played wow for many years as a hardcore raider and had many 25HC ranks top #5 overall world. And now I play Neverwinter and like this game. Tiamat is so easy combat (vs magaera hc) if we understand mechanics, tactic and logic.
Firstly I want to start with "Gear Score". After every fail tiamat I see people blaming low gs people. And most of high gs people think they carry low gs people but thats totally wrong because Tiamat is a PvE combat and I see how much dmg done people with which spells. (It also helps to improve game performance). A pvp (tank) build high gs can do less damage then a 12-13k pve t2 character. And after fails i see many High GS players are least damagers. And I saw lots of high gs people over 21k+ don't know how to use gem or don't know to go which head when. So "GS" is pointless for me except when I see people at 10k gs and like 2.5k power I get worry, because T2 pieces are so cheap now. (thanks to tiamat). I remember days of an Avatar/High Vizier piece was over 1m AD but now 10-20-30-40k AD which is possible to make a full T2 set by 2-3 day farming.
There are many guides about Tiamat but when see zone chat fights after every tia wanted to write this :
Tiamat is a 3 phase and according to dps/dmg done 1 (very high dps), 2 (high dps) or 3 (normal/low dps) round combat. I'll talk about 3 head phase combat which is at line of fail.
1st Phase : Killing Summoners and optaining gems :
GEMS : After killing summoners please loot gem and socket your pot bar. If you dont want to bother with opening bag etc in combat, you can make a free spot before you get in. Then it comes to directly to pot bar when you loot. There are 5 heads, 5 different colors. That gems works like a shield and when you use it, ppl who stand on it will be immune to head ability damage. Just white gem is different then others : white head casts a ice/frost on ground and ppl who stand on it can freeze or if move fast on ice can fall down and die. Some classes can dodge/break it. (TR/GWF) White gem must be used AFTER people freeze or remove ice on the ground. other gems must be used before boss cast ability (area=red). Green, Blue and White is most important colors because can make whole group die if not gem used. And a wipe like which makes group die, makes you loose big time to release and run back or try to revive others and goes to a fail. Black and Red is healable but its good to use gems there too. And every gem works only on same color head. Black gem work at black head platform, green works on green head platform...etc. For example, green gem does nothing at blue head. And Its just a CD waste and gem isn't a healing pot. some ppl use it by panic. I see most ppl use gems like that. It's wrong.
DEFENDING CLERICS : Standing on clerics make heads cast abilities on clerics and it makes them heal slow or take dmg and loose HP so that phase takes longer. Dont forget you play against time. Every second is important. You can use knock spells to defend clerics but it's possible to control and kill adds as where they spawn. This phase is just a funny pve aoe phase. Your aim is as named "defending clerics" from add dmg and boss abilities. You can use gems on clerics too but if there are many ppl doesnt have or dont know to use gems on heads, it can risk your head phase.
HEAD PHASE: Most important phase of combat. EVERY SECOND is IMPORTANT. You have just 2 minutes to down heads. Only 2 minutes. To make a %100 win, you must down min. 2.5 or 3 heads per phase. I see many people still busy on mobs when heads down or going wrong heads which makes less people do dmg on head and biggest reason of dps loose. Most ppl blame low gs when heads are not down but another biggest reason is : "people dont go and hit heads". And class buffs/debuffs are very important. Every class has a debuff/buff spell and using them helps. For example : DC with high prophet set = %30, p.terror = %20, g.plague %15 defence decrease. For DC's Divine glow - hand of doom - forgemaster's flame best helping encounters. Not needed so much heals when gems used properly. TR = Wicked Reminder. GF/GWF = Mark, etc.
Please use Greater Potion of Dragon Slaying and Greater Scroll of Protection from Dragons and other stat pots. You can get dragon pots by killing dragon every xx:45 min of hour or cheap at AH. It helps a lot.
As a summary :
1. Kill summoners, loot gems and use on same color head only.
2. Defend Clerics. Keep eye on bars. if a clerics bar is low or going slower then others it means need help there.
3. HEAD PHASE = Round 1 : All go BLACK head, down to last 4 bar run next FAST. (Dots will do some dmg even after you leave head) Then GREEN --> Then RED.(not more then last 4 bar it heals back. its just a time waste. be fast and go next head. Every second is important. I see many groups stay until last bar and waste 1min. on black which prepares a fail even that group has enough dmg done to win)
4. Defend Clerics.
5. HEAD PHASE = Round 2 : All go ans START at BLUE head, down to last 4 bar, then WHITE, down to last 4 bar and if still you have time and RED is high hp, you can down RED head.
Another wrong here is : WHY START BLUE? Unfortunately I asked some people who says "I know tia best" couldnt explain and says "Ofc you start RED". There are many ways to kill tia but this is best solution for low/normal dps groups. if you didnt down RED at Round 1, ignore it. You can kill it at last when ALL meet at middle. Because if you didnt down RED at P1, you can't down 3 heads at second round (Red, Blue, White) and if you enter last phase with high HP White head. its mostly fail. Blue and White heads must down at Round 2 because when you split and go to kill at last, its hard to kill a high HP white head. White head is hardest head to dps. Knocks back all time and makes you get out from hitbox. And until left side kill 4 heads, you still will be busy with white and time wont be enough. This is a tip for low dmg output groups : At second round if you start at blue then go white and down these two and hit red a bit, you have big chance to kill all at last. leave RED last phase.
6. Defend Clerics.
7. HEAD & FINISH PHASE : Group split two. Left side start from BLACK head, kill it, then GREEN head, kill it. Right side start from WHITE head, kill it, then run to BLUE head, kill it. Then ALL meet at middle and kill RED head. Thats why I suggest to leave RED last phase. I winned many times by killing RED At last phase at %100 hp and lost many times with a enough dps but wasting time on white. When you meet at middle you can kill a high HP RED but its hard to kill a White Head as split group and just from movement without mount, from Black head to White head takes more then 1 minute by visiting all heads. so RED is meeting point here and if you down RED, you win. Still if you couldnt kill RED then group didnt have enough dmg output or enough buffs/debuffs or group didnt use time well. but as I figured out from 200 tiamat combats, dps can be enough if all group follow tactic and if no one die on heads or waste time on going wrong head or trying to kill mobs even when heads down.
TIPS for some classes :
CW : you can freeze adds with Ice Terrain as where they spawn and aoe them. Knocking is usefull on platforms or under clerics but other times it spread mobs and makes group loose dmg on them and kill one by one. If you have many melees beside you like gwf and tr, you can use arcane singularity to kill them faster.
DC : Very important class with a very important role : buffs and debuffs. T1 high prophet set = %30 defence decrease. Divine Glow - Hand of doom - Forgemaster's Flame almost doubles the group dmg. When defending clerics, knocking helps but spamming knock all time makes adds spread and other's cant aoe.
GF : Mark adds and try to hold aggro and move them from clerics.
TR : Wicked reminder.
We all started from zero and learned by time/working, spending hours. For any questions you can /w me anytime.
Good Luck,
Everyday I try to attend tiamat approx. 10 times and want to share my experiences & give some tips for beginners/new players. I played wow for many years as a hardcore raider and had many 25HC ranks top #5 overall world. And now I play Neverwinter and like this game. Tiamat is so easy combat (vs magaera hc) if we understand mechanics, tactic and logic.
Firstly I want to start with "Gear Score". After every fail tiamat I see people blaming low gs people. And most of high gs people think they carry low gs people but thats totally wrong because Tiamat is a PvE combat and I see how much dmg done people with which spells. (It also helps to improve game performance). A pvp (tank) build high gs can do less damage then a 12-13k pve t2 character. And after fails i see many High GS players are least damagers. And I saw lots of high gs people over 21k+ don't know how to use gem or don't know to go which head when. So "GS" is pointless for me except when I see people at 10k gs and like 2.5k power I get worry, because T2 pieces are so cheap now. (thanks to tiamat). I remember days of an Avatar/High Vizier piece was over 1m AD but now 10-20-30-40k AD which is possible to make a full T2 set by 2-3 day farming.
There are many guides about Tiamat but when see zone chat fights after every tia wanted to write this :
Tiamat is a 3 phase and according to dps/dmg done 1 (very high dps), 2 (high dps) or 3 (normal/low dps) round combat. I'll talk about 3 head phase combat which is at line of fail.
1st Phase : Killing Summoners and optaining gems :
GEMS : After killing summoners please loot gem and socket your pot bar. If you dont want to bother with opening bag etc in combat, you can make a free spot before you get in. Then it comes to directly to pot bar when you loot. There are 5 heads, 5 different colors. That gems works like a shield and when you use it, ppl who stand on it will be immune to head ability damage. Just white gem is different then others : white head casts a ice/frost on ground and ppl who stand on it can freeze or if move fast on ice can fall down and die. Some classes can dodge/break it. (TR/GWF) White gem must be used AFTER people freeze or remove ice on the ground. other gems must be used before boss cast ability (area=red). Green, Blue and White is most important colors because can make whole group die if not gem used. And a wipe like which makes group die, makes you loose big time to release and run back or try to revive others and goes to a fail. Black and Red is healable but its good to use gems there too. And every gem works only on same color head. Black gem work at black head platform, green works on green head platform...etc. For example, green gem does nothing at blue head. And Its just a CD waste and gem isn't a healing pot. some ppl use it by panic. I see most ppl use gems like that. It's wrong.
DEFENDING CLERICS : Standing on clerics make heads cast abilities on clerics and it makes them heal slow or take dmg and loose HP so that phase takes longer. Dont forget you play against time. Every second is important. You can use knock spells to defend clerics but it's possible to control and kill adds as where they spawn. This phase is just a funny pve aoe phase. Your aim is as named "defending clerics" from add dmg and boss abilities. You can use gems on clerics too but if there are many ppl doesnt have or dont know to use gems on heads, it can risk your head phase.
HEAD PHASE: Most important phase of combat. EVERY SECOND is IMPORTANT. You have just 2 minutes to down heads. Only 2 minutes. To make a %100 win, you must down min. 2.5 or 3 heads per phase. I see many people still busy on mobs when heads down or going wrong heads which makes less people do dmg on head and biggest reason of dps loose. Most ppl blame low gs when heads are not down but another biggest reason is : "people dont go and hit heads". And class buffs/debuffs are very important. Every class has a debuff/buff spell and using them helps. For example : DC with high prophet set = %30, p.terror = %20, g.plague %15 defence decrease. For DC's Divine glow - hand of doom - forgemaster's flame best helping encounters. Not needed so much heals when gems used properly. TR = Wicked Reminder. GF/GWF = Mark, etc.
Please use Greater Potion of Dragon Slaying and Greater Scroll of Protection from Dragons and other stat pots. You can get dragon pots by killing dragon every xx:45 min of hour or cheap at AH. It helps a lot.
As a summary :
1. Kill summoners, loot gems and use on same color head only.
2. Defend Clerics. Keep eye on bars. if a clerics bar is low or going slower then others it means need help there.
3. HEAD PHASE = Round 1 : All go BLACK head, down to last 4 bar run next FAST. (Dots will do some dmg even after you leave head) Then GREEN --> Then RED.(not more then last 4 bar it heals back. its just a time waste. be fast and go next head. Every second is important. I see many groups stay until last bar and waste 1min. on black which prepares a fail even that group has enough dmg done to win)
4. Defend Clerics.
5. HEAD PHASE = Round 2 : All go ans START at BLUE head, down to last 4 bar, then WHITE, down to last 4 bar and if still you have time and RED is high hp, you can down RED head.
Another wrong here is : WHY START BLUE? Unfortunately I asked some people who says "I know tia best" couldnt explain and says "Ofc you start RED". There are many ways to kill tia but this is best solution for low/normal dps groups. if you didnt down RED at Round 1, ignore it. You can kill it at last when ALL meet at middle. Because if you didnt down RED at P1, you can't down 3 heads at second round (Red, Blue, White) and if you enter last phase with high HP White head. its mostly fail. Blue and White heads must down at Round 2 because when you split and go to kill at last, its hard to kill a high HP white head. White head is hardest head to dps. Knocks back all time and makes you get out from hitbox. And until left side kill 4 heads, you still will be busy with white and time wont be enough. This is a tip for low dmg output groups : At second round if you start at blue then go white and down these two and hit red a bit, you have big chance to kill all at last. leave RED last phase.
6. Defend Clerics.
7. HEAD & FINISH PHASE : Group split two. Left side start from BLACK head, kill it, then GREEN head, kill it. Right side start from WHITE head, kill it, then run to BLUE head, kill it. Then ALL meet at middle and kill RED head. Thats why I suggest to leave RED last phase. I winned many times by killing RED At last phase at %100 hp and lost many times with a enough dps but wasting time on white. When you meet at middle you can kill a high HP RED but its hard to kill a White Head as split group and just from movement without mount, from Black head to White head takes more then 1 minute by visiting all heads. so RED is meeting point here and if you down RED, you win. Still if you couldnt kill RED then group didnt have enough dmg output or enough buffs/debuffs or group didnt use time well. but as I figured out from 200 tiamat combats, dps can be enough if all group follow tactic and if no one die on heads or waste time on going wrong head or trying to kill mobs even when heads down.
TIPS for some classes :
CW : you can freeze adds with Ice Terrain as where they spawn and aoe them. Knocking is usefull on platforms or under clerics but other times it spread mobs and makes group loose dmg on them and kill one by one. If you have many melees beside you like gwf and tr, you can use arcane singularity to kill them faster.
DC : Very important class with a very important role : buffs and debuffs. T1 high prophet set = %30 defence decrease. Divine Glow - Hand of doom - Forgemaster's Flame almost doubles the group dmg. When defending clerics, knocking helps but spamming knock all time makes adds spread and other's cant aoe.
GF : Mark adds and try to hold aggro and move them from clerics.
TR : Wicked reminder.
We all started from zero and learned by time/working, spending hours. For any questions you can /w me anytime.
Good Luck,
Post edited by ancyras on
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Comments
Also easy fix: Get 18k+ GS, join a high GS channel and get 95% win rate.
there is no such thing in Neverwinter... Mindless zerg where anyone can use anything they want and still make it!
Hi lobo, thanks for read & reply. btw I can go over 19.5+ gs with my GWF with purified black ice set and some def/hp rings but it will make big decrease to my dps at tiamat where we race with time. And as I said before I saw many high gs ppl doing very low dmg or dont have any idea what to do inside, no gem, going wrong heads etc. so GS pointles..
As channel, I'm already in a very good channel which our win rate is 8-9/10 when we get in 5-10+ ppl from channel but system splits anyhow and we get random ppl. So If people can understand tactic, anyone can win. Not so hard combat.
9/10?!! I havent failed due dps or tactics for the last 200 runs and i use a public channel to queue... only way tiamat fails is due bugs!
Within Tiamat you have five minutes at most to explain folks what to do and most likely you're getting bashed in the process by scrubs that don't want to be educated and then die to the first dragon breath available.
That's why folks prefer high GS instances and timed entries, not because a high GS players can't be bad, but because a high GS player is much more likely to contribute than a low GS player.
It seemed they made Tiamat's reqs so low to prepare players and their gear for the level cap increase, but it was one of the dumbest things in terms of progression for this game. New players can skip all content and go to Tiamat instantly without having any experience with endgame and/or their class. That's a problem.
The fact that you can't premade the fight also works against the necessity to learn the fight. Nowadays everybody zergs, you need little tactics because most of the time the mixed party will carry the fight through all mistakes with DPS alone. If BiS players could team up and completely dodge PuG instances, the win rate of lower levels would drastically decrease, forcing them to search for tactics and/or gear up.
Nobody can tell me they get any chills from fighting and driving back the goddess Tiamat. A win is not epic, it's a laugher.
The second one was with the zerg, and I turned into a sheep, erm... zergling. And from memory the zerg didn't drop the red head last. I got ko'ed about seven times. (By that I mean respawned myself, and had to reapply the standard five potion buffs.) Tiamat died, and I got the title and the Favour, but didn't have the key for the chest, so no extra goodies. Won't use the title though untill I can get through the temple with a lot less deaths. Say three, and that means I need somewhat better gear.
- Managing group and coordination is most important point here. People must listen someone who helps about tactics. If you have very high dps, possible to do it at 3 phase, if you dont have very high dps then its 4 phase combat. It is possible to do it 4 phase but must use every second carefully.
1. At beginning people must go their colors and whole group must split balanced at %50 left-%50 right. White and Black summoner must die at same time. Which I see from many pugs, all start left, then go one by one and waste 1-2 minute on summoners and risk 4th phase. When killing summoners, all dps'ers must focus single to summoner mob instead of try to aoe all.
2. Sharing gems and using gem on every heads without mistake very important. 2-3 black, 5-6-7 green, 2-3-4 red, 4-5 blue, 3-4 white is good, if all use gems, it will help to survive at head phase and defending clerics. And on heads we see 2 abilities, so gems must share order between eachother to manage cooldowns, if everybody use gems when 1st ability come, then 2nd ability can make whole group kill and wipe and fail all effort. so people say green 1, green 2, blue 1, blue 2, red 1, red 2, and back-ups if someone die before using gem, that back-up person can use gem.
3. Defending clerics : This phase is important to do 4th round. Biggest job here is tanks and knockers, like dc with sunburst, cw's etc. Knockers musnt let any adds reach to cleric, tanks must keep taunting adds and keep aggro on and try not to die by kiting etc. Healer's must keep tank and group alive. And around cleric must be clean to not put red area's (head abilities) on clerics. If there is a red area on cleric, back-up gemmers must use and shield cleric. And group must check cleric's healing bars all time. If a bar is lower or slower then others go help that side.
3. Head Phases :
* 1st Phase : Down Black - Green - Red to 3 bar. You musn't spend more then 1 minute on black head. Also healing is very important, everybody must be full hp all time, people must move from red areas, if there are adds on platform, tanks must taunt them to away from group or knock outside.
* 2nd Phase : Down BLUE, WHITE - go red if time. Why ignore red? Because you must prepare white for last phase. Red is easiest head to kill but white is hard. knocking all time makes melee loose a lot dps.
* 3th Phase : If you downed all 5 heads to last 3-4 bar, then group has enough dps to win. Split as at beginning and kill all. Or all group start black -> green -> red -> blue -> white both tactics can work with your current dps.
If Red head is high hp and you have 8min still, down Red to 3 bar, chop other heads if there is high, and wait for 4th phase. Defend clerics carefully by full focus. dont loose any time on them, and dps will be enough to kill all at last.
Everybody in group has their own role. If all focus their job well victory comes...
Our channel is recruiting players for our tiamat victories and dragon runs.
Considering the red aura of death doesn't turn off and therefore you are getting a percentage reduction in health at all times, and the fact that most of the heads one shot everyone, I can't even see how this is possible at this point.
That said, getting to the 4th round prior to Mod6 generally meant you had some issues. You could still win if people figured it out, but it usually meant you failed.
With the dramatically increased damage, health and the bugged aura, I seriously doubt anyone has beaten her in Mod6. Not that my belief is necessary to anyone for anything, but I'd need a developer to come in and say she has been beaten legit before I'd believe it.
Yes it happens sometimes and impossible to survive with pots, thats why we need healers here to keep everyone full hp all time. At one of our win run, paladin healer keep all group alive on green head without gem, good players can do good things in hard situations
4th round is easy. but people must organize good. must split balanced at beginning. white and black summoner must die same time, if all go left side then run right side, loose lots of time and ofc cant p4. To make 4phase, must kill summoners fast and defend clerics without mistakes. People must look cleric bars and if all 3 bar doesnt go together then give a help to lowest one, knockers must keep around clerics clean all time. ppl must use knocks around clerics, tanks must taunt adds asap, cw's also can freeze adds as they spawn.
we downed 4 times with our good channel team. and many times time end at last 1-2 bar by 5-10 seconds. because of afk ppl or randoms who dont know what to do inside and doesnt follow our tactics.