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MI vs WK PvP wise
iarus87
Member Posts: 62
As topic said, i fear this is another (hope not that much) boring thread on MI vs WK. I came back to game from a 10 month stop and i had an INT, GC based build with a lot of powers basically screwed (such as 1/3 Dazing Strike...still wondering how i ended up doing this), so i want a respec. I now see that WK seems to be viable but haven't really understood if a WK Saboteur (or Exe or Sco, i think Sab could be better but, you know, i'm quite newbie) could be as viable as an MI Exec ("one shot" build) or an MI Sab (perma or semiperma stealth). What's your opinion?
Post edited by iarus87 on
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I'll give it my point of view for all the 3 feat trees (Saboteur,Scoundrel, Exeuctionner)
Starting with Saboteur.
MI is hands down more threatening.
Disheartening Stirke was boosted THEN ninja-nerfed by the developpers, CW's Shield renders Disheartening Strike completely harmless. Whereas Gloaming Cut can hurt.. if you're dazed at least
Also, with the two second stealth reveal, WhisperKnives are screwed big time. If I catch the WhisperKnife a split second, he's dead, period. Even if he slots Vengeance's Pursuit (Which does NOT work against Icy Rays).
MI on the other hand, has plenty of room for error, I catch him? No problem, ITC, which renders the two second reveal somewhat useless. I find the MI to be more threatening because he forces me to teleport around, whereas against the WK, I have complete control of the fight.
Moving on to Scoundrel:
God dam scoundrel, both of the paragons are annoying for Scoundrel, but WhisperKnife has the edge here, due to Hateful Knives and Vengeace's Pursuit as excellent gap closers, ITC is not really needed here because the Scoundrel's deflects renders attacks as child-level. I find the RANGED Scoundrel (WK) to be much more effective on me than it's Melee counterpart, the MI. MI Scoundrels generally use Duelist's Flurry, it's a good at-will, but they almost always kill themselves because I slot Storm Fury. (Most Scoundrel's do not use Vorpal and go for Plague Fire.)
Moving on to Executionner
MI or WK, this feat tree simply doesn't beat a competent CW. Lashing Blade and Shocking Execution don't do <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> against Shield, basically, he hits Lashing blade... then dies. But if the Executionner is smart enough and is not a 1-shot wonder, then this feat tree can be challenging, but only the Master Infiltrator can pull this off, because of ITC... again.
Verdict:
Saboteur: Master Infiltrator
Scoundrel: WhisperKnife
Executionner: Both but MI has a slight edge.
One of the many Control Wizards that misses Shard Of The Endless Avalanche. RIP Shard (Beta-Mod3)
I think the dazy from the feat need to be change, but not for the encounter dazy
Since mod 5 i changed to Whisperknife Saboteur and in my opinnion is the best pvp combination of the entire game.
Why?
1) Saboteur gives you extra piercing and damage from stealth. Slot first strike for a huge damage increase + sab feats + crit from stealth...anyway a LOT of damage that once you do you dont have to worry about it for 15 seconds
2) One with the Shadows. Stealth, CoS, CoS, CoS, Cos... ANY encounter, stealth, CoS, CoS, CoS, CoS, Shadow Strike, (a lot of CoS), any encounter, stealth again.... a NEVER-ENDING full crit + piercing damage... you can take anyone down with it, makes bursty TRs lame kids...
3) CW shields? throw 2 knives to pop them down then execute ure combo from range, with this build CWs, GWFs, HRs and TRs are easy bait for you!
4) We dont have ITC, but we have other measures to avoid the 2 sec reveal. First, only the first hit of Smoke Bomb and DS makes you reveal, so you can DS, Dodge, Throw 2 CoS and do a dodge, this way you can attack and dodge forever. If you feel threatened, throw a smoke bomb to REFILL ure stealth and DAZE them. No worries, just keep throwing knives
5) a Powerfull One shot TR MI???? Easy bait, run near him and dodge, most of them will use LB and lost it. As a sab you have better stealth, throw a DS and watch him die. If he's a Sab MI you'll have a harder time, but still... range > melee, anyday.
This comming for an average PvP 16k TR. The only 2 targets that REALLY takes time to kill are GFs and DCs, but if ure wasting ure time killing them ure wrong anyway. So far i can kill even 25k GS ppl with this build and some patience, unlike a 1-shot TR with a low gear that will get eaten alive by a CW for example.
Give this build a try on Preview, you wont regret. Thankfully manny of ppl here will mock this build, fun to see ppl still play 1-shot TRs these days xD
Suddenly a question come out of my head: for the most player complaint tr op, are they complaining skilled player or player with no skill?
Sir, the pvp scene is currently total chaos when it comes to "pointing fingers" since many of those that do point and blame, usually do not have the adequate knowledge or experience to recognize just which problem is coming from whom.
What's making things worse, is the problems which us TRs ourselves have pointed out, that were never fixed, mixed in with very old problems which players have pointed out, and of course, still not fixed, again mixed with some bad design choices or mistakes made from the developers.... which all mixed up into one, giant furball that is the TR.
The tragedy, sir, is that most people cannot tell the difference between the 3 TR builds in the field, so they usually choose to mix them all up into this false image of a 'invincible TR' that is perma-stealth, deals insane piercing damage, dazes people whenever they want upto 10~12 seconds straight, throws around 40k Lashing Blades, and can double-tap people with 50k shocking execution.
It's a powerful effigy so easy to burn and lynch, and the perfect scarecrow to pin every frustration one might face in PvP, sir.
With all honesty, I'd say its pretty relative. Obviously the 'revelation' does not effect Whisperknives much when the opponents are GF or GWF, or another MI TR for that matter in that being typically ranged, the option to kite targets still persist -- whereas things would be in reverse for MI TRs that need to close in. Obviously being revealed nearby a GF or a GWF would suck for them more than it sucks for the WK.
More accurately, the 2s revelation makes things difficult for non-Scoundrel Whisperknives, specifically when facing ranged enemies like HRs or CWs, DPS DCs, sir.
I honestly have not felt such a difference.
It'd be best if you can time your re-stealth and compare it after you respec to a MI, sir.
this is because of Shadow of Demize in the executioner capstone, when it procs it stops stealth depletion when hit and increases stealth regen by 20%, so if u switch to sab u trade tenacious concealment + stealth regen for 20% faster for an instant stealth refill with encounter use when the capstone is up, better for perma stealthing.
***slot SS or BnS if u need more stealth.
Good observation, sir. I was thinking of normal stealth regen in this instance and did not think of that one.
It is true. A MI-executioner with its capstone feat will regen stealth faster than usual, and attacks do not halt its regeneration. So when you mix in Tenacious Concealment as a class feature, plus the artifact offhand power that provides extra stealth protection with Tenacious Concealment, your stealth will just start regenerating and will not stop, or deplete, even if you are attacked.
So currently the MI-executioner doesn't need to use Shadow Strike at all.
not necessarily, 20% stealth regen is good but not great, unless u r fine with being out of stealth alot. u shud still slot some sort of stealth refill cuz after u 1 shot u dont wanna get bursted down by the opposing team when out of stealth, u can ITC but afterwards u will need to go back into the fight and try to one shot some more peeps and u can either dodge roll to stealth regen + extra regen from SoD or SS. so u need a stealth refill of some kind for a one shot TR imo.