As a GF pile on the HPs... the TR that hit me for 39.8k yesterday probably knew he was about to have a bad day when I was still at 40% health.
Well you have 66k health as a GF I'm assuming (don't think anyother class can get that high) so since you're so devoted in to defense then how did you kill the TR after he hit you for that hard, (assuming you're talking about a one shot TR) didn't he have Shadow Sttike to go back in to stealth?
Ok, so i guess the best way is to stay away from PVP at least for now.
There's no way for me to block invisible TR.
Too bad, I don't know what to look forward in this game anymore; screwed PVP, boring PvE/dailies.
so we are back at the point being unable to see a onhit wonder, come on i need some post again, like:
"you have to feel the TR",
or "just allways think one step further",
meditate before PVPing, probably you can shortcut the way between your hand and your cortex to gain some milliseconds
or just block in every direction
....this is just redicules
The devs aren't dumb, not dumb enough to overlook something so broken, yes.. TR damage to GS scale isn't just OP, it's broken.
Just look at mod 4 and 5, no real new and meaningful content, re-used assets and what is blaring obviously a tactic to mooch more money out of the solidified players. People who are committed to this game.
FotM cycle is good for keeping a game alive that might not be getting alot of new customers, but it needs to be convincing enough for the player to actually re-roll and buy those extra bank slots.. and extra bags.. refine artifacts.. etc etc.
Call me a conspiracy theorist, but the mooching has been strong for a while now, and I feel as such a large design flaw couldn't be an accident.
The devs aren't dumb, not dumb enough to overlook something so broken, yes.. TR damage to GS scale isn't just OP, it's broken.
Just look at mod 4 and 5, no real new and meaningful content, re-used assets and what is blaring obviously a tactic to mooch more money out of the solidified players. People who are committed to this game.
FotM cycle is good for keeping a game alive that might not be getting alot of new customers, but it needs to be convincing enough for the player to actually re-roll and buy those extra bank slots.. and extra bags.. refine artifacts.. etc etc.
Call me a conspiracy theorist, but the mooching has been strong for a while now, and I feel as such a large design flaw couldn't be an accident.
Could be wrong though /shrug
Not wrong, you are spot on actually
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
I think its sad when people start sayimg there os nothing they can do... Each class has 3-5 ways to survive the initial attack counter and win...
O rly?
And when the TR nails you in the back while you are otherwise engaged? Because that is what most of the TRs are doing, running around the map and getting insta-kills on opponents that do not see them coming. I've been one-shotted many times or killed by multiple SoD procs while fighting someone else. As a GF that is what they do to me. Block and all that HP means diddly HAMSTER if the TR hits me in the back when I don't even know he is there. What other class can run around and kill a GF with one hit?
Yep. TRs get their uncontested kills while you try and get rid of the DC.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
every game where there are 4 trs in game makes me so frustrated i wana puke, so what if you dodge the one shot they still outdamage/tank me. They put everything in one class, and i have the feeling they are doing it intentionally not so hard to nerf one or two abilities by a bit but instead they let it drag on for months. I think its time to quit this game, its going nowhere.
If u r in the small map, put your back stick will the wall at node 1or 3, it will heple you a little bit.:D
I have a 16 k mi tr and a 16k wk tr, for all tough player that I had been fight, no matter what class they are, they all have one comment: use jump to dodgy attacks, all their movement are jumping, they never walk or run:rolleyes:
Sirs, it is pretty clear that at this point there's not much people can do unless the devs roll-back on a few design choices which I view to be very poor. It's evident that the Executioner path isn't really working out too well in terms of balance.
1. SoD issues
Its been months since mod5 release and yet they still can't get Shadow of Demise to work properly, and it's either bugged or useless. At this point I'm wondering if it would actually be more worthwhile for us TRs to have SoD switched to something else, perhaps a different buff/debuff type of effect that is not associated with direct damage. Perhaps a lingering buff that conceptualizes that the victim was hit so severely that he/she is slowed, weakened, or whatever type of combat condition that would benefit the TR in a profound manner, but not cram in more damage.
2. Lashing Blades
As for the "1-shot terror" that is LB, I feel that upgrading the strength of both the First Strike buff AND the crit severity of LB at the same time, was clearly a mistake. As a TR, I do feel that (in a very traditional sense), the 'assassin' or 'stealthy' classes SHOULD be the terror of all lightly armored classes as a whole. However, I also feel that in contrast, a class with very high defense specs and/or high HP, that is tough enough to survive a massive alpha-strike, should be a very difficult opponent for the 'assassin/stealthy' class to fight against.
The problem is the double buffs of First Strike + innate 50% crit severity, PLUS an additional double-power rating buff from Shadowborn, and THEN all combined with the double-proc SoD, usually results in a damage so severe as to provide a decisive advantage against even heavily defended opponents.
When assuming all related parties at the 19~21k GS range, 40k HP for the TR and the CW, and 55~60k range for the GF/GWF.. I feel that an adequate range of damage with a First Strike assisted LB should be around 28k against a non-TAB-shielded CW, and 15k range for the two fighter classes, with no extra SoD assisted damage incoming.
...
My opinion is that they should roll-back and remove the innate 50% crit severity buff to LB used in stealth, and then get rid of the double-power Shadow Born buff AND the SoD piercing damage proc. Instead, buff First Strike to 75% from 60%, which will force most TRs who still want quite high alpha-strike damage to use this Class Feature. What this means, is that when a TR wants to deal very high alpha-strike, he/she will need to make a choice as to replace one of his/her Class Features to First Strike.
What the Exec should be getting, IMO, is not a super-high damage as a result of a singular attack, but a much, much higher potential to deal damage than other paths as a result of sustained attacks. IMO SoD should be sort of like "Marked for Death" type of combined buff/debuff that strengthens the Exec TR's attacks against the target for a designated time.
So if the Exec is gutsy enough to risk CONTINUING his attacks after his first LB or whatever alpha-strike he chooses, then it should result in a very high damage in total. But if the Exec just chooses to LB and run, LB and run, rinse and repeat, then its effects should be much lower than it is currently seen.
...
Oh, and of course, Shocking Execution is simply an embarrassment to all decent TRs. People using that DC artifact and start swinging these broken dailies around, simply should be ashamed IMO. The "2nd use possible if killed with 1st use" part is pretty neat and interesting, but the way it deals damage should be changed.
So, i'm a GF. Grim PVP set, 15k+ GS... Then a TR just came out from nowhere and 1 Hit kill me(from full hp), or best cut 90% of my HP just to follow by a smoke bomb daze and I died. I cannot even put up my guard...
I am a tank, it does not make sense for a tank to not even survive a one shot attack.
Please don't start talking nonsense like my HP is low,no tenacity or whatsoever.
Just take the fact that a TR can 1 hit shot even a (moderate) tank.
Then, How am i supposed to fight this? This is becoming more frustrating...
Anyway, If you ever notice that PVP now is in a very sad state. 2/5 of a party are TRs.
Even TRs with ~9K were spotted, and they own people with much better equips just fine using the same tactic mentioned..
You are playing the weakest class against the second strongest class so thats gonna happen. I am sure you got your face melted by plenty of clerics who might take a second longer to kill you but who simply almost cannot be killed by anything. And you are playing the gf, the second worst class. It is going to happen.
If you were any other class you could dodge, if you were a cw you would have shield which would entirely nullify the lashing or shocking that killed you, if you were hr you probably would have had fox cunning up and simply deflected, if you were an sw you would have died because that is a weak class also.
PvP is not broken, it is not even entirely unbalanced (other than matchmaking), what it lacks is parity.
You are playing the weakest class against the second strongest class so thats gonna happen. I am sure you got your face melted by plenty of clerics who might take a second longer to kill you but who simply almost cannot be killed by anything. And you are playing the gf, the second worst class. It is going to happen.
If you were any other class you could dodge, if you were a cw you would have shield which would entirely nullify the lashing or shocking that killed you, if you were hr you probably would have had fox cunning up and simply deflected, if you were an sw you would have died because that is a weak class also.
PvP is not broken, it is not even entirely unbalanced (other than matchmaking), what it lacks is parity.
Rubbish. Yes, we are weak and by design will struggle against a TR (it is ideally suited to exploit on of our biggest weaknesses; lack of mobility) but it is utter rubbish that TRs should be one and two-shotting a tank. My 19k GF can kill anything at that GS - even 1 or 2k above that - EXCEPT for a TR and a DC. I've been one-shotted by 11 and 12k TRs with the fraction of the gear I have. And there are GFs with even more gear than myself that suffer the same fate.
Ask yourself this, of the other classes, what 11 - 12k GS toon can kill a 15k+ tank in one hit? The answer is none. 12k Sentinels pretty much do zero damage. A 12k SW will kill itself in seconds against Supremacy of Steel/Guarded Assault combo as its defence would be puny. Unless it is a Trapper, a 12k HR would be tickling you.
TR is broken. Stop trying to defend it. It operates way above its GS.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
Rubbish. Yes, we are weak and by design will struggle against a TR (it is ideally suited to exploit on of our biggest weaknesses; lack of mobility) but it is utter rubbish that TRs should be one and two-shotting a tank. My 19k GF can kill anything at that GS - even 1 or 2k above that - EXCEPT for a TR and a DC. I've been one-shotted by 11 and 12k TRs with the fraction of the gear I have. And there are GFs with even more gear than myself that suffer the same fate.
Ask yourself this, of the other classes, what 11 - 12k GS toon can kill a 15k+ tank in one hit? The answer is none. 12k Sentinels pretty much do zero damage. A 12k SW will kill itself in seconds against Supremacy of Steel/Guarded Assault combo as its defence would be puny. Unless it is a Trapper, a 12k HR would be tickling you.
TR is broken. Stop trying to defend it. It operates way above its GS.
Sir, personally I am a TR that thinks the 1-shot capability of Executioners need to be fixed to a more affordable form. That being said I would like to remind you a few things that should be considered, in all fairness, lest an infuriated response towards TRs and TR players without such consideration does naught but simply breeds hatred and animosity, much less solve a problem.
The first thing to be considered would be the credibility of GS as performance standards, which I believe a lot of the players, especially those with experience, regards it 'shaky'[/i at best. It's sort of like viewing your reflection upon a 500 year old, hammer-formed copper plate. Through all those curves, ins, outs, rust and erosion, at best what you can see would be a silhouette with certain features barely noticeable. That's what I think the GS is.
Sir, some people have already mentioned in this thread that different classes increase in GS at different rates. I remember about a year ago, where the "high-end" of PvP was considered to be around 14~15k. In that environment many TRs were struggling to break past the 13.9k point to get into 14k, whilst GFs and GWFs were already at 17~18k. I know for certain that generally fighter classes are much more 'responsive' to changes in gear/items, and usually any thing that has to do with HP would easily buff a few hundred GS, whilst for TRs, getting the GS to go up higher is actually pretty difficult.
What I mean to say, sir, is that usually it is entirely possible for a TR with around 2~3k lower GS than a GWF/GF, to have actually almost identical tier of gear as those fighters. In terms of relative performance, I would guess a TR that is lower than 2~3k GS than yourself, would actually be within 5% difference in relative performance.
As an example, I remember that when my TR was at 18k, it already had 38k HP and around 5.5k power. I finally got legendary grade artifact weapon for both hands, upgraded a few r8s to r9s, and a smaller number of r9s to r10s... and then this change was enough to push me to 20k GS, a great 2k increase --- but in terms of actual performance, I probably became stronger by around 5~7% IIRC.
...
The second part I bid you to consider, sir, is that certain aspects of combat is unaffected by GS. A CW may deal quite lower damage in general when he/she is at lower GS, but his/her CC capacity remains the same. The CCs it deals on you will not be halved or quartered just because you have twice the GS than that CW. Much the same, buffs/debuffs that effect the target at a set percentage are not effected by GS... and of course, sir, stealth is also unaffected by GS, since you don't get to see through a TR's stealth just because you have higher GS.
What this means, sir, is that certain conditions of combat which has tactical value will still remain. Whether or he/she is of lower or higher GS than you, an invisible TR is invisible, and hence, the advantage stealth provides, the element of surprise, will remain constant. In this case TRs naturally benefit from this, at least this much cannot be denied.
Many players in PvP are actually typical PvE players, and it is actually entirely common to find PvE players solely geared towards power/damage, rather than survival. I've seen some extreme cases of some TRs that were at only 16k GS, but their power was at 7k ! I have a 20k GS TR, and I barely reach 6k, and this is a result of actually investing in some rad enchants for power.
Sir, I would like to emphasize that it is common to find such TRs, whom usually dabble in power levels much higher than PvP-oriented players of the same gear level. And it is only a matter of coincidence that the "1-shot path" they choose, the Executioner, is simply designed in such a way that lower GS doesn't really matter.
Sir, many TR players in PvP, are not actually full blown PvP players, and have a build/spec just as unoptimized for PvP as any other. But being PvE builds, they do have higher power than usual, and what happens is that if these players were using any other builds like Sabos or Scoundrels, they would not be able to see much success... and basically what they are, they are "suicide-bomber" type of builds by going Executioners. They're glass cannons, not really suited for survival, but if they have that opportunity, yes, Sir, they will be able to deal damage high enough to strike down a player with much higher GS.
Sir, I bid you consider the above.
Yes, I do also believe the 1-shot powers should be tamed down for the greater good, but the problem that is presented is hardly the TRs fault, nor is it their players, nor is the problem exclusive to TRs only. Stealth-type classes will always be able to hold that tactical element of surprise, and "fighting on their own terms". This is what the class is by definition, and what it is designed for.
Blaming that and pointing the finger at those attributes as something to be nerfed, Sir, is simply denying us TRs our very existence at a fundamental level, sir. No matter how much things are balanced and fixed, us TRs will always be able to hit you when you are the weakest, and when that happens you will find that you lose more to TRs than you win -- it's because us TRs will always try to attack you when we can win, and you'll probably lose.
At that point, many of you will feel that the TR is still powerful... Please remember, many many gentlemen reading this, that when that happens, it's not because we're overpowered.
It's just because that is what we are. That is our modus operandi -- we attack you when we are overwhelmingly advantageous. It is only natural that you feel weak and endangered when we attack you at these moments.
So I bid you sir, and other gentlemen reading this, please do not confuse those which are undeniably OP and needs to be addressed, and other situations where you are likely to lose to TRs. There is a clear difference, but I am sad to see more and more posts in this forum simply confuse those two, and just simply mash together all the instances where one loses, and then takes fault with the TR as being "OP".
is that a vid were u beat bis tr as cw
and tr needs a nerf ?
can u post cw one shoting gwf also
Stop babbling. before This i was fighting with Friend from guild 23k CW- Kires, and i won many times. Maby Ice knife from CW is to big but even on GWF you can reduce its damage to funny numbers. besides it respect all kind of resistance and can be deflected.
Dont try to change the course of the conversation, we are here becouse TR with rank 5 and blue neck and belt can one shot end game characters.
PS. Maybe some feedback from Devs. You can although tell what is your point of view becouse silent is worst thing nowadays.
You mention TRs in PVP using PVE builds and gear to take advantage of their power. This is the first problem. EVERY other class in PVP has to spec specifically for PVP to compete. Example, my GF. Yes, he's not the best geared GF in the world, but he is geared for PVP. 19k, full Purified, artifact offhand that gives me more regen and more guard (those two are pretty useless in most of PVE), 55K HP, 47% DR, 24% Deflec, Tenacity neck and rings. Artifacts are all survival artifacts; HP, regen, recovery with some power and arpen. Now, and this has happened, in comes a 12k TR using a PVE build and low gear and he can kill me in one or two hits, completely negating every bit of PVP-specific defence I have.
Yes, some classes scale differently, I understand that. But I am getting one and two shotted by a TR that has 7k less GS than me. Not 2k less. Not 4k less. 7k less. No other class is like this. Yes, a 12k CW can still control you, but he isn't killing you with 2 hits.
Skill, yes, I do not doubt there are some players out there that have been playing TR for a year and know everything. However, there are things about the TR that are not related to skill. 100% Stealth Crit can ensure the stupidest TR player can deliver devastating hits on an opponent that does not know he is there. Then we have that Shadow of Demise proc. That has killed me while I'm trying to get to a health pot. The TR isn't even attacking me anymore and I drop dead from 2 SoD procs that should not be happening.
And yes, TRs are designed to hunt from the shadows and hit us in our weak spots, but when I have full 55k HP, full PVP gear and one hit either kills me or nearly kills me, that is not normal, especially when it comes from baby TRs. If 18 - 22k TRs were doing this then it is fine.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
Like others have said, every new module comes with a new OP class, considering we have been in this module for a few months, I think the new OP class is soon to get here and TRs will be brought back to earth.
So just have patience XD
You mention TRs in PVP using PVE builds and gear to take advantage of their power. This is the first problem. EVERY other class in PVP has to spec specifically for PVP to compete. Example, my GF. Yes, he's not the best geared GF in the world, but he is geared for PVP. 19k, full Purified, artifact offhand that gives me more regen and more guard (those two are pretty useless in most of PVE), 55K HP, 47% DR, 24% Deflec, Tenacity neck and rings. Artifacts are all survival artifacts; HP, regen, recovery with some power and arpen. Now, and this has happened, in comes a 12k TR using a PVE build and low gear and he can kill me in one or two hits, completely negating every bit of PVP-specific defence I have.
Sir, I believe I've made it clear that not many TRs really advocate that kind of thing as being normal. Like every other players, the TR players are not of a singular hive-mind. Rather, many decent players have different views on the current situation, and many of them are of the same opinion that do not wish to be viewed as those who defend stuff like 30k lashing blades with a double proc of 15k SoD bug, or stuff like easy-mode insta-refill of AP with the DC artifact and then bam! a First-Strike assisted Shocking Execution that hits for 56k.
Bugs need to be fixed, over-kill 1-shot attacks due to poor design choices need to be rolled back. Not many contest this.
But rather, the TR players are more and more being forced into the corner with hatred and prejudice that does not differentiate between legitimate, constructive criticism of things that need duly be nerfed, and the brutal "nerf, kill, destroy everything I hate about TRs" sentiment.
We'd really like to form a consensus so these 'overkill stuff' can be fixed ASAP, but when some players view this as a chance to simply take away EVERYTHING from the TRs that makes us TRs, then many TRs feel so threatened as to have no choice -- we have to be defensive as a whole.
All I am asking is take it, let's take it step by step.
Let's first form a consensus on the most immediate, broken stuff like (1) double-proc SoD bugs, (2) easy-fill AP artifacts and (3) its synergy with super-deadly dailies like BB or SE, (4) and another synergy with these super-deadly dailies PLUS Executioner builds.
...and then, when people are a bit calmed down, we can discuss further fixes if necessary. Too many people are on edge, with their views on TRs muddied and bloodied by these broken stuff, sir.
Yes, some classes scale differently, I understand that. But I am getting one and two shotted by a TR that has 7k less GS than me. Not 2k less. Not 4k less. 7k less. No other class is like this. Yes, a 12k CW can still control you, but he isn't killing you with 2 hits.
Skill, yes, I do not doubt there are some players out there that have been playing TR for a year and know everything. However, there are things about the TR that are not related to skill. 100% Stealth Crit can ensure the stupidest TR player can deliver devastating hits on an opponent that does not know he is there. Then we have that Shadow of Demise proc. That has killed me while I'm trying to get to a health pot. The TR isn't even attacking me anymore and I drop dead from 2 SoD procs that should not be happening.
And yes, TRs are designed to hunt from the shadows and hit us in our weak spots, but when I have full 55k HP, full PVP gear and one hit either kills me or nearly kills me, that is not normal, especially when it comes from baby TRs. If 18 - 22k TRs were doing this then it is fine.
...and basically everything you've stated refers back to these 1-shot Executioner builds.
Sir, I'd like to remind you that when stuff first came out, it was a group of us decent TRs who were the very first to point out to the developers that Sabo builds or Executioner builds need a fix.
If only people would stop antagonizing us TRs as a whole, and demand nerfs to every part of us as a whole. I sincerely wish people to calm down, and start talking about stuff based on actual figures, facts, and etc.. and when it comes to facts, us TRs -- many of us -- agree that 40~50k attacks that just snuff out even GFs or GWFs with 1-shot attacks... aren't right.
Rubbish. Yes, we are weak and by design will struggle against a TR (it is ideally suited to exploit on of our biggest weaknesses; lack of mobility) but it is utter rubbish that TRs should be one and two-shotting a tank. My 19k GF can kill anything at that GS - even 1 or 2k above that - EXCEPT for a TR and a DC. I've been one-shotted by 11 and 12k TRs with the fraction of the gear I have. And there are GFs with even more gear than myself that suffer the same fate.
Ask yourself this, of the other classes, what 11 - 12k GS toon can kill a 15k+ tank in one hit? The answer is none. 12k Sentinels pretty much do zero damage. A 12k SW will kill itself in seconds against Supremacy of Steel/Guarded Assault combo as its defence would be puny. Unless it is a Trapper, a 12k HR would be tickling you.
TR is broken. Stop trying to defend it. It operates way above its GS.
Mr rock, meet mr paper. You have described rock paper scissors class balance in this game, perfectly.
TR does not need to be burned to the ground as a class, GF needs to be made stronger. I can hit a cw with what normally would result in a 40k+ crit, and because of shield, the attack does no damage and I get cc'd into oblivion (paper meet scissors). That should be the issue, that the tankiest class in the game is so easily wiped out by the same exact attack that one of the squishiest classes in the game simply shrugs off.
Mr rock, meet mr paper. You have described rock paper scissors class balance in this game, perfectly.
TR does not need to be burned to the ground as a class, GF needs to be made stronger. I can hit a cw with what normally would result in a 40k+ crit, and because of shield, the attack does no damage and I get cc'd into oblivion (paper meet scissors). That should be the issue, that the tankiest class in the game is so easily wiped out by the same exact attack that one of the squishiest classes in the game simply shrugs off.
Exept that its 4 Trs in each match now whish leaves 6 spots for the other 6 classes.
Have you been playing domination lately and seen what is going on in matches because your argument is so far off I seems like you lack a reality check.
There is a reason that a class has almost 40% of the spots out of 10 in premades out of 7 classes and it starts with a O and end with a P.
Exept that its 4 Trs in each match now whish leaves 6 spots for the other 6 classes.
Have you been playing domination lately and seen what is going on in matches because your argument is so far off I seems like you lack a reality check.
There is a reason that a class has almost 40% of the spots out of 10 in premades out of 7 classes and it starts with a O and end with a P.
Exept that its 4 Trs in each match now whish leaves 6 spots for the other 6 classes.
Have you been playing domination lately and seen what is going on in matches because your argument is so far off I seems like you lack a reality check.
There is a reason that a class has almost 40% of the spots out of 10 in premades out of 7 classes and it starts with a O and end with a P.
By such comments you are assuming that the recent mod5 has increased the TR numbers, and thus in many cases both teams have around 2 TRs....
...but sir, I've been through mod2, mod3, mod4, and mod5... and the way I remember, honestly speaking, is that the numbers were always like that. I don't seem to remember a time when there was NOT one or two TRs in a team.
Honestly speaking, sir, with the exception of mod2 days where I've regularly seen 6~7 GWFs out of 10 slots for PvP, even at their prime the numbers didn't change much for CWs, nor for HRs, nor for TRs. If you have some information of demographics that show TRs have suddenly increased in numbers, I'd be interested to see it, sir.
By such comments you are assuming that the recent mod5 has increased the TR numbers, and thus in many cases both teams have around 2 TRs....
...but sir, I've been through mod2, mod3, mod4, and mod5... and the way I remember, honestly speaking, is that the numbers were always like that. I don't seem to remember a time when there was NOT one or two TRs in a team.
Honestly speaking, sir, with the exception of mod2 days where I've regularly seen 6~7 GWFs out of 10 slots for PvP, even at their prime the numbers didn't change much for CWs, nor for HRs, nor for TRs. If you have some information of demographics that show TRs have suddenly increased in numbers, I'd be interested to see it, sir.
Well sir I been around since beta sir and been playing gf gwf hr dc and sw in that order sir.
If you sir would have played every module you sir would have indeed notice that even in its prime was there regularly 4 gwf in a match sure it happend but it was nothing common.
Now good sir 9 out of 10 dominations contains 4 tr I been in plenty with 5 also lately and the only time we saw anything even near this sir was before module 2 and the nerfing of the Tr class that was done back then.
And even so neither warlock or hr was around and only 5 classes existed back then.
And yet with 2 more classes good Sir Tr is still more dominant then any other class has been before so yes as I been pvping regularly since beta I know this for a fact.
Good sir if you have any daubts feel free to ask around from those that seen beta and to this days pvp am sure they are willing to enlighten you sir..
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icyphishMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,255Arc User
Well sir I been around since beta sir and been playing gf gwf hr dc and sw in that order sir.
If you sir would have played every module you sir would have indeed notice that even in its prime was there regularly 4 gwf in a match sure it happend but it was nothing common.
Now good sir 9 out of 10 dominations contains 4 tr I been in plenty with 5 also lately and the only time we saw anything even near this sir was before module 2 and the nerfing of the Tr class that was done back then.
And even so neither warlock or hr was around and only 5 classes existed back then.
And yet with 2 more classes good Sir Tr is still more dominant then any other class has been before so yes as I been pvping regularly since beta I know this for a fact.
Good sir if you have any daubts feel free to ask around from those that seen beta and to this days pvp am sure they are willing to enlighten you sir..
This, I have been pvping almost everyday and just about every game I run into there are at least 2 TRs, normally 3-4.
Exept that its 4 Trs in each match now whish leaves 6 spots for the other 6 classes.
Have you been playing domination lately and seen what is going on in matches because your argument is so far off I seems like you lack a reality check.
There is a reason that a class has almost 40% of the spots out of 10 in premades out of 7 classes and it starts with a O and end with a P.
I just think it is an issue of scale. The class is op but not the zomg op that many people think it is. When the panic starts in the crowd and everyone is like "omg tr godmode" whether or not it is true, a ton of people are going to start playing "godmode".
Comments
Well you have 66k health as a GF I'm assuming (don't think anyother class can get that high) so since you're so devoted in to defense then how did you kill the TR after he hit you for that hard, (assuming you're talking about a one shot TR) didn't he have Shadow Sttike to go back in to stealth?
There's no way for me to block invisible TR.
Too bad, I don't know what to look forward in this game anymore; screwed PVP, boring PvE/dailies.
PvE tiamat is a mess
i personaly take a break in this fail product so called mod 5
Devs shame on you
"you have to feel the TR",
or "just allways think one step further",
meditate before PVPing, probably you can shortcut the way between your hand and your cortex to gain some milliseconds
or just block in every direction
....this is just redicules
Just look at mod 4 and 5, no real new and meaningful content, re-used assets and what is blaring obviously a tactic to mooch more money out of the solidified players. People who are committed to this game.
FotM cycle is good for keeping a game alive that might not be getting alot of new customers, but it needs to be convincing enough for the player to actually re-roll and buy those extra bank slots.. and extra bags.. refine artifacts.. etc etc.
Call me a conspiracy theorist, but the mooching has been strong for a while now, and I feel as such a large design flaw couldn't be an accident.
Could be wrong though /shrug
Not wrong, you are spot on actually
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
O rly?
And when the TR nails you in the back while you are otherwise engaged? Because that is what most of the TRs are doing, running around the map and getting insta-kills on opponents that do not see them coming. I've been one-shotted many times or killed by multiple SoD procs while fighting someone else. As a GF that is what they do to me. Block and all that HP means diddly HAMSTER if the TR hits me in the back when I don't even know he is there. What other class can run around and kill a GF with one hit?
Broken TR is broken.
Yep. TRs get their uncontested kills while you try and get rid of the DC.
Option 2: Don't play.
I have a 16 k mi tr and a 16k wk tr, for all tough player that I had been fight, no matter what class they are, they all have one comment: use jump to dodgy attacks, all their movement are jumping, they never walk or run:rolleyes:
1. SoD issues
Its been months since mod5 release and yet they still can't get Shadow of Demise to work properly, and it's either bugged or useless. At this point I'm wondering if it would actually be more worthwhile for us TRs to have SoD switched to something else, perhaps a different buff/debuff type of effect that is not associated with direct damage. Perhaps a lingering buff that conceptualizes that the victim was hit so severely that he/she is slowed, weakened, or whatever type of combat condition that would benefit the TR in a profound manner, but not cram in more damage.
2. Lashing Blades
As for the "1-shot terror" that is LB, I feel that upgrading the strength of both the First Strike buff AND the crit severity of LB at the same time, was clearly a mistake. As a TR, I do feel that (in a very traditional sense), the 'assassin' or 'stealthy' classes SHOULD be the terror of all lightly armored classes as a whole. However, I also feel that in contrast, a class with very high defense specs and/or high HP, that is tough enough to survive a massive alpha-strike, should be a very difficult opponent for the 'assassin/stealthy' class to fight against.
The problem is the double buffs of First Strike + innate 50% crit severity, PLUS an additional double-power rating buff from Shadowborn, and THEN all combined with the double-proc SoD, usually results in a damage so severe as to provide a decisive advantage against even heavily defended opponents.
When assuming all related parties at the 19~21k GS range, 40k HP for the TR and the CW, and 55~60k range for the GF/GWF.. I feel that an adequate range of damage with a First Strike assisted LB should be around 28k against a non-TAB-shielded CW, and 15k range for the two fighter classes, with no extra SoD assisted damage incoming.
...
My opinion is that they should roll-back and remove the innate 50% crit severity buff to LB used in stealth, and then get rid of the double-power Shadow Born buff AND the SoD piercing damage proc. Instead, buff First Strike to 75% from 60%, which will force most TRs who still want quite high alpha-strike damage to use this Class Feature. What this means, is that when a TR wants to deal very high alpha-strike, he/she will need to make a choice as to replace one of his/her Class Features to First Strike.
What the Exec should be getting, IMO, is not a super-high damage as a result of a singular attack, but a much, much higher potential to deal damage than other paths as a result of sustained attacks. IMO SoD should be sort of like "Marked for Death" type of combined buff/debuff that strengthens the Exec TR's attacks against the target for a designated time.
So if the Exec is gutsy enough to risk CONTINUING his attacks after his first LB or whatever alpha-strike he chooses, then it should result in a very high damage in total. But if the Exec just chooses to LB and run, LB and run, rinse and repeat, then its effects should be much lower than it is currently seen.
...
Oh, and of course, Shocking Execution is simply an embarrassment to all decent TRs. People using that DC artifact and start swinging these broken dailies around, simply should be ashamed IMO. The "2nd use possible if killed with 1st use" part is pretty neat and interesting, but the way it deals damage should be changed.
is that a vid were u beat bis tr as cw
and tr needs a nerf ?
can u post cw one shoting gwf also
good, all halflings should just die anyway, too fugly
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
You are playing the weakest class against the second strongest class so thats gonna happen. I am sure you got your face melted by plenty of clerics who might take a second longer to kill you but who simply almost cannot be killed by anything. And you are playing the gf, the second worst class. It is going to happen.
If you were any other class you could dodge, if you were a cw you would have shield which would entirely nullify the lashing or shocking that killed you, if you were hr you probably would have had fox cunning up and simply deflected, if you were an sw you would have died because that is a weak class also.
PvP is not broken, it is not even entirely unbalanced (other than matchmaking), what it lacks is parity.
Rubbish. Yes, we are weak and by design will struggle against a TR (it is ideally suited to exploit on of our biggest weaknesses; lack of mobility) but it is utter rubbish that TRs should be one and two-shotting a tank. My 19k GF can kill anything at that GS - even 1 or 2k above that - EXCEPT for a TR and a DC. I've been one-shotted by 11 and 12k TRs with the fraction of the gear I have. And there are GFs with even more gear than myself that suffer the same fate.
Ask yourself this, of the other classes, what 11 - 12k GS toon can kill a 15k+ tank in one hit? The answer is none. 12k Sentinels pretty much do zero damage. A 12k SW will kill itself in seconds against Supremacy of Steel/Guarded Assault combo as its defence would be puny. Unless it is a Trapper, a 12k HR would be tickling you.
TR is broken. Stop trying to defend it. It operates way above its GS.
Sir, personally I am a TR that thinks the 1-shot capability of Executioners need to be fixed to a more affordable form. That being said I would like to remind you a few things that should be considered, in all fairness, lest an infuriated response towards TRs and TR players without such consideration does naught but simply breeds hatred and animosity, much less solve a problem.
The first thing to be considered would be the credibility of GS as performance standards, which I believe a lot of the players, especially those with experience, regards it 'shaky'[/i at best. It's sort of like viewing your reflection upon a 500 year old, hammer-formed copper plate. Through all those curves, ins, outs, rust and erosion, at best what you can see would be a silhouette with certain features barely noticeable. That's what I think the GS is.
Sir, some people have already mentioned in this thread that different classes increase in GS at different rates. I remember about a year ago, where the "high-end" of PvP was considered to be around 14~15k. In that environment many TRs were struggling to break past the 13.9k point to get into 14k, whilst GFs and GWFs were already at 17~18k. I know for certain that generally fighter classes are much more 'responsive' to changes in gear/items, and usually any thing that has to do with HP would easily buff a few hundred GS, whilst for TRs, getting the GS to go up higher is actually pretty difficult.
What I mean to say, sir, is that usually it is entirely possible for a TR with around 2~3k lower GS than a GWF/GF, to have actually almost identical tier of gear as those fighters. In terms of relative performance, I would guess a TR that is lower than 2~3k GS than yourself, would actually be within 5% difference in relative performance.
As an example, I remember that when my TR was at 18k, it already had 38k HP and around 5.5k power. I finally got legendary grade artifact weapon for both hands, upgraded a few r8s to r9s, and a smaller number of r9s to r10s... and then this change was enough to push me to 20k GS, a great 2k increase --- but in terms of actual performance, I probably became stronger by around 5~7% IIRC.
...
The second part I bid you to consider, sir, is that certain aspects of combat is unaffected by GS. A CW may deal quite lower damage in general when he/she is at lower GS, but his/her CC capacity remains the same. The CCs it deals on you will not be halved or quartered just because you have twice the GS than that CW. Much the same, buffs/debuffs that effect the target at a set percentage are not effected by GS... and of course, sir, stealth is also unaffected by GS, since you don't get to see through a TR's stealth just because you have higher GS.
What this means, sir, is that certain conditions of combat which has tactical value will still remain. Whether or he/she is of lower or higher GS than you, an invisible TR is invisible, and hence, the advantage stealth provides, the element of surprise, will remain constant. In this case TRs naturally benefit from this, at least this much cannot be denied.
Many players in PvP are actually typical PvE players, and it is actually entirely common to find PvE players solely geared towards power/damage, rather than survival. I've seen some extreme cases of some TRs that were at only 16k GS, but their power was at 7k ! I have a 20k GS TR, and I barely reach 6k, and this is a result of actually investing in some rad enchants for power.
Sir, I would like to emphasize that it is common to find such TRs, whom usually dabble in power levels much higher than PvP-oriented players of the same gear level. And it is only a matter of coincidence that the "1-shot path" they choose, the Executioner, is simply designed in such a way that lower GS doesn't really matter.
Sir, many TR players in PvP, are not actually full blown PvP players, and have a build/spec just as unoptimized for PvP as any other. But being PvE builds, they do have higher power than usual, and what happens is that if these players were using any other builds like Sabos or Scoundrels, they would not be able to see much success... and basically what they are, they are "suicide-bomber" type of builds by going Executioners. They're glass cannons, not really suited for survival, but if they have that opportunity, yes, Sir, they will be able to deal damage high enough to strike down a player with much higher GS.
Sir, I bid you consider the above.
Yes, I do also believe the 1-shot powers should be tamed down for the greater good, but the problem that is presented is hardly the TRs fault, nor is it their players, nor is the problem exclusive to TRs only. Stealth-type classes will always be able to hold that tactical element of surprise, and "fighting on their own terms". This is what the class is by definition, and what it is designed for.
Blaming that and pointing the finger at those attributes as something to be nerfed, Sir, is simply denying us TRs our very existence at a fundamental level, sir. No matter how much things are balanced and fixed, us TRs will always be able to hit you when you are the weakest, and when that happens you will find that you lose more to TRs than you win -- it's because us TRs will always try to attack you when we can win, and you'll probably lose.
At that point, many of you will feel that the TR is still powerful... Please remember, many many gentlemen reading this, that when that happens, it's not because we're overpowered.
It's just because that is what we are. That is our modus operandi -- we attack you when we are overwhelmingly advantageous. It is only natural that you feel weak and endangered when we attack you at these moments.
So I bid you sir, and other gentlemen reading this, please do not confuse those which are undeniably OP and needs to be addressed, and other situations where you are likely to lose to TRs. There is a clear difference, but I am sad to see more and more posts in this forum simply confuse those two, and just simply mash together all the instances where one loses, and then takes fault with the TR as being "OP".
Stop babbling. before This i was fighting with Friend from guild 23k CW- Kires, and i won many times. Maby Ice knife from CW is to big but even on GWF you can reduce its damage to funny numbers. besides it respect all kind of resistance and can be deflected.
Dont try to change the course of the conversation, we are here becouse TR with rank 5 and blue neck and belt can one shot end game characters.
PS. Maybe some feedback from Devs. You can although tell what is your point of view becouse silent is worst thing nowadays.
This. And not everyone wants to be a russian and have a server full of only TRs.
You raise a few points that have some merit.
You mention TRs in PVP using PVE builds and gear to take advantage of their power. This is the first problem. EVERY other class in PVP has to spec specifically for PVP to compete. Example, my GF. Yes, he's not the best geared GF in the world, but he is geared for PVP. 19k, full Purified, artifact offhand that gives me more regen and more guard (those two are pretty useless in most of PVE), 55K HP, 47% DR, 24% Deflec, Tenacity neck and rings. Artifacts are all survival artifacts; HP, regen, recovery with some power and arpen. Now, and this has happened, in comes a 12k TR using a PVE build and low gear and he can kill me in one or two hits, completely negating every bit of PVP-specific defence I have.
Yes, some classes scale differently, I understand that. But I am getting one and two shotted by a TR that has 7k less GS than me. Not 2k less. Not 4k less. 7k less. No other class is like this. Yes, a 12k CW can still control you, but he isn't killing you with 2 hits.
Skill, yes, I do not doubt there are some players out there that have been playing TR for a year and know everything. However, there are things about the TR that are not related to skill. 100% Stealth Crit can ensure the stupidest TR player can deliver devastating hits on an opponent that does not know he is there. Then we have that Shadow of Demise proc. That has killed me while I'm trying to get to a health pot. The TR isn't even attacking me anymore and I drop dead from 2 SoD procs that should not be happening.
And yes, TRs are designed to hunt from the shadows and hit us in our weak spots, but when I have full 55k HP, full PVP gear and one hit either kills me or nearly kills me, that is not normal, especially when it comes from baby TRs. If 18 - 22k TRs were doing this then it is fine.
So just have patience XD
Sir, I believe I've made it clear that not many TRs really advocate that kind of thing as being normal. Like every other players, the TR players are not of a singular hive-mind. Rather, many decent players have different views on the current situation, and many of them are of the same opinion that do not wish to be viewed as those who defend stuff like 30k lashing blades with a double proc of 15k SoD bug, or stuff like easy-mode insta-refill of AP with the DC artifact and then bam! a First-Strike assisted Shocking Execution that hits for 56k.
Bugs need to be fixed, over-kill 1-shot attacks due to poor design choices need to be rolled back. Not many contest this.
But rather, the TR players are more and more being forced into the corner with hatred and prejudice that does not differentiate between legitimate, constructive criticism of things that need duly be nerfed, and the brutal "nerf, kill, destroy everything I hate about TRs" sentiment.
We'd really like to form a consensus so these 'overkill stuff' can be fixed ASAP, but when some players view this as a chance to simply take away EVERYTHING from the TRs that makes us TRs, then many TRs feel so threatened as to have no choice -- we have to be defensive as a whole.
All I am asking is take it, let's take it step by step.
Let's first form a consensus on the most immediate, broken stuff like (1) double-proc SoD bugs, (2) easy-fill AP artifacts and (3) its synergy with super-deadly dailies like BB or SE, (4) and another synergy with these super-deadly dailies PLUS Executioner builds.
...and then, when people are a bit calmed down, we can discuss further fixes if necessary. Too many people are on edge, with their views on TRs muddied and bloodied by these broken stuff, sir.
...and basically everything you've stated refers back to these 1-shot Executioner builds.
Sir, I'd like to remind you that when stuff first came out, it was a group of us decent TRs who were the very first to point out to the developers that Sabo builds or Executioner builds need a fix.
If only people would stop antagonizing us TRs as a whole, and demand nerfs to every part of us as a whole. I sincerely wish people to calm down, and start talking about stuff based on actual figures, facts, and etc.. and when it comes to facts, us TRs -- many of us -- agree that 40~50k attacks that just snuff out even GFs or GWFs with 1-shot attacks... aren't right.
Mr rock, meet mr paper. You have described rock paper scissors class balance in this game, perfectly.
TR does not need to be burned to the ground as a class, GF needs to be made stronger. I can hit a cw with what normally would result in a 40k+ crit, and because of shield, the attack does no damage and I get cc'd into oblivion (paper meet scissors). That should be the issue, that the tankiest class in the game is so easily wiped out by the same exact attack that one of the squishiest classes in the game simply shrugs off.
Exept that its 4 Trs in each match now whish leaves 6 spots for the other 6 classes.
Have you been playing domination lately and seen what is going on in matches because your argument is so far off I seems like you lack a reality check.
There is a reason that a class has almost 40% of the spots out of 10 in premades out of 7 classes and it starts with a O and end with a P.
Oversleep
Outgroup
Outscoop
Outsleep
Outstrip
Outsweep
Outtrump
Overcrop
Overheap
Overleap
Overpump
Overslip
Overstep
?
By such comments you are assuming that the recent mod5 has increased the TR numbers, and thus in many cases both teams have around 2 TRs....
...but sir, I've been through mod2, mod3, mod4, and mod5... and the way I remember, honestly speaking, is that the numbers were always like that. I don't seem to remember a time when there was NOT one or two TRs in a team.
Honestly speaking, sir, with the exception of mod2 days where I've regularly seen 6~7 GWFs out of 10 slots for PvP, even at their prime the numbers didn't change much for CWs, nor for HRs, nor for TRs. If you have some information of demographics that show TRs have suddenly increased in numbers, I'd be interested to see it, sir.
Well sir I been around since beta sir and been playing gf gwf hr dc and sw in that order sir.
If you sir would have played every module you sir would have indeed notice that even in its prime was there regularly 4 gwf in a match sure it happend but it was nothing common.
Now good sir 9 out of 10 dominations contains 4 tr I been in plenty with 5 also lately and the only time we saw anything even near this sir was before module 2 and the nerfing of the Tr class that was done back then.
And even so neither warlock or hr was around and only 5 classes existed back then.
And yet with 2 more classes good Sir Tr is still more dominant then any other class has been before so yes as I been pvping regularly since beta I know this for a fact.
Good sir if you have any daubts feel free to ask around from those that seen beta and to this days pvp am sure they are willing to enlighten you sir..
This, I have been pvping almost everyday and just about every game I run into there are at least 2 TRs, normally 3-4.
Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
I just think it is an issue of scale. The class is op but not the zomg op that many people think it is. When the panic starts in the crowd and everyone is like "omg tr godmode" whether or not it is true, a ton of people are going to start playing "godmode".
overpoop
/10char