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Tiamat`s lag — How it looks [147s gameplay]

beatannierbeatannier Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 692 Arc User
edited April 2015 in Bug Reports (PC)
Below I attach how does lag on Tiamat looks.
This insane lag occurs 90% runs, but meets only 10 (or less)% of players (according to what we see inside Tiamat and on forum reports).
Gameplay:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWgI94b8cEw — 2:27 gameplay 1080p FULL HD

If you never met thousands (literally) of deaths during Tiamat, don`t post until watching at least the very few seconds of the gameplay.

Just wanted to show how it looks like from the people with lower internet connection speed.
Since keys are rebound and fall, can`t do anything and just keep dieing until Tiamat ends.

Insane lag followed by key rebind and death wave usually appears right after lowering the first, black head (while moving onto the green head).

TLDR; Goto 1:18

PS
Even if most time just keep dieing, still get a reward (and often Linu`s Favor) as keep getting points (for getting damage?). Often placing about 15th place just by dieing.
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • joocycuzzzzzzjoocycuzzzzzz Member Posts: 577 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    I've never got any of that... really weird. What triggers it exactly?

    I know the insane lag is Astral Seal + The feat, but what the hell messes up the movement?

    SO glad I've been done with that sorry excuse of a "Raid" since 2 weeks.
    Beta player

    One of the many Control Wizards that misses Shard Of The Endless Avalanche. RIP Shard (Beta-Mod3)
  • charononuscharononus Member Posts: 5,715 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Holy <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. I've experienced the cleric lag before, it's why I won't go into Tiamat again till dc's are fixed. But wow never seen anything like that die over and over thing before.
  • d4rthd00fusd4rthd00fus Member Posts: 453 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Yea I know that lag well. Havent found settings that help, but its not graphics, nothing is really happening on screen sometimes as the video shows.

    Its Astral Seal made much worse with the effects of burning guidance affecting sometimes 25ppl at once that supposedly creates the slowdown as the connection to the server gets flooded with data.

    Oh and seriously need to think about healing yourself sometime. Never seen so many injuries o.0
  • mehguy138mehguy138 Member Posts: 1,803 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Yeap, I get this too sometimes. Game's running perfectly on max settings, and then suddenly boom! 1 FPS. Lowering settings to minimum doesn't help.
    M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
  • drinnthdrinnth Member Posts: 227 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    I believe this has something to do with the current graphics engine system used by the Cryptic engine. The game has a certain "texture budget". This is the maximum number of textures allowed on screen at any one time. For some reason, the programmers for the Tiamat encounter, either did not know or ignored the "texture budget". In this case, when spells like Astral Seal and Knight's Valor are cast and add extra textures to the screen, they go over the maximum budget and cause interface internally created visual lag. The only fix would be to reduce the texture load on screen. They would either need to nerf the visuals of spells or what is currently being view on screen to reduce the strain on the graphics subsystem. This is why graphic settings have no effect upon this type of lag since even the lowest resolution versions of the textures are still breaking the texture budget limit. You would have to have a complete understanding of graphic subsystem mechanics to have a better idea of what is going on. I hope the developers make a decision soon and correct this error soon.
  • finmakinfinmakin Member Posts: 456 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Perhaps it sounds a bit weird but it is no trolling from my side.

    I never have any lag in the Temple even with AS and KV, the only thing i sometimes have is that the heads are dissapearing and im tanking a ghost.
    Think i will make a vid too
    Ogguk The Beholder… Justicar Paladin Tank/ Healer
  • pelgraxpelgrax Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 486 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Yeah , since the last maintenance I have been experiencing massive LAG / even 0 FPS - only during the Tiamat encounter .

    NOT having issues anywhere else .
    Nothing has changed on my end ( loadout / computer / routing etc ) .
    Just some serious problems when in Tiamat .
  • urterrorurterror Member Posts: 77 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Most of times I try Tiamat is a rage..
    Everything works good (the video setting is all "low"), and when we are at the Clerics most times starts the lag without any reason until all moving on heads..
    paladin_signature_by_whiitelotus-d330x28.png

    | Cìrdan - GF | Cìrdan The Lightbringer - OP |
    < Guild: Pugno Fiammante >
  • caunsidhcaunsidh Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 272 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    beatannier wrote: »
    snip.

    What have you shown us in your video is not lag, but severe FPS drop caused by inability of your computer to render graphics.
    Would you mind posting your PC's specifications?

    As for the solution to your problem, you should lower your graphic settings before entering Temple of Tiamat, and restoring them to previous settings afterwards.
    Therenil - Hunter Ranger, Stormwarden/Trapper
    3.jpg
  • candinho2candinho2 Member Posts: 550 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    beatannier wrote: »
    Below I attach how does lag on Tiamat looks.
    This insane lag occurs 90% runs, but meets only 10 (or less)% of players (according to what we see inside Tiamat and on forum reports).
    Gameplay:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWgI94b8cEw — 2:27 gameplay 1080p FULL HD

    If you never met thousands (literally) of deaths during Tiamat, don`t post until watching at least the very few seconds of the gameplay.

    Just wanted to show how it looks like from the people with lower internet connection speed.
    Since keys are rebound and fall, can`t do anything and just keep dieing until Tiamat ends.

    Insane lag followed by key rebind and death wave usually appears right after lowering the first, black head (while moving onto the green head).

    TLDR; Goto 1:18

    PS
    Even if most time just keep dieing, still get a reward (and often Linu`s Favor) as keep getting points (for getting damage?). Often placing about 15th place just by dieing.

    The only thing u can do is config/advanced/ on Boom Intencity, lower it to min, then go to graphics, and set max objects to 2, then hit Alt+Enter, so the game will adjust the ress. of your screen. it solve the problem sometimes. And take a look at advanced tab on video memory limit, sometimes it's reseted to 128mb wich make you lag like hell.
  • imasunriseimasunrise Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    caunsidh wrote: »
    What have you shown us in your video is not lag, but severe FPS drop caused by inability of your computer to render graphics.
    Would you mind posting your PC's specifications?

    As for the solution to your problem, you should lower your graphic settings before entering Temple of Tiamat, and restoring them to previous settings afterwards.


    It has nothing to do with the PC's specifications. I can pay Crysis 3 in Full HD and in Timat i have sometimes 1 Frame. It is more like a Problem with the Cryptic engine.
  • lirithiellirithiel Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,482 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    caunsidh wrote: »
    What have you shown us in your video is not lag, but severe FPS drop caused by inability of your computer to render graphics.
    Would you mind posting your PC's specifications?

    As for the solution to your problem, you should lower your graphic settings before entering Temple of Tiamat, and restoring them to previous settings afterwards.

    I love how people immediately point to the user's pc as the problem...

    The same happens to me and the only way I can fix it momentarily is to jump off a ledge and respawn inside the temple. Once though it was so bad I still couldn't move from the spawn point - and this after I lowered all my settings to minimum and used the /reduce_mip 1 command. Glad to be done with Tiamat on 2 of my 3 toons. CBA about boons 6 and 7.
    Our pain is self chosen.

    The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
  • beatannierbeatannier Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 692 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    What I just wanted to add, its independent on PC nor most graphic settings.
    drinnth propably describbed the details of issue.
    drinnth wrote: »
    I believe this has something to do with the current graphics engine system used by the Cryptic engine. The game has a certain "texture budget". This is the maximum number of textures allowed on screen at any one time. For some reason, the programmers for the Tiamat encounter, either did not know or ignored the "texture budget". In this case, when spells like Astral Seal and Knight's Valor are cast and add extra textures to the screen, they go over the maximum budget and cause interface internally created visual lag. The only fix would be to reduce the texture load on screen. They would either need to nerf the visuals of spells or what is currently being view on screen to reduce the strain on the graphics subsystem. This is why graphic settings have no effect upon this type of lag since even the lowest resolution versions of the textures are still breaking the texture budget limit. You would have to have a complete understanding of graphic subsystem mechanics to have a better idea of what is going on. I hope the developers make a decision soon and correct this error soon.

    Especially in comparation to advice from the dev about Tiamat:
    panderus wrote: »
    I don't believe it will have the entire effect we want. Some of the other changes we are working on were too risky to try and push live in such a short time frame without enough testing.

    One thing you can try is one of these things temporarily to try and snag some extra performance out of the fight:

    /reduce_mip 1 (/reduce_mip 0 to reverse)
    This reduces the texture mip level used by all textures that are drawn. The end result is that the game is a little blurrier (characters and environment).

    Options | Advanced | Character Detail
    Lower this option to 50%. This does something similar to /reduce_mip 1, but just for characters and not for FX or the environment. Setting this to 50% will likely produce the same exact result as setting /reduce_mip 1, but without sacrificing environment or FX visual fidelity.
  • mmm1001mmm1001 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 497 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    drinnth wrote: »
    I believe this has something to do with the current graphics engine system used by the Cryptic engine. The game has a certain "texture budget". This is the maximum number of textures allowed on screen at any one time. For some reason, the programmers for the Tiamat encounter, either did not know or ignored the "texture budget". In this case, when spells like Astral Seal and Knight's Valor are cast and add extra textures to the screen, they go over the maximum budget and cause interface internally created visual lag. The only fix would be to reduce the texture load on screen. They would either need to nerf the visuals of spells or what is currently being view on screen to reduce the strain on the graphics subsystem. This is why graphic settings have no effect upon this type of lag since even the lowest resolution versions of the textures are still breaking the texture budget limit. You would have to have a complete understanding of graphic subsystem mechanics to have a better idea of what is going on. I hope the developers make a decision soon and correct this error soon.

    Th problem is not and never was in textures. The problems is in server performance, calculating too many and too complex damages/heals at same time. Things like KV and AS influence all damage and all heals in their area of effect, which increases significantly complexity of calculations and server starts lagging.
  • d4rthd00fusd4rthd00fus Member Posts: 453 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    mmm1001 wrote: »
    Th problem is not and never was in textures. The problems is in server performance, calculating too many and too complex damages/heals at same time. Things like KV and AS influence all damage and all heals in their area of effect, which increases significantly complexity of calculations and server starts lagging.

    I'm really hoping the devs aren't still looking at this as if it's a pure graphical issue (or no longer looking at it at all). It has nothing to do with graphics other than it seems to get a bit worse if your settings are too high. The problem itself is the interactions of the various powers on too many players at once. I go in with the sliders to zero, post, bloom and all extras turned off on a mad dog pc and I still can get literally frozen in place and killed by targeted AOEs. Even the menus become completely unresponsive. This happens even when nothing but level geometry is being displayed on the screen.

    Telling to tell ppl to adjust their settings isn't helpful. Getting DCs to stop using AS in the fight is helpful.
  • caunsidhcaunsidh Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 272 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    imasunrise wrote: »
    It has nothing to do with the PC's specifications.
    lirithiel wrote: »
    I love how people immediately point to the user's pc as the problem...

    FPS drop shown in OP's video is caused by poor PC performance, however, if you feel like it, you can just keep on yelling at people for using Astral Seal and crossing the red line.

    In the mean time, OP should consider using injury kits, as injuries cause poor player performance.
    Therenil - Hunter Ranger, Stormwarden/Trapper
    3.jpg
  • charononuscharononus Member Posts: 5,715 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    caunsidh wrote: »
    FPS drop shown in OP's video is caused by poor PC performance, however, if you feel like it, you can just keep on yelling at people for using Astral Seal and crossing the red line.

    In the mean time, OP should consider using injury kits, as injuries cause poor player performance.

    Maybe I misunderstood but I thought the op was saying he got bugged and was in a death loop.
  • caunsidhcaunsidh Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 272 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    charononus wrote: »
    Maybe I misunderstood but I thought the op was saying he got bugged and was in a death loop.

    Well, I'm rather tired of seeing people complain about the lag all the time, and that is why I only adressed the "lag" part of OP's post, however I do admit that his problem is rather peculiar.

    Sorry for the offtopic.
    Therenil - Hunter Ranger, Stormwarden/Trapper
    3.jpg
  • cjh1983cjh1983 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 229 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    mmm1001 wrote: »
    Th problem is not and never was in textures. The problems is in server performance, calculating too many and too complex damages/heals at same time. Things like KV and AS influence all damage and all heals in their area of effect, which increases significantly complexity of calculations and server starts lagging.

    Lol, no, the server isn't doing "more math". This is one of the most ignorant things I've seen on this forum.
  • mmm1001mmm1001 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 497 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    cjh1983 wrote: »
    Lol, no, the server isn't doing "more math". This is one of the most ignorant things I've seen on this forum.

    Actually I made a packet sniffer to see what is happening during lag spikes. Server is just not sending data, which means it is either overloaded doing something else or it's network is overloaded. there is no difference in traffic when someone activates KV, so it has to be server performance problem.
  • landoras1975landoras1975 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 88 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Can only concur, Tiamat always lag, but never(almost) anywhere else, except for bugs.
  • vinceent1vinceent1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,264 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    caunsidh wrote: »
    Well, I'm rather tired of seeing people complain about the lag all the time, and that is why I only adressed the "lag" part of OP's post, however I do admit that his problem is rather peculiar.

    Sorry for the offtopic.

    its not constant lag as you can see some people have for months. characters suddenly froze (funny it look like figures at respen game) and cant move or have lag spikes but cant even coordinate direction. you may want hide near fire camp to prevent bug instance for everybody else, but your toon slightly move opposite direction and end over the cliff. then he froze and you cant even respawn. for one minute..... for 5 minute ... you can maybe couse bugged instance couse you are behind red line. when you finally respawn, you can only stand or lay there, looks like you only afk. this is tiamat lag....
  • lewstelamon01lewstelamon01 Member Posts: 7,415 Arc User
    edited January 2015
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  • zildan7905zildan7905 Member Posts: 40 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    when I have KV on I dont get astral lag. Weather I have kv on or off when astral lag is cast my screen locks up for 5-7 seconds then oops, im dead, again. I have turned both video sliders to min, tried all video modes and it happens in either windowed or FS, so I leave it in FS. Astral Lag also happens during any Chromatic Dragon (dayly dragon runs/dragon prix) battle where there are greater than 5 players around. AS was *NOT* meant for 25 players on one big head :P What about that DC relevance again? I'd like to know.
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