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The tanky rogue
stickthatsme2
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
I play a lot of pvp as a tanky fury soulbinder with tenebrous (yes I know its a sick joke to play a PVP SW). What I'm noticing now is that most of the overpowered damage/sneak tr has been nerfed there is an emergence of tanky rogues. I am fine with TR doing great burst damage, as a 50k tanky SW I can normally tank a few hits, but they can almost always get the best of me if played correctly. However, with the emergence of the new tanky TR's I'm finding that they are practically impossible to kill while doing great damage. This all revolves around the fact that rogues have a 75% deflection severity. I can not fundamentally understand why TR have such a high deflection severity, while no other class get this ability. I think this should be reduced to 50% like every other class.
Why is this a problem? No other class gets the ability to deflect such a high amount of damage. Combine this with a decent life steal and it becomes quite a problem. Neverwinter has always said if you can get a hold of a rogue you should be able to kill them. The problem with this statement is that we cant kill a rogue when they have a 50% chance to deflect 75% of any damage. I'm finding tanky 17k GS rogues taking 3 people to kill on nodes 1 or 3 in domination and then the rogues still get a kill or two. To put things in perspective, I am a 15.8k GS SW in pvp. This is mainly because greater tenebrous don't really give much GS score.
Solution: Well I personally think the best solution is to reduce their deflection severity. I feel like this feature can easily be abused with high deflection chance feats and gems.
An alternate solution: Perhaps you may be able to reduce their DR% percentage. I personally don't like this idea because I'm under the impression they can only get about a 40% max DR. which is comparable to what other non-tanky classes can get (SW, CW, and to a minor degree HR). But I'm just attempting to offer more then one solution.
Any feedback on this would be appreciated, for or against TR deflection severity.
Why is this a problem? No other class gets the ability to deflect such a high amount of damage. Combine this with a decent life steal and it becomes quite a problem. Neverwinter has always said if you can get a hold of a rogue you should be able to kill them. The problem with this statement is that we cant kill a rogue when they have a 50% chance to deflect 75% of any damage. I'm finding tanky 17k GS rogues taking 3 people to kill on nodes 1 or 3 in domination and then the rogues still get a kill or two. To put things in perspective, I am a 15.8k GS SW in pvp. This is mainly because greater tenebrous don't really give much GS score.
Solution: Well I personally think the best solution is to reduce their deflection severity. I feel like this feature can easily be abused with high deflection chance feats and gems.
An alternate solution: Perhaps you may be able to reduce their DR% percentage. I personally don't like this idea because I'm under the impression they can only get about a 40% max DR. which is comparable to what other non-tanky classes can get (SW, CW, and to a minor degree HR). But I'm just attempting to offer more then one solution.
Any feedback on this would be appreciated, for or against TR deflection severity.
Post edited by stickthatsme2 on
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Everyone is always trying to change the world bro...
Every thread has players from other classes entering their class forums.
Once inside you people start spitting venom in our faces about why you feel our class is better than this or that.
More and more people pass by and say, "Yes I hate this class also. Maybe I too can agree and make this class get a nerf"
We don't have anything constructive to add to your post.
You never should have posted that in our den.
End of story.
This is the same as you are the atheist walking into catholic mass saying, "omg there is no god"
You made all the heads turn and frown bro...
I think there is no more feedback becouse there was a lot of pages and threads to nerf tr, and actually everyone know that the TR is OP except TRs of course
50% deflection + 75% deflection severity + 40+k hp + 4 dodges+ ITC+ ofcourse stealth + a lot of daze and the fastest movement from all classes + piercing damage + massive single target DPS like 10-15k from single Gloaming Cut. Most broken class in history of NW in my opinion d(^.^)b. Waiting for Nerf.
Asha-DC(Faithful-Anointed Champion)
Vilgefortz-CW(Thaumaturge-balance)
Adapt to it, or whine. But to discuss a topic which is pretty obvious and will not change anything is stupid.
I'll bite and play devil's advocate here. The problem with TR deflection severity and indeed deflection in general is that there is no counter to it. Nothing penetrates deflection, not even control durations. I'm sorry my fellow TR's but dood has a legitimate point. There is no way around it.
Gloom level 60 Control Wizard
Dusk level 60 Trickster Rogue
Dawn level 60 Devoted Cleric
Eclipse level 60 Hunter Ranger
Wrath level 60 Great Weapon Fighter
Jinx level 60 Scourge Warlock
Then all the other classes have the same problem too because they use the same mechanic only with another stat value. To play PvP while you can't see how stats activate or effects activate is still pure bull**** and that is one part of the big problem with PvP in Neverwinter.
It is strictly build for PvE and the skills we are using are made for PvE not for PvP. I can't remember a game that was strictly build for PvP that has something like deflect. An stat that is invisible for you that takes away half of your damage you are dealing and you have zero chance to know when it will activate.
All discussions of PvP in Neverwinter are pure bull****, because PvP in Neverwinter is pure bull****. And this is the reason it is unworthy of a discussion. You need no skill on your class. High Gearscore and the current OP classes is all you need for PvP in Neverwinter. There are no "meta classes" or "jobs" to do in PvP for different purposes on the map. You CRUSH your enemy with the highest amount of battle power you can get and that was it! No tactic, no cleverness, nothing!
PvP in Neverwinter is dead horse that you are trying to ride. It is ugly, it smells like hell and it is moving nowhere.
So Mod2 GWF or Deflection Tank was ok and you too "Adapt to it, or whine"?
The stupidest thing I've ever heard. Go out and never come back
I remember defending TR in Mod 2 and no one said anything like this.
They didn't say anything like that in Mod 3 either.
Mod 4 came and no one said anything.
Mod 5 comes, TR gets a huge boost, and suddenly everyone's a hypocrite defender of an OP class.
Funny how TR only got in such a bad place before because everyone whined hard enough for the devs to nerf it into uselessness. Now TR actually serves a purpose and everyone's flipping their ****.
Get out. Now.
Go Cryptic!
PS - I quit.
It is called Prone...
Once prone deflection = 0
End of story...
Work with your team and see just how easy a tr in prone dies.
No way around it my booty!
Just because you failed to find a way, does not mean a way does not exist!
I will explain it easy for you.
Many people are crying which means the Dev's will change it anyway. So to discuss such kind of topic of game mechanic is interesting if you want to discuss the design aspect, but to discuss only to provoke a change of the system is ******ed, since no one answer our questions directly.
So yes: Adapt to the change and sucess or fail on trying it and whine and the Devs will change it anyway.
50% deflection, 50% deflection severity, ton of LS and regen, easy-peasey-freebie DoTs that do all the attacking and lifestealing for you while you keep running awauy, 40k+ HP, 5 dodges, selfheal, gap closer/widener, stealth, one of game's fastest dazes, and FASTEST average movement speed of all classes.
HRs. Still waiting for nerf. Not happenin'
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
So you're built to withstand the stealth-type TRs -- which is actually commendable.
We only wish more of the pishnit whiners took on your example and actually build theirs to withstand their perceived, highest "threat". So many idiots think one build does everything, but that is rarely true, even for TRs (...well, except for Saboteuers). But then, you had to go ruin it by complaining about combat TRs now. Heh.
Because fundamentally, the TR does not have any other means of systematic defense.
Defense in these type of games are usually made up of three seperate, yet interlocked elements.
■ straight-up damage resistance, always applicable and reliable
■ evade/dodge/parry/deflect/what-ever-game-calls-it chance-based mechanics, powerful but unreliable
■ special gimmicks, based on class characteristics, block, Unstoppable, stealth, etc etc..
The fighter classes have an average of over 50~60% damage reduction, and they STILL can reach 70~80% of the deflection stats a HR or TR can wield. It is not uncommon to see a tank-build GWF or GF having anywhere between 20~40% deflection.CW/SWs have weak defensive stats but rely a lot of self-buffs. DCs are a triple combination of TANKY and BUFFY and HEALY.
HRs are conceptually the most similar to TRs in that they are also light-armoured, but they have an assortment of self-buffs to choose from, as well as repetitive self-heals and naturally higher life-steals.
TRs, have nothing. They average in around 25~30% DR, have no self heals, no self buffs that aid with self-protection. Thus, deflection is our only defensive mechanic.
TR lifesteal is not high enough to sustain oneself while out of stealth. TRs are TRs, not HRs.
HRs can self-sustain despite damage due to a number of factors which include, Pathfinder mechanics, deflect, lifesteal, regen, Wilds Medicine, AND their own stealth. They basically survive in the format I've once compared to the WoW Warlocks circa the days of Burning Crusade expansion.
Their LS factor comes to life with a huge number of repeating DoTs applied via Pathfinder mechanics, which provide a small but endless stream of healing. These mechanics enable them to concentrate on evasion and self-defense, while the DoTs provide heals and attacks simulateneously. Every 10 seconds a repetition of Disruptive Arrow and following combos knock a huge chunk of the enemy HP, while at the same time replenishes your own, and every attack the enemy attempts on you that is deflected, will provide stacking self-heals. In moments of great danger, they enter stealth, regen a hefty chunk of HP, engage heal-type artifacts if they have one.
Lifesteal alone does not make TRs HRs, nor is TR lifesteal that high in the first place.
The mistake you are making, is that TRs are tanky only when it matters. The better the TR player is, the better he will try match his 'tanky' time with moments of greatest danger. TRs can't be tanky all the time. 50% deflection is HARDLY enough to save ANY TR from death. If you don't believe me, get a TR friend (if you have one) and see how long he lasts when he justs runs around with all that deflection while 2~3 of you are attacking. Heck, get even a HR with more efficient/powerful deflect/self-sustenance mechanics and have HIM run around doing nothing while you guys attacks and see how long HE lasts.
It's not deflect. It's how the TRs use their powers in moments of defense, and I'm sorry to say most people don't really have a clue on how that works. They just fire off powers or try things instinctively, without putting much thought into it.
Not when other classes with even more defensive means can reach similar deflection rates. HR reaches 40's easily, and fighters with high DR can also reach 30~40 without sacrificing too much of their vital stats. On the contrary, deflect for TRs is actually very difficult to maintain without significant sacrifices. In order to reach 45% deflect I had to sacrifice 2k HP, so now I stand at 38k HP and 45%. Go any higher and for every 1% increase something like 800HP falls off each time. MIs have it a bit easier, but WKs are hard pressed already.
Maybe when all other classes, except HRs, have their deflect rate dropped considerably.
But currently, when PvP generally displays too much damage all around, I don't think dropping down defenses is going to help with any of them.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Dont bite plz, and dont post if you dont know something, its called piercing damage and it goes around everything
if you dont know what i m talking about, I surely wont explain it to you, Google it
Also remember that PWE/Cryptic have limits to what they can change in this game due to the D&D licensing. They can't just reduce deflection as they please. And the current deflection % for the TR makes sense from a D&D perspective.
Learn to accept it - and focus on other complaints (as PvPers seem to always have an unending amount of complaints
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
Indeed - a +10 for that shot of reality/truth!
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."