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Lets not ruin warlock by giving it CC.
themgaic421
Member Posts: 15 Arc User
I see people saying they want more CC on SW, I completely disagree the only buff it needs is harrowstorm to be quicker and a slightly longer prone time, we don't need CC, I've never had a problem killing someone without CC, once they go up in the air with harrow + killing flames, as a fury soo much of their health is gone, if not all if I had already used my fiery bolt, from my point of view the issues I saw on my SW were the damage still taken when in sprint mode, and the cast time of harrow storm, if your struggling with the class and think CC is an issue, clearly your doing something wrong, unless it's a CW or TR, CC doesn't become an issue, honestly simply increasing the damage resistance from sprint by a large amount will help alot against CWs/TRs/HRs massively..
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What I think would help is if some abilities that have curse synergy, refund back some stamina.
In first moment I read threads name my thought where.. ROGUE come here and post to do not change anything and keeping easy marks as they are now...
With rogue took down 2 SW like they where nothing and moved for some real fight..
If you witness one or 2 warlocks kill some enemy in TG than you are lucky.. I usually get ~10 kills 15 death. And I am extreme lucky. While when usually warlocks get 2 kills 33 death. They get outside, hit, hit die. repeat. and after third time they get first kill.
If enemy team have 2 rogues.. Well then warlock will have 40 death 2 kills(if he will be lucky) and probably just 20 assist.
If that team have CW then SW will definatlly quit match.. i Know that . because thats normal stuff and some teams start comply in the start of fights, that you joined and took spot of normal class.
in tiamat raid also I have seen only 3 other warlocks and non of them ussed wraith of shadow.. WHich is really cool for 1 second.. warlock nice for normal, non epic dungeons to play as dps class. But nothing more.
killing flames is one target skill. With boon can make aoe but yet too weak compared to fiery bolt. DT best skill. and warlock bargain skill build for boss fight only...
In think developers rushed to release this class and didn't finish it. Class features are total HAMSTER.
Get 4% resist from target who are curssed.. Thats mean 3 enemy make 4% less damage... Yea like it would be something..
Flame of empowerment 8% power boost if you have full AP.. so i sacrifice dailly skills for 8% extra power.. yea right....
no mercy only 1 really good Class feature..
Compared to CW stromspell. cast strom pillar and icy terrain and mass monster wave melt in seconds. Even better than warlocks DT skill. And in same time with CW i can drink tea.
I suggest that class features give some changes to cause CC/debuff effect with some chances.. If CW gain dps via class feature,, why warlock can't get CC via class feature..?
also skills cool time should be shorter and some skills cast faster.. Also some skills are total HAMSTER..
So in one and other ways.. warlock need rebuild. Also skill powers should be balanced by lv.
Warlock in early game get one of top skill murder flame. which in low lv pvp is OP.
in medium lv pvp warlock already unlock all major skills so other players are outmatched.
in end game warlock can't bring on table anything special. Excludig gate of hell which also is in some ways HAMSTER.
warlock class is good class but yet skills need remodeling. And curse system also should be revise...
Now less and less time you can see warlock. Personaly from pvp and pve side I have seen only 10 times other warlocks..
From last all weak I have see 3 times in dominion.
and last 7 times in pve. Thats include tiamat raid. Even during dungeons its extreme rare to get 2 warlocks in party...
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
==================================================
Gloom level 60 Control Wizard
Dusk level 60 Trickster Rogue
Dawn level 60 Devoted Cleric
Eclipse level 60 Hunter Ranger
Wrath level 60 Great Weapon Fighter
Jinx level 60 Scourge Warlock
Maybe faster Harrowstorm
WTB Class Reroll please
yea sure let keep them as they are now.. And I with my even ccrap geared ROGUE anihilate all wave of SW without big problems.. When I fight in dominion and face 2 or 3 enemies.. And if there is one of SW I ignore it.. its not even threat to me. What he can do a? Curse>harrowstorm. Please.. Hide trick and curse canceled, skill ressited.. Murder flame. yea sure.. some jumps and its resisted.. DT.. tsk. Hide and u ignore it..
What else SW could possible do to ROGUE.. lets think... .. . .. . .... . . ..... ... .. ....... . .. . Nop.. Nothing. Can he escape me.?? ,............ . ................ Nop.
So yea.. When I play as Rogues I love SW, best easy marks for game.
But when you play with warlock is kinda different.. What warlock posible do.
Vs GWF,.. not so mutch, try curse>harrowstorm. But till he finish casting, warlock already lay dead on ground..
VS CW.. same situation u try cast any cruse, skill, at will, and u get lifted in air and u hope that you HP pool and def ammount is high enough to survive CW skill barage.. And even if u do survive. u get lifted in air again and u dead..
VS Rogue.. tsk. unless rogue is total newbie, total HAMSTER geared and not even looking in your side.. Then sure u can posible took his head.. Otherwise he go hide. 1 hit and u lay dead.
VS Cleric.. Dps + inmortal healing.. hm... U just keep bombarding and hoping than in this century you kill him..
Vs GF.. He rise shield thats mean u can't dps/control him.. He charge in you and knock you down. You can try avoid but yeat Shadow step have no dodge effect. And you get knocked even u using Shadow step..
vs warlock.. XD who cast skill>curse>at will first = winer.
Also wraith of shadow immobilize,, it work on about 10% of players.They ignore it. And even it works, its effect is 1 second. So actually nothing...
Sorry for sarcasm. But if u need easy mark. why don't ask developers add monsters in dominion for extra points instead making fun of warlock...
CW are CW.
They don't have big dps skills. But class feature give them epic dps boost.. For CW enough to cast Strom pillar + icy terrain or spam at will to Trigger Strom spell effect and lightings keep dps in that area...
warlocks lost position as range dps spellcaster. neither dps class neither controll. its total trashed one..
Personally I have been kick out of party enough time because I played with warlock. Even i had more kGS. More time clear dungeons and hell I took down Dread pool dungeon boss solo. And yet I where kicked.. Peoples prefer CW for control + its dps.
I don't say that SW must become like CW. But some minor changes can be done, and it will not make SW op. Enough to revise class feature set. And revise skill sets and its tears. No need dramatic changes..
But if SW keep as it now, developers will have to add title as reward if u met warlock in game..
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
==================================================
can i just say, I got a bit of a headache from reading this.
You seem to think that all SW's are the same, Im willign to make a bet you have not come across any of the Legit PvP SW's in a Domination. The only TR's I have a problem with are WhisperKnife Scoundrel stun lock builds.
If you are still being stun locked to death by CW's then that means you need more Tenacity and Strategy, even when thw CW's were Freeze locking not too long ago, they couldnt 1 rotation kill me... but I could 1 rotation kill them.
If you are being being Killed by GWF's then you are lacking the defenses necessary to skirmish witht hem 1 on 1, its not easy, but its far from impossible.
If you are in a match with a troublesome DC, then you NEED to hit him from above, with Bargain/Rebuke/Dreadtheft. he will die if you pay attention and use Brood of Hadar if necessary. this has worked against 20+k Premades even while Knights Valor was Activated.
If you are Dieing from GF's then im sorry, but you are playing the class 100% incorrectly to begin with.
And hey, other warlocks are other warlocks.. unfortunately I would be willing to bet that there are not that many SW's in PvP that are actually trying.
Look man, I might not be able to kill every player int he game, seriously, Im a Free 2 Play who probably wont be reaching 20k GS any time soon. Lets not fool ourselves, it will be difficult fight for me to kill 25k's who are equal intelligence
PLease dont take this the wrong way, you may be an amazing player in PvP on your other toons, but it just doesn't seem to me that you have the same killer instinct that a few of us Tanky Hybrids have built up.
I mean, if you complain you don't have enough defenses, why the hell are you standing at the center cap point?? You need to have battle initiative, get the drop on the enemy, and you will come out on top. And if what you doing is not working, don't continuously flaunt the definition of insanity, use your head and come up with a new plan.
And I am not saying like every single CW I've seen is capable of doing those numbers but recently seen some PvP CWs pulling those numbers on me despite they were tank PvP spec'd. (had 600 tenacity and 3k defense myself). I heard that's due to some broken mechanice being abused in both PvP and PvE though.
CCing everything as good as burning everything in a blink is too John Wayne for me.
WTB Class Reroll please
mod 4 was challenging, mod 5 is more challenging and somtimes frustrating, but not exclusively due to the fact, that the classes are imbalanced.
Warlock is not pure fun, but u can compete, if playing tanky enough, for the moment 40k health, full BIS, 1400 tenacity, and so on
any other setup would be too squishy imo, i read about player who play more glasscanon builds, but these ppl can´t tell me its a good felling being 20 time onehittet in one domination
the damage is ok i can kill most equally geared class, and i got used to be target number one
who else should be taken? TR invisible, DC .. last too long, so normally playing with 2TR´s +/- one DC, there are not much targets left
Problem is, as for every other class , permastealth oneshot, and permadace rogue
As animalust wrote BoVA + curse is some kind of counter against this class, but it ends beeing stunned, just tested it, and works quite ok, TR´s really don´t like it
i do think dogding would be nice, but otherwise i think especially if u look at the TR , beeing immune to most effects - by dodging countless times, makes PVP very unbalanced
DC same thing, but not as anoying as a class that just stole u 95% health and u even can´t scratch him or see him-
if I would get doging ability by shifting Warlock would get more deadly
In dominion or GG fights usually warlock spawn. get down. got beaten and thats it.
I have been in party with 2 other builds, not only furry. And also killed them too.
And you know. Temptation said to be strong. Ghem. he jumped down. And got killed in middle of air. And he hit ground with 0 HP. same where with damination.
You try hit rogue, he simple start jump like monkey and same time spam at wills. And his jumps get out of your skill range. you curse him. he move hide.. And trust me. if you face normal geared TR and player are not total newbie. Than u will have 3 kills and 20 death ratio, in best case scenario.
Usually CW start with Entangling force(lift you in air). Never see any other warlock or CW resist it... Neither now, neither before warlocks expansion.
Kinda funny, my gear focused on def. then crit and power.. In dungeons I try keep monsters eye on me. More less act as tank. And its rare case that I would be killed there.. In epic dungeon still I jump in group of monsters and yet survive without big problems..
In dominion my def simply become like paper..
From above, in front of him, from back. U think I simply stand in front of him and thats it? Also u think I am only one have trouble with immortal DC??
Also best dps for now is Killing flames. Harrowstorm for CC, And wraith of shadow. it's sometime work on some newbies.
And warlocks bargain.. Ghem its same as you kill yourself.. Even it works. In best case scenario u just drain HP just same amount as u pay for casting skill.
Well if u cast crit then sure u live. DT is good. But It last too long and if he dodge it once then all cast time u can see on screen message DODGE/RESIST.
Brood of Hadar. Its only 1 daily skill made good for pvp.
Well well. Interesting how you can play wrong with warlock? :P
You try dodge incoming hit. And yet u get knocked down.. or I should stand and beg for luck that he miss???
In some times, I manage to avoid that annoying skill. But its encounter so cool time is kinda short.
Actually I find that I prefer dance with GWF instead with GF.
Yes u are right. Not so many warlock around. And u know why? Because it total HAMSTER in pvp. Do u think peoples would leave them because they would have more less chance in pvp fights.. no they will fight back. Now, only top end gear sets i mean if u have high kGS u can fight against low/mid kGs players. But if u face normal, not even 17 kGS players. Enough for 12 kGs player with any other class and u doomed.
And also currently I found some funny thing. I start get kicked from dungeon party, not because of my gear, not for stats, but because I played with warlock. Since now CW can pull bigger dps than warlock. so players usually ask me leave, or kick.
After warlock expansion sure it where Op, latter bug fixed and power/skills fixed. Than where normal..
For me where Ok. warlock range dps spellcaster, he lack CC. for was fine. But come one.. Now its lack both. dps and hell can't CC.
same here.. I didn't pay for game. Why lost part of game and get stuffs by real money??. Not my style.
I don't talk about fight like 12 kGS warlock vs 17~ kGs players.. I mean even 9 kGS players easly kill 13 kGS warlock.
Killer instinct.? Tell me if u have this instinct does it give you resist from rogues 1 hit u dead? Does it give resist from CW control??. I think nop, I also sure he don't give u abilty to drag out rogue from hiding..
One thing by time u lear, that when u fight against rogues its better stay in center and keep wide area for dodge. Some noobies probably miss some skills and u get chance to escape and hit back. If u stay in close area. Well u die even faster, and then even total newbie rogue take you down.
I avoid center when in fight against CW and rangers. Before tiamat, i could fight back aganst any class. THey killed me, I kileld them. But after tiamat all gone..
Even in days of glyphs when u could get damage from nowhere I lived longer and I could make sure that warlock is not easy mark.
Best regards Warlock.
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
==================================================
Ice knife is daily. ice ray. hmm.. thats odd. I played with CW before tiamat and it didn't hit so hard.. probably bugged mechanics with ice/chill skills.. But yes one skills who is strong is Ice knife. for one target high dps.
Actually I wonder what is max dmg u can pull out from CW with ice knife...
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
==================================================
absolutely right, little changes would be enough, no ups and downs, first OP then nerved again
i also think its more or less the broken classes, who are major problem
when this is fixed it would be much better
I think in same ways.. Some changes, not dramatic ones. But in one and other ways warlock need some changes..
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
==================================================
I know that myself, and a few others that I know who plahy similarly, are not having the issues you have mentioned.
We are doing just fine, even in the hardest matches im never higher deaths than kills.
See , i can only assume youa re experiencing User Error, if I and my Friends are not complaining about SW PVP
I've played both paragon paths at around 14k GS. My GS isn't that high but this is my alt so who cares.
The problem with Hellbinder is the potential damage output. The problem with Soulbinder is the Soul Spark mechanic. The problem with the class overall is that more than half of the Encounters are useless. Curse Bite, Vampiric Embrace (sorta), and Spheres are totally useless. Half of the Class Features for Soulbinder are useless as well.
If we're not giving SW any CC, which is totally understandable, it'd be nice to have the raw damage to compete as well as some options in Encounters. Even my TR switches out Encounters for PvP and PvE.
On the topic of PvP...
I main a TR and I've seen some legit SWs who take a beating and still keep going. The problem is usually the damage. Sure, they're tanked harder than a CW but they're not putting out the raw damage of a CW. Dreadtheft is great but there's dozens of ways to inerrupt it. Killing Flames is a finisher and Harrowstorm has long CD. SW doesn't have a lot of alpha to compete with.
GF, GWF, TR, CW, all of them have a rotation to wreck your ****. If it doesn't have alpha then it's a CC rotation to keep you pinned long enough. SW lacks both of these and that's part of the problem.
Go Cryptic!
PS - I quit.
We just are not as "gimpy" as people are complaining about ^^