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Clerics not using Hallowed Ground in Tiamat

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  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    @pointsman : nothing more to say in this threat
  • aulduronaulduron Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,351 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    I always use HG (and wear HP), though the heads usually die too quickly to bother.
  • katbozejziemikatbozejziemi Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 856 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    They're probably doing more damage than you are so I don't think you should be telling them how to play.
  • asterotgasterotg Member Posts: 1,742 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    They're probably doing more damage than you are so I don't think you should be telling them how to play.

    The OP did not tell ppl how to play, but asked, why ppl dont use HG. Most ppl recommended the skill. BTW since when depends the validity of a opinion on the dps of the played char?
    Chars: CW, DC, GF, GWF, HR and TR.
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    BTW since when depends the validity of a opinion on the dps of the played char?
    since the player mix up real life with fantasy online
  • odd111outodd111out Member Posts: 173 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    when i go tiamat i use high prophet - 30% DR , ..

    That's not how HP works. You should know how your gear works before you tell people to use it.
    to all clerics who don´t use it anymore, because of ? no ap regain, no use?
    i spam it 10 times during tiamat encounter using the sigil (only purple)...what is your point cant understand this arguments, please explain it to me

    BTW your "argument" assumes that all DCs have completed DR/ Sharandar, thus opening up their DC class Artifact for Tiamat content.

    That aside, again, it does not stack. So many of the "debuffs" you and others have insisted that all others use do not stack with themselves.

    As a Righteous spec DC, I output a lot more DPS than the other two specs, plus with 100% uptime of Bear Your Sins, that's 10% increased damage from all sources. What, should all DCs respec to Righteous because not having "Bear Your Sins" = selfishness and not using the best debuff/damage boosts available? Hardly. Let the Faithful/Virts spam HG and I'll use my much harder hitting GoF to keep the < 14k crowd on their feet. When I rotate to my Faithful spec (omg so many runs) then I'll take responsibility for Hallowed Ground. Accepting and planning for a variety of builds between Clerics is the essence of teamwork.

    I have HP gear on, so why would I complain about what other DCs wear? On the head section, only ONE DC applies the "debuff." Anyone else in HP gear on the same head might as well be naked.

    That's the same with HV, etc etc. With so many other CWs in HV gear, it's pointless for me to bring mine. So I wear Shadoweaver instead and hand out about 9% increased critical severity.

    All of this *you must wear this* and *you must use this spell* otherwise you're to blame for the totality of 24 other people and their DPS output isn't going to help instances stop failing. Far too many people who are constantly, in The Temple and the General Discussion area, blaming Clerics for their Tiamat failures do not understand how "debuffs" work or how to tell if a character is well rounded. Seriously, I just skimmed through the other Class Forums and the General area, and couldn't find a single "GFs not using ITF and being in parties = Fail Tiamat" threads.
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    please keep it short and don´t get picky about not giving it word by word, "HP stacks 3 times 10%" whats the point?
    its a threat about buffing or not, not only about clerics
    the argument about not stacking just leads you to the point to no use it...your decision.. but exactly this kind of selfishness is the problem u always meet in tiamat
    25 individuals only concern about their personal damgemeter
  • katbozejziemikatbozejziemi Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 856 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    asterotg wrote: »
    The OP did not tell ppl how to play
    That's not what he said in his opening post.
  • jaegernljaegernl Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 455 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    odd111out wrote: »
    BTW your "argument" assumes that all DCs have completed DR/ Sharandar, thus opening up their DC class Artifact for Tiamat content.

    No, it doesn't. You can get your Sigil at your third boon in eighter, provided you have another character in IWD. If one was to be a d*ck, one would say: 'No, that's not how the Vault of the Nine works. You should know how unlocking Sigils works before you tell people what they need before posting', but that would be truely d*ckish.
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  • bvirabvira Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 385 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Hallowed Ground is NERFED for the DC casting it: it costs 100% Action Points and ZERO Action Points are gained during the entire duration of Hallowed Ground. WHY WOULD I USE IT? I haven't slotted it since the new changes and I doubt anyone else will ever slot it again. I cast it, my Action Points go zero and I get no new Action Points for what - 30 seconds - only THEN must I work like hell to fill it up again? No way, Jose.

    The party benefit is minuscule to the cost of casting it. Not no, but hellno. You can all say goodbye to Hallowed Ground from experienced DCs. And it has nothing to do with "thirsty for DPS" at all. It has everything to do with way too much costs to use it.

    It's like adding 30 seconds to all your encounter cool-downs as soon as you use (name your class' BiS Encounter). Would you use it?

    Compare 2 x Hammer of Fate and 1 x Hallowed Ground (with at least 10+ ppl around you in Tiamat)

    Which one is going to help killing Tiamat faster? You do the math.
  • odd111outodd111out Member Posts: 173 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    please keep it short and don´t get picky about not giving it word by word, "HP stacks 3 times 10%" whats the point?
    its a threat about buffing or not, not only about clerics
    the argument about not stacking just leads you to the point to no use it...your decision.. but exactly this kind of selfishness is the problem u always meet in tiamat
    25 individuals only concern about their personal damgemeter

    This isn't about it being word for word. You are blindly repeating a tooltip for armor whose set bonus you do not understand. And if you don't understand how your armor set works, you don't know at all how much it boosts your own DPS or the DPS of others. You do not get 3 stacks of 10% defense reduction because that's not how it works at all. It is both affected by the damage resistance % of the target and also depends on each individual's level of resistance ignored (Armor Penetration + possible class base RI).

    As for any Cleric who would cast Hallowed Ground on top of another Cleric's Hallowed Ground to appeal to some ideal of political correctness, they might as well not cast any Dailies at all. I had a run tonight with eleven Clerics, with 5 other DCs with me on Linu (and no lag, ha ha). What would have been the point of six HG on top of each other? Or eleven HG on the Black Head?

    You haven't had a single Cleric come in here and say they've dropped HG to increase their DPS. Again and again, you've been given utility answers. Whoever doesn't agree with you, those people (like me) are labeled as morally deficient by you. We aren't selfish, really, the problem seems more that we don't agree with your point of view. And then you label the entire rest of the instances where you have failed as more selfish people.

    Even when I get done with Remedy and switch off to my DO Cleric, Hallowed Ground (especially on the heads) is not always the best option, especially because of the damage multiplier. Your window of opportunity to use it is really only at the start of the head, for right now at least. The vast majority of the instances I run in struggle with keeping the DPS from dropping the HP of a head below 10% during the first two rounds. You are supposed to "stop" at four bars, in theory, but in practice it's not that easy. I can vary when I start pulling my debuffs, but it's usually that I time it to have spent my round of divine encounters at 50%, and move out at 35%. Certainly, throwing down a damage multiplier like HG just when the zerg is trying to throttle down the DOT engine... not very useful.

    I'm 16.6k. I've never been in the 19k Tiamat Channel. I have no idea when they run. But I am not struggling in any way to clear this content. If you are struggling, I feel for you, and by no means give up, but you're not going to get far by trying to tell me I'm doing things wrong on my pile of 127 Linu's Favors.

    The problem in DPS failures isn't a selfish pursuit of DPS over teamwork but rather the lack of DPS. The people who know their names are going to be visible on the chart everyone sees at the end (the top four) and anyone who has a remote chance at that isn't sitting there going, mmmm, my name on this chart or a Linu's Favor. Who wants to be doing this into next summer? The problem in DPS failures is the number of people who have zoned in with the mistaken belief that the Magic Buff Fairy can turn their T1-Rank 3-Green Catalogue character into Cinderella.
  • angryspriteangrysprite Member Posts: 4,982 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    jaegernl wrote: »
    No, it doesn't. You can get your Sigil at your third boon in eighter, provided you have another character in IWD.

    This is true. It may be good to remember, however, that those same grindfest requirements don't exist to get into Well of Dragons. Too easy to skip those grindfests and head straight in and go for the similar (or to some: better) gear, etc., or through the AH.

    Let's keep things in perspective. Class Sigils are not as important to everyone as they may be to you (general 'you' - not directed at anyone specific).
  • herundrionherundrion Member Posts: 238 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Hmm, if I was going to go fight the draconic goddess, the queen and mother of evil dragons... Tiamat.
    yeah, I better do everything I can to make sure we defeat her - doing anything less is callous and stupid.
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  • umcjdkingumcjdking Member Posts: 276 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    I don't trust other players at all so I use Anointed Army.
  • vcekvcek Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 127 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    I remember seeing 3 overlapping hallowed grounds in front of the mid cleric. I personally like to use it for the 15% damage buff, but sometimes i use Flame Strike to knockdown adds if they pile up on someone or the cleric.
  • povep1968povep1968 Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Hallowed Ground is NERFED for the DC casting it: it costs 100% Action Points and ZERO Action Points are gained during the entire duration of Hallowed Ground. WHY WOULD I USE IT?...
    ...way too much costs to use it.

    It's like adding 30 seconds to all your encounter cool-downs as soon as you use (name your class' BiS Encounter). Would you use it?

    I admit, I haven't been playing terribly long. Long enough to get to 60 and fill up on epics (with guild help from the bank), not nearly enough to have artifact or even all T2 gear. With everything Clerics can do, I missed until recently the fact the Hallowed Ground prevents you from gaining Action Points for it's duration. It explains a lot, like why I can't keep it up "nearly all the time" like many of the old guides and bots of advice mention. (Duh me for not noticing the lack of gain during play.)

    Anyway, knowing that, why you feel like Hallowed Ground is now too costly to use? Especially in an environment with so many people, wouldn't the benefit of having it up half(*) the time be a big DPS increase for the raid? Granted this assumes that you don't overlap it with someone else's (happens a fair amount when it's being used at all). What other Daily would you use that, though using it much more often, would add more to the raid?

    (*): I haven't done the math. This is just a guess.
  • asterotgasterotg Member Posts: 1,742 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    This is not about wasting AP by throwing one not stacking buff/ debuff on another, but runs with 4-5 DCs and ONE HG in 25 minutes.

    TBH, I dont understand it. The ranking is a joke and without consequence for the rewards. For example, my CW ranked 1st multiple times and he had the worst loot ever, like a minor refinement stone and 7 dragon coins for the 1st place, yay.

    Most ppl who frequent the forum know how to stack buffs/ debuffs and the synergy of different classes, thats why they wonder why a very potent dmg buff like HG is not used at all in some runs.
    Chars: CW, DC, GF, GWF, HR and TR.
  • pointsmanpointsman Member Posts: 2,327 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    This is what I do with my DC.

    First, I make sure that before joining Tiamat, I have a full AP bar and my DC artifact ready to use.

    At the summoners phase, I typically don't cast HG because it just goes too fast and most of the HG debuff would be wasted. I will cast Sunburst and/or Empowered Sunburst to quickly get the adds off the platform so that the summoner(s) can be killed quickly. I'll then swap Sunburst for Chains.

    At the clerics phase, the instant I see adds, I immediately cast HG and hit my DC sigil. (Which is only purple by the way, not orange.) Then I start to control the adds per usual with the rest of the team. Once my daily is up again, I cast HG again. I easily get 2 HG's per cleric phase and depending on the quality of the team, sometimes 3. But if the clerics phase is going well and I see my AP bar is getting full again after the second HG cast, I'll save my daily for the heads phase.

    If I get to the black head quickly, then I'll be the first to cast HG for the team. If not, then I will save my HG for a subsequent head. At some point in the middle of the first head phase, my DC artifact is off cooldown again, I'll cast HG where appropriate and then hit the DC sigil again. By the end of the first head phase, I will again have a full AP bar to lay down another HG the moment I see adds at the start of the next cleric phase.

    I have never seen a situation where I have a full AP bar and lots of other DCs all spamming HGs as well so I feel compelled to not "waste" my daily and use Hammer of Fate or Flame Strike or something else instead.

    If my team is so good that they are cruising through the raid, then my extra DPS in terms of a Hammer of Fate or Flame Strike really isn't going to make any difference. But if my team isn't so good, then they will need all of the buffs/debuffs that they can get, so I will spam as many HGs as I can
  • asterotgasterotg Member Posts: 1,742 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    pointsman wrote: »
    This is what I do with my DC.

    First, I make sure that before joining Tiamat, I have a full AP bar and my DC artifact ready to use.

    At the summoners phase, I typically don't cast HG because it just goes too fast and most of the HG debuff would be wasted. I will cast Sunburst and/or Empowered Sunburst to quickly get the adds off the platform so that the summoner(s) can be killed quickly. I'll then swap Sunburst for Chains.

    At the clerics phase, the instant I see adds, I immediately cast HG and hit my DC sigil. (Which is only purple by the way, not orange.) Then I start to control the adds per usual with the rest of the team. Once my daily is up again, I cast HG again. I easily get 2 HG's per cleric phase and depending on the quality of the team, sometimes 3. But if the clerics phase is going well and I see my AP bar is getting full again after the second HG cast, I'll save my daily for the heads phase.

    If I get to the black head quickly, then I'll be the first to cast HG for the team. If not, then I will save my HG for a subsequent head. At some point in the middle of the first head phase, my DC artifact is off cooldown again, I'll cast HG where appropriate and then hit the DC sigil again. By the end of the first head phase, I will again have a full AP bar to lay down another HG the moment I see adds at the start of the next cleric phase.

    I have never seen a situation where I have a full AP bar and lots of other DCs all spamming HGs as well so I feel compelled to not "waste" my daily and use Hammer of Fate or Flame Strike or something else instead.

    If my team is so good that they are cruising through the raid, then my extra DPS in terms of a Hammer of Fate or Flame Strike really isn't going to make any difference. But if my team isn't so good, then they will need all of the buffs/debuffs that they can get, so I will spam as many HGs as I can

    This with different skills.

    At the cleric phase I use chains, DG, FF, hoping for a decent team to keep the mobs at the spawn point and burn them. If my mates lack in skill and/or dps and the mobs attack the chlerics, I switch chains to sunburst.

    At the heads I use prophecy of doom, DG, empowered FF and HG for max buff/ debuff.
    Chars: CW, DC, GF, GWF, HR and TR.
  • pointsmanpointsman Member Posts: 2,327 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    asterotg wrote: »
    This with different skills.

    At the cleric phase I use chains, DG, FF, hoping for a decent team to keep the mobs at the spawn point and burn them. If my mates lack in skill and/or dps and the mobs attack the chlerics, I switch chains to sunburst.

    At the heads I use prophecy of doom, DG, empowered FF and HG for max buff/ debuff.

    This is what I use as well.
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    @ prof. odd111out
    please keep it short, did i say that last time?
    3x 10% DR for 4sec, sure thats the tooltip, and i don´t want to get a second kaelac sorry
    so i recognize when i shot at the dummy oops my damage gets boosted
    right i did´n calculate how much it is all in all, so u have devellopers information, just define how it works correcly....
    u must be one of these people who has allways a superior position, just recognizte, 80% at least don´t share this opinion, or 90% sorry if i am notz exactly enough
    btw i never recognized 5 DC casting overlapping HG the same time at the same spot, no one would be that stupid, i can wait for 15 or 20 seconds doesn´t matter
    go hit the dragon with your hammer, i don´t mind, its your interpretation of gameplay
  • kacsaneverkacsanever Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 167 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    @ prof. odd111out
    please keep it short, did i say that last time?
    3x 10% DR for 4sec, sure thats the tooltip, and i don´t want to get a second kaelac sorry
    so i recognize when i shot at the dummy oops my damage gets boosted
    right i did´n calculate how much it is all in all, so u have devellopers information, just define how it works correcly....
    u must be one of these people who has allways a superior position, just recognizte, 80% at least don´t share this opinion, or 90% sorry if i am notz exactly enough
    btw i never recognized 5 DC casting overlapping HG the same time at the same spot, no one would be that stupid, i can wait for 15 or 20 seconds doesn´t matter
    go hit the dragon with your hammer, i don´t mind, its your interpretation of gameplay

    In short (tested): HP gives MIN 5,776%/stack w/ 0 Arpen in PvE. Max is 10*(1-DR_of_target_in_PVE) I think but did not want to waste more time. It is still fine. *NOTE: i am w/ you, just wanted to make it clear*
    Hundreds of + to the rest of your post.

    @odd111out
    Just play how you want, but don't be surprised when you are blamed. Sad but true, many of the DC players are doing what should be done will be blamed b/c of the behavior like yours. But meh, life is short and unfair ^^
  • plaviaplavia Member Posts: 540 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    I don't understand
    if you don't want to use HG and buff 25 ppl zerg
    when exactly do you think HG is useful?
  • mrvincent1959mrvincent1959 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 740 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Even after the nerfs, I use Hallowed ground ALL the time. It's a no-brainer in Tiamat at the heads. The question I have is - should I use Lantern Of Revelation at the head as well, or use Sigil Of The Devoted to build Action Points so HG can be used quicker? I have ALOT of Action Point Gain, so it comes up pretty quick by the way.

    Lantern Use: Deal damage and increase the damage they take by 16% for 6 seconds. (Legendary Version)
    Sigil Of The Devoted Use: Grant 80% of your Action Points over 15 seconds. (Mine is at rank 83)
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  • odd111outodd111out Member Posts: 173 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    @ prof. odd111out
    please keep it short, did i say that last time?
    3x 10% DR for 4sec, sure thats the tooltip, and i don´t want to get a second kaelac sorry
    so i recognize when i shot at the dummy oops my damage gets boosted
    right i did´n calculate how much it is all in all, so u have devellopers information, just define how it works correcly....
    u must be one of these people who has allways a superior position, just recognizte, 80% at least don´t share this opinion, or 90% sorry if i am notz exactly enough
    btw i never recognized 5 DC casting overlapping HG the same time at the same spot, no one would be that stupid, i can wait for 15 or 20 seconds doesn´t matter
    go hit the dragon with your hammer, i don´t mind, its your interpretation of gameplay

    I did my last run on Remedy last Saturday morning.

    How close has your interpretation of gameplay gotten you? When you are being met with a noticeable degree of failure, at what point will you reconsider your opinion? Because that's all you have in the end. Your opinion, your ad hominem attacks, your lack of adequate class or game knowledge.

    BTW, Anointed Champions don't have Hammer of Fate. As stated, I use Flamestrike/Guardian of Faith.

    http://laggygamerz.com/forum/index.php?/topic/13-advanced-combat-tracker-neverwinter/
  • odd111outodd111out Member Posts: 173 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    plavia wrote: »
    I don't understand
    if you don't want to use HG and buff 25 ppl zerg
    when exactly do you think HG is useful?

    It's fine for a Virt/Faithful to use, since they contribute little else to the run. Overall, Remedy was always in the top 5 for damage dealing (this isn't the chart on the end, which even after multiple ACT runs, I have no functional equation for). Though largely because of the other phases and not the heads per se.

    This is what in general it will look like on a successful full 25 no AFK 3 round victory for the Black Dragon Head:

    RemlastBDHDPS_zpsydpgzojj.png

    30% of the damage was done by 3 TRs with Duelist Flurry (25%) and 1 Stormwarden HR with Split the Sky (5%). What makes this really interesting is that I had been following around a Faithful DC who was using Hallowed Ground, so this damage is with HG down both times we hit the head. It's important to understand that you can be predestined to win or lose at the time your group loads in and no amount of buffs or debuffs will make a difference. If you don't load in with a certain % of those 25 people as certain classes using certain skills, you will lose no matter your cumulative GS. If you removed those 4 people and substituted 4 20K GS GWF we would have lost.

    For the technically curious, I broke down the difference between my 16k GS 6k Power Righteous AC-DC and this other person's 18K GS 8K Faithful DO-DC in 2 more posts below. (Sorry Mods for the multi posts.)
  • odd111outodd111out Member Posts: 173 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    ACT is a fascinating program and I recommend that people use it. Not to attack other players, but to give you a better idea about what is going on. I had a really good conversation with a GF for instance who was in love with his big orange numbers and thought he did the most damage with his Anvil. Really he did the most with Cleave (weapon damage is so important), only 29% with Anvil and 25% with Lunging Strike. For all his pots, buffs, and Knight's Challenge, that's only 4% between those 2 encounters.

    Overall, I used Flamestrike about 15 times and Guardian of Faith 6 times. She used Hallowed Ground 6 times and Flamestrike 3 times.

    Remedy's Last Run, Gear : DPS : HPS

    RemGEAR_zpsexswwal0.png

    DPS

    RemDPS_zpsf5u98vr9.png

    HPS

    5da4124e-587f-45a5-b587-8ee4c9f442bc_zpsryd7otew.png
  • odd111outodd111out Member Posts: 173 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    And the Faithful DO, 18k GS 8 Power. She placed 2nd on the chart at the end and I placed 6th. Go figure, but whatever equation is being used it's not DPS + Healing.

    Her Gear:

    MiraGEAR_zpsenda9h3z.png

    Her DPS: besides Hallowed Ground, she used Chains, Bastion, Divine Glow, and Flamestrike 3 times.

    MIRADPS_zps6qdf4qyn.png

    Her Healing:

    MIRAHPS_zpsrjfxcrob.png

    Food for thought, but back to my original point. I used Flamestrike to intercept the mobs before they hit the Clerics and I have the DPS to contribute considerably to clearing them. I use Guardian of Faith to heal the howling mob of TRs and HRs when they hit the dragon head, after running through all the poison, flames, and mobs to get there. Because keeping those TRs with Duelist Flurry alive will net you a better result that buffing those 15-20 other people.
  • pointsmanpointsman Member Posts: 2,327 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    odd111out wrote: »
    It's important to understand that you can be predestined to win or lose at the time your group loads in and no amount of buffs or debuffs will make a difference. If you don't load in with a certain % of those 25 people as certain classes using certain skills, you will lose no matter your cumulative GS. If you removed those 4 people and substituted 4 20K GS GWF we would have lost.

    I don't think this is entirely right and I think you might have cause and effect backwards.

    Here is an illustrative example.

    Suppose you have three TRs dishing out 20k unbuffed Lashing Blades. That is 60k of total damage.

    Now suppose you repalce two of those TRs and instead have one High Prophet DC and one MoF High Vizier CW. Let's suppose that the CW dishes out a 5k Icy Rays and the DC dishes out a 2k Forgemaster's Flame DOT. Okay, that's not terribly impressive compared to the 20k Lashing Blades, right?

    But, if the DC is applying HP stacks (30% buff), using Hallowed Ground (35% buff), and 3xdivine Divine Glow (15% buff), and the CW is applying HV stacks (30% buff) and slotting Swath of Destruction and applying Smolder (15% buff), then the total damage output is:

    (20k+5k+2k)*(1+0.35+0.3+0.3)*(1+0.3+0.15) = 76k!

    And those aren't even the extent of the buffs/debuffs that are possible. There's also the CW Bitter Cold feat, the DC Empowered FF buff, etc.

    But if you look at ACT, you would see that the TR did most of the damage, and so you might conclude "ZOMG that CW and DC were worthless, without that TR, we would have failed for sure! Therefore let's ditch the useless CW and DC and bring in more TR's!" But that would be an incorrect conclusion.

    So I think you have concluded that because TRs did most of the damage, that they are the most valuable assets to the team. That is only part of the story. The buffed TR was the biggest damage dealer, but without the buffs, the TR's effectiveness would have been dramatically reduced. You're better off having fewer TRs that are buffed, than you are just stacking more unbuffed TRs.

    Edit: And back to topic at hand: Note that of the buffs given above, that Hallowed Ground is the biggest of them all.
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    most of the players, even high geared are "squishies " if not buffed by damage resistance or Damage boost (--> more selfheal)
    think the green and the blue head wipes out lots of high geared player when crusing through the aoe, so what would be better 15% mitigation/DR or a "Hammer" that doesn´t prevent anyone from beeing onehittet (left Dragon head)
    so lots of theorycrafting and ACT-missunderstanding, sometimes its better to read the tooltext...
    keep it short please again, its not better posting hundreds of coulorfull maps and words without making sense
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