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overdriver13
Member Posts: 1,521 Arc User
Before I took a several month break, I noticed a trend in domination pvp of winning 7 of 10 matches then losing 7 of 10 matches and so on. I came back about a month ago and have been playing a ton of level 60 pvp the past two weeks. The above trend is much worse. The streaks now seem to be at 45-50 games. So I win about 45 of 50 matches then lose 45 of 50 matches. First two weeks of lvl 60 pvp I made it to page 150. Then I lost about 20 matches in a row. I would think that would be due to dealing with higher gs/better players at page 150, but really even at page 1000 I am still losing. My gear score is higher, everything else is the same.
The only difference is during a losing streak, my team mates seem to refuse to contest nodes no matter what and only ever stand on nodes when the node is already being capped with no enemies in sight. As a tr I will be on the enemy node through the whole match, fighting 3 or 4 of the enemy team by myself through most of it. Giving my team an easy 2v1 edge on the other nodes yet they never turn blue and are rarely contested.
The only sense I can make of this is the "secret proprietary elo (matchmaking) algorithm". Looking at glassdoor reviews and the priorities given to the development of this game (everything is very heavily monetized), I am thinking the elo algorithm is probably set up to give players a bunch of wins and then a bunch of losses in order to lure them into spending money to get back to winning, when they are on a losing streak.
I really think when they want you to win, you get higher ranked/better players on YOUR TEAM and lower ranked/worse players on the enemy team. When they want you to lose you get the worse players and the other side gets the better players.
There is no other way to explain these crazy win/lose streaks.
The only difference is during a losing streak, my team mates seem to refuse to contest nodes no matter what and only ever stand on nodes when the node is already being capped with no enemies in sight. As a tr I will be on the enemy node through the whole match, fighting 3 or 4 of the enemy team by myself through most of it. Giving my team an easy 2v1 edge on the other nodes yet they never turn blue and are rarely contested.
The only sense I can make of this is the "secret proprietary elo (matchmaking) algorithm". Looking at glassdoor reviews and the priorities given to the development of this game (everything is very heavily monetized), I am thinking the elo algorithm is probably set up to give players a bunch of wins and then a bunch of losses in order to lure them into spending money to get back to winning, when they are on a losing streak.
I really think when they want you to win, you get higher ranked/better players on YOUR TEAM and lower ranked/worse players on the enemy team. When they want you to lose you get the worse players and the other side gets the better players.
There is no other way to explain these crazy win/lose streaks.
Post edited by overdriver13 on
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In order for the system to match players within a reasonable time frame it is a bit looser than it ideally should be. This causes a lot of issues particularly at the extremes of the elo bracket where fewer players are available.
The third paragraph is...well much like the dumb luck bit you are seeing a pattern where there is none. You simply climbed up the ladder and are experiencing a lower population pool. There's a sort of glass ceiling there in which skill has placed you with the big boys, so to speak, but the big boys tend to either be playing together or have a large amount invested in their characters. There simply isn't a lot of people at the top who don't fit into one or the other of those categories so the players that don't end up bobbing between being too good for the casual PvPer but underpowered compared to the hardcore PvP crowd.
It's not intentionally programmed. It is a direct result of a small population pool.
I get that. But ALL THOSE WINS in a row then all those losses. Wayy too much of a pattern. As I said, it isn't the elo simply matching me against the good players at page 150, it is the elo teaming me with horrible teams for the past 60 or so matches.
A page 100 match with decent players on my team vs a guild premade of 18k+ players is much much much more likely to end as a win than a page 1200 match with clueless players on my team vs a team of low gs but competent domination opponents.
If I started losing at page 150 and started winning at page 900 and ended up after some wins and losses right around page 800 it would make some kind of sense. Even with crazy low population and the elo attempting to matchmake, I would find a place on the leaderboard that reflects my general skill+gs. Instead I'll lose 40 of 50 and then win 40 of 50 and will cycle rapidly between pages 1500 and 150 in the process.
BTW how do you know it is not intentionally programmed? I thought the exact elo process was proprietary. It just makes sense to me that profits are programmed in every phase, it is a business after all.
Matchmaking was introduced to address lopsided match. But since it doesn't work because lopsided matches are still happening, it basically introduced longer wait time for no reason.
Obvious question: Why not get rid of it? Or turn off until such time when it is working?
I'd go as far as saying that the PVP queue system is not in a better state right now than it was in Mod 2, where we had no leaver penalty and no ELO. It's not worse either, but considering the amount of work they put into it, the result is underwhelming.
I'd still like to have these two separate queues for casual and competitive PVP. A ranked solo queue with a very strict ELO, leaderboard ranking and account-wide leaver penalty and the unranked one with little to no ELO, no leaver penalty and decreased glory gain. This change in some shape or form is vital!
The one issue I see is the that you can't do other stuff while waiting for the ranked queue. I had no problem waiting for an hour or so if I could run a dungeon in that span. Play unranked, a skirmish, whatever really. Since that's not possible or would require a massive time investment to realize, they are being very careful with the queue times.
Reading several statements from the devs, they are overly anxious that players are getting bored and waiting in a queue for too long is simply not something they can allow to happen. That's why the Dragon timers in Mod 4 were such a ****up.
When there are 1 shooting builds for over 2 months without any fix, it is normal to have low pvp population... this rotation of the over powered class pretty much killed the pvp.
The matchmaking system is finding it really hard to balance teams because it just doesn't rely on gearscore.
I don't think they are intentionally designing matchmaking to make you win/lose
The original statement was that matchmaking would need 20 games or so until it creates balanced matches, but I think we can safely say that this was a fantasy. You were always getting way more lopsided encounters than competitive ones even deep into the 100s games played. It has never worked and will never work.
There has to be some separation and I don't think it should come from additional parameters of the matchmaking. It didn't work with a strict system, so introducing another factor like GS should instantly increase the queue times for everybody to an inconvenient level. That's why I think the two-queue system is the best option. You wanna swallow that e-peen? Strict matchmaking, a harsh leaver penalty and long solo queue times for you, the rest can instantly hop into a casual match with less glory and less fame.
They could also use their data to give the user an approximation of the waiting time based on current server and queue population and historical data, but that's too good to become reality.
It sucks that competitive PVP is at a level where you presumably have to wait a long time to get queued, but if that's what this game has to offer then you have to live with it I guess. And it's still better than what we have now, because currently the casual gamer gets roflstomped way too often and the pro folks have no legit ranking.
This is the thing that needs to be fixed in order to fix matchmaking, but when matchmaking is so awful, no one wants to bother with PvP anyway, keeping the population low. SO how do you fix it? I have a couple ideas. Apparently both have been routinely shot down, but here they are anyway. Please offer some other ideas to fix PvP.
First: The devs should give players more reason to PvP in order to increase the PvP population. RP? AD? Something other than stuff that is only useful in PvP (honor). Why? Because the people who aren't PvPing right now don't care about that and you want to get more of those people play. But there's still the issue of matchmaking being so awful.
Second: The PvP matchups need to be more balanced. Make it solo queue and that's it. Make separate queues for premades if you think there will be enough people for them, but the premade high-GS groups are what's breaking matchmaking right now, so remove them. This way, when there are 8 people with 26k GS who want to PvP, you don't get 5 of them on 1 team and 3 on the other with the other 2 spots filled in with whatever, killing the balance. Balance them out evenly with 4 of the pros and one casual on each team, so it's even, so it's fair. Yes, you will fight against your friends sometimes.
Please fix PvP. I would love to get into it. The combat system in this game makes the PvP game a lot of fun. Every time I level a toon, I have a lot of fun in the lower brackets, because the gearscore gaps aren't NEARLY as ridiculous there and it's still much more fair and fun. Even when I'm level 20 fighting against a level 29, he doesn't have literally double all of my stat ratings and 3 times my HP. I stand a chance because skill matters more than gear at those levels. You can lie to me all you want, but we all know that doesn't hold true at level 60. The gearscore gaps between the haves and the have-nots at level 60 are so ridiculous that I have often compared it to putting a level 30 character in the 50s bracket. It's that imbalanced.
My trend is more like ten losses followed by ten losses. But then, I'm not a TR.
Tired of Dailies/Tyranny of Dailies/Timers of Doom/Tricked Or Duped/Tremendously Obnoxious Dailies/Try Otherwise, Devs
Right on. /10char
That's completely daft. Decreased glory game for the casual PvPers is exactly what you don't want.
Who needs the glory the most, and has the roughest time getting it? People trying to earn their PvP gear.
Who isn't desperate to earn PvP gear? The already BiS hardcore, who could easily drop down to unranked temporarily if they needed a chunk of glory for a newly-released set.
Who doesn't believe that you thought this through at all? Shaft! Can you dig it?
I might add that I've said since day one that I believe glory gain is too low all across the board and a lot of the leaving problems in Mod 2 were caused by generally unrewarding matches. So I'd support an adjustment, especially to the 15-minute cap, to glory gain.
Also don't forget that losing is the worst way to earn glory. You have to win and the lackluster matchmaking prevents that from happening (sort of). So ideally the ranked queue will get the BiS players out of the way for casual gamers and they are able to get a better win% and more glory. But honestly the most efficient way to earn glory is doing the two dailies and GG lairs anyway, in its current state you don't want to farm glory through Domination.