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Forums > Home› Class Forums› The Library

Master of Flame: Thaumaturge or Renegade?

pointsmanpointsman Member Posts: 2,327 Arc User
edited January 2015 in The Library
Since the Winter Festival is issuing retraining tokens like candy, I have been giving second thoughts about respeccing my CW from MoF Thaum to MoF Renegade.

Is this a viable choice? It seems that with the fix to Chilling Advantage, that to go Renegade more or less necessitates slotting Chilling Presence. But would it be better than either Critical Conflagration or Swath of Destruction? That seems like a hard sell to me.

Any thoughts?

(This is for PVE only)
Post edited by pointsman on

Comments

  • aulduronaulduron Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,351 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Don't know about MoF, but for SS, you don't have to have CA and CP, but it helps. My damage seems to have gone way up after respeccing into CA, finally raising my charisma, then trading my GPF for a GVorp. I haven't yet run with any equally geared thaums to compare though
  • angrymanagementangrymanagement Member Posts: 487 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Chilling Advantage has been fixed, and Renegade is the top dps build for CW now....but in SS form.
    SS is just too OP to pass up.
  • valiadgrvaliadgr Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 28 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Been a MoF/rene for a while now and tbh it depends on what kind of content you run and how you run it. Critical Conflagration can't leave your slots , its just too good , made even better by the 5% crit chance it gives via the off hand artifact power(if it works correctly ofc since it says cold and arcane spells critical chance so it doesn't appear on the stats sheet directly).
    Slotting CP with CA fixed instead of Swath seems to have increased my personal dps, not to mention how good it synergizes with smolder applications from crit conflag due to the increased crit chance in total.Also I run a p. vorp. so getting crit from anywhere I can while staying around the soft caps seems the way to go.
    In the end of the day though it all boils down to what is the true purpose of a MoF/rene. And that imo is the insane buffing/debuffing you do. With that in regard why slot CP since the 15% debuff from Swath is just insane especially for the zerg fest Tiamat is atm.To quote chem , you literally turn pugs into heroes since Chaos Magic applies not only to your party but to all friendlies in proximity. Add Swath and a gpf or terror enchant and watch Tiamat melt.For personal dps/pleasure though SS/Rene would be the way to go.
    On a sidenote without frozen power transfer from thaum , what arti main hand would be the best? I suppose even for rene , chilling cloud is too good a skill to not use on any situation apart from sinlge target fights where magic missile should come ahead?
  • pmabrahampmabraham Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 145 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    valiadgr, thank you for sharing your experience and insight. If you wanted to do well solo as well as group in PVE content, would you go MoF/Renegade as you are now or SS/Renegade? Would you also mind sharing your build? Thank you!
  • ghoulz66ghoulz66 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,748 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Question.

    Is smolder/creeping frost/warped magics damage affected by debuffs/buffs?
  • chemboy613chemboy613 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,521 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    SS Renegade with CP/CA and SS is very very strong mod 5 - definately looking into it.

    Because Swath is so good for team DPS and CC is great for smolder, i prefer thaum for MoF. I just feel dropping one of those two features, even for 10% crit and chilling presence, is too much. Remember swath is 15% TEAM DPS - which is absolutely huge. My thought this mod is SS/Rene and MoF/Thaum, hopefully used in combination with GPF/P.Terror

    Smolder/creeping frost/warped magics is effected by all sorts of buffs and debuffs. Something weird, smolder crits more than it should and elemental empowerment crits less that it should. Go figure, huh?
    http://chemboy613.tumblr.com/ - Neverwinter Photoblog

    Everything you need to know about CW:

    http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
  • ghoulz66ghoulz66 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,748 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Been using a perfect lightning and it feels really underwhelming. Bought another GPF cause my combat turned trapper is using my previous GPF.
  • pmabrahampmabraham Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 145 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    I used the free respec token from the winter festival event to switch from SS/Thaum to MoF/Renegade. While I just made the switch yesterday afternoon, so far I'm enjoying the play style much better.

    Screenshot2014-12-24112234_zpsc34b8dea.png

    I was surprised on the DPS given I'm using a lessor terror weapon enchantment and the renegade buffs/debuffs with swath et al.
  • onegaki101onegaki101 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 327 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    I used to be a MoF/Thaum, but switched to MoF/Rene after a week or so ago. Really enjoy it. I dropped Swath of Destruction until I feel we need the extra dps boost. Love the extra crit, especially from the offhand. It's fun just seeing all those orange numbers popping up left and right. I find rene helps with soloing dungeon as you can get combat advantage and keep high dps/healing.
  • ghoulz66ghoulz66 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,748 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Wait, my stupid question was supposed to be about Focused Wizardry... Are those DoTs affected by it?
  • beatannierbeatannier Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 692 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Focused Wizardry increases AoE Power`s dmg.
    Power is either At–Will, Encounter or Daily, no mechanism (like Smolder) nor Feats.

    btw. Smolder benefits from all buffs/debuffs and changes every re–apply (can upcrit or decrit on re–apply, but not on tick. It`s complicated).
    .Suicide Squad.

    Master of Flame Renegade guide: Burn with me!
  • aulduronaulduron Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,351 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Focused Wizardry buffs single damage powers 10-to 30% and decreases AoEs by 30-10%.

    Since I'm not MoF, I don't know if those powers are AE or single.
  • beatannierbeatannier Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 692 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Your area effect powers deal 3/6/9% more damage
    /10char /10char
    .Suicide Squad.

    Master of Flame Renegade guide: Burn with me!
  • aulduronaulduron Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,351 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    That's outdated, as of mod 4.

    This is what the tool tip says in game.
    Focused Wizardry: *REWORK* Now increases single target damage by 10/20/30% but reduces AoE damage by 30/20/10%.

    http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?708161-Updated-list-of-Changes-for-Control-Wizard-s-in-Module-4
  • huejaynushuejaynus Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    I used to run SS Regn. (best for pure DPS and "taking out the trash") i did a respecc to SS Thaum but i didnt like it as much. There arnt much benefits from it. Now im running a MoF Regn. Right off the back my DPS dropped (prob cause im still learning the mechanics). I guess the feature i most eenjoy is the extra 15% crit sev and the DoT smoldeer provides. Much of my build if centered around buffing up through at-wills and icy terrain to then use encounters for maximum effectiveness.
    im going to continue testing this build and get back to you with more detailed information. But right off the back for PvE pure DPS SS Regn is the way to go (at least so far). I have only played my new build a few hours and continue to place 1st in DPS against othere SS`s but im thinking they just suck.

    Hold on to your respec token till there is more info.
  • beatannierbeatannier Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 692 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    aulduron wrote: »
    That's outdated, as of mod 4.
    Oh. Didn`t know that. I am sorry :eek:

    Official wiki is still not updated. That led me to mislead you.
    I`m sorry again. My fault. And thanks for watchful and correction.
    .Suicide Squad.

    Master of Flame Renegade guide: Burn with me!
  • ghoulz66ghoulz66 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,748 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    aulduron wrote: »
    That's outdated, as of mod 4.

    This is what the tool tip says in game.



    http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?708161-Updated-list-of-Changes-for-Control-Wizard-s-in-Module-4

    But has it been tested for mod 6? Does it still affect those?
  • c1k4ml3kc3c1k4ml3kc3 Member Posts: 1,257 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    pmabraham wrote: »
    I used the free respec token from the winter festival event to switch from SS/Thaum to MoF/Renegade. While I just made the switch yesterday afternoon, so far I'm enjoying the play style much better.

    Screenshot2014-12-24112234_zpsc34b8dea.png

    I was surprised on the DPS given I'm using a lessor terror weapon enchantment and the renegade buffs/debuffs with swath et al.

    Yes, this will happen with a Renegade build all the time, Gold bracket to the fullest, because the Healing ability which comes into the play will be a great benefactor to achieving this.

    I must also note that repelling the enemies into the chasm will prove to count as a DPS since their full HP/Kill ratio will be added to your "dps" overall, thus providing item drops.

    Truth be told, my friends have received similar things on each Bracket, so I don't think it's of much value to be first or last on this. I only wish that there's a system which replaces the AFKers and reduces the difficulty based on how much people are missing from the instance.

    As for the DPS of a SS, it's practically just Chilling Presence in combination with the Storm Spell. The tricky par was achieving the 50-ish % of Critical Chance, however. Which got revoked recently, thus finally allowing more options to play a build and be party-friendly more than usual.

    What I find disappointing is that certain control powers are lacking by a large margin. If there was an Artifact offering more control or any control of any sort similar to that of Arcane Singulairty, that'd be an amazing build for a Control Wizard. The neverending meta is "Outheal by DPS", which was never easier with the Renegade tree.
    True Neutral
    Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
  • vnrenshivnrenshi Member Posts: 64
    edited December 2014
    "As for the DPS of a SS, it's practically just Chilling Presence in combination with the Storm Spell. The tricky par was achieving the 50-ish % of Critical Chance, however. Which got revoked recently, thus finally allowing more options to play a build and be party-friendly more than usual. "

    having trouble understanding exactly what you're saying here....i still have over 50% crit chance as spellstorm without attempting to stack any crit chance (2694 rating)

    on the topic in question, from personal experience, MoF thaum is superior to MoF Renegade. The damage loss from going renegade as MoF really isn't made up for by the group buffs you provide, unless perhaps you're always the only CW in your dungeon groups.

    the big drawback in going MoF/Renegade is that you're generally unable to utilize one of the core class features from the renegade tree (chilling presence) due to the 2 indispensable class features you're already using (critical conflagration/swath of destruction) Spellstorm renegades can apply the same buff/debuff benefits while also providing significantly more damage than their MoF counterparts, whereas MoF Thaums can still debuff via critical conflagration/swath while dealing a respectable amount of damage.

    ideally, i'd like to have both SS/Rene and MoF/Thaum in a group for proper min/maxing on damage/debuffs
  • pointsmanpointsman Member Posts: 2,327 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    beatannier wrote: »
    Focused Wizardry increases AoE Power`s dmg.
    Power is either At–Will, Encounter or Daily, no mechanism (like Smolder) nor Feats.

    btw. Smolder benefits from all buffs/debuffs and changes every re–apply (can upcrit or decrit on re–apply, but not on tick. It`s complicated).

    No, Smolder is buffed by Focused Wizardry. And since Smolder is such a huge part of MoF, ya gotta take it.
  • ghoulz66ghoulz66 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,748 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    pointsman wrote: »
    No, Smolder is buffed by Focused Wizardry. And since Smolder is such a huge part of MoF, ya gotta take it.

    Not the thaum feats though? Hoped to have that settled days ago:(
  • c1k4ml3kc3c1k4ml3kc3 Member Posts: 1,257 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    I still think that thaum takes the advantage here. DoT's and Burst are not very good M8s
    True Neutral
    Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
  • abaddon523abaddon523 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    ghoulz66 wrote: »
    Not the thaum feats though? Hoped to have that settled days ago:(

    From my testing Focused Wizardry buffs Smolder, Assailant, Creeping Frost and Warped Magics. However it does not buff Storm Spell.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • nathyielnathyiel Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 340 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    abaddon523 wrote: »
    From my testing Focused Wizardry buffs Smolder, Assailant, Creeping Frost and Warped Magics. However it does not buff Storm Spell.

    It should come from the way they work. All effect you listed depend on weapon damage. Are Spell Storm effect use it too or not ?
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