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HP vs Defense Guide
abaddon523
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
So you have a piece of equipment with an empty defense slot...what do you put in it?
There are four choices: Lifesteal, Deflect, Defense, and Hit Points.
Lifesteal is great for DPS classes, but diminishing returns hits it very, very hard once you are up around 1500. It's not much use in going above that.
Deflect is very useful for Rogues who get 75% deflection severity, but for everyone else who is stuck at 50% it is a vastly inferior option.
So the question then becomes, "Should I stack HP or Defense? Which will give my character a bigger increase in survivability?" The answer is that it depends on how much HP and defense you currently have. To figure out which will be better for you just consult the handy-dandy chart below:
If you are above the line, you should increase your HP. If you are below the line, increase your defense.
The chart was generated using an overall measure of "durability" which I defined as "how much abuse your character can take before they die." (That measure was derived from the Defense to Damage Resistance curve from here: https://www.desmos.com/calculator/3dqpvhuavj and the HP curve, which is linear)
If your character has huge amounts of HP and no defense, or huge amounts of defense with low HP they're more likely to get one-shotted or beaten to death than if you had distributed your stats via the chart. If your character is on the line you have the best possible balance of HP and Defense. If your character departs from the line significantly then you are not getting the best "bang for your buck" in stat distribution.
Hope this helps.
*Edit - This does not take into account the Guardian Fighter's ability to block damage. That will throw the calculations off quite a bit. However, because of how much defense GF's get from their gear I would think the choice for them would always be more HP.
There are four choices: Lifesteal, Deflect, Defense, and Hit Points.
Lifesteal is great for DPS classes, but diminishing returns hits it very, very hard once you are up around 1500. It's not much use in going above that.
Deflect is very useful for Rogues who get 75% deflection severity, but for everyone else who is stuck at 50% it is a vastly inferior option.
So the question then becomes, "Should I stack HP or Defense? Which will give my character a bigger increase in survivability?" The answer is that it depends on how much HP and defense you currently have. To figure out which will be better for you just consult the handy-dandy chart below:
If you are above the line, you should increase your HP. If you are below the line, increase your defense.
The chart was generated using an overall measure of "durability" which I defined as "how much abuse your character can take before they die." (That measure was derived from the Defense to Damage Resistance curve from here: https://www.desmos.com/calculator/3dqpvhuavj and the HP curve, which is linear)
If your character has huge amounts of HP and no defense, or huge amounts of defense with low HP they're more likely to get one-shotted or beaten to death than if you had distributed your stats via the chart. If your character is on the line you have the best possible balance of HP and Defense. If your character departs from the line significantly then you are not getting the best "bang for your buck" in stat distribution.
Hope this helps.
*Edit - This does not take into account the Guardian Fighter's ability to block damage. That will throw the calculations off quite a bit. However, because of how much defense GF's get from their gear I would think the choice for them would always be more HP.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Post edited by abaddon523 on
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That's why most people just say "stack HP" - it's hard to avoid getting too much defense.
All that would mean for a GF is that if there is ever a choice between the two, pick HP every time.
Also, I would think it can't be applied to a GF because of how Blocking will upset the calculations. I'll go ahead and add that disclaimer now.
My rule of thumb had been get 1500 defense, then work on HPs - but I guess it should be more like get 27k HPs, then work on defense.
Gah, building even more radiant enchantments...
With it having huge DRs and being absolutely ignored by ArP it becomes such a 'meh' stat that it makes me cry, because I hate high amounts of HP in my characters.
Sopi SW Youtube channel pvp brickabrack
1. certain classes have Def/AC modifiers as GWF/GF for sent gwf i think it should be 1.35%
2. Tenacity is a multiplier with def/rating so it adds to another 20% atm or 30%(after update) to that value if i;m not mistaken.
3. for pvp it also depends on how much arpen opponent has.
Edit: would love to see some graphs for those cases. Ty for your work!
Ha. All my characters are well above the line with at least two of them being off the scale in terms of defense.
I'm still puddling around at the rank 5/6 level of enchant and 480/600 HP seems like such a trivial increase. It might be time to experiment and make some more radiants when the 2xRP event rolls around.
lol yea this "chart" isn't very useful.
my CW has 1860 def / 21k hp. according to this he should have 45k hp. lol as if.
answer = lifesteal.
Keep in mind that there are enemies that will reduce your DR.
The chart doesn't tell that you "should" have 40k HP. It lets you know that if you want your character to have better survivability then you'd gain more by increasing your HP than than you would by further increasing your defense. Nothing more.
And as I mentioned in the opening premise, Lifesteal gets whomped by diminishing returns as it goes up. If you already have 1500 Lifesteal along with Dragon's Thirst and Endless Consumption boons then you'd gain just as much by throwing your points down a hole as you would by adding them to Lifesteal.
1. I can probably do. 2) and 3) I doubt I'll want to touch with a 10-foot pole. Once we're dealing with PvP this goes from a fairly simple exercise to a rather complex (and time consuming) one. With different players having different amounts of Armor Penetration negating wildly different amounts of DR, not to mention the different spells and abilities that remove, negate, or ignore defense all together it just adds too many variables to definitively say whether Defense or HP will benefit someone more in a given situation. I strongly suspect the answer to the question in PvP is HP in most every case, but I can't mathematically back that up. At least not without putting in more work than I care to.
Edit: if you could re-post with DR rather than defense it would be very useful.
Deflect, for everyone who is not a TR, is terrible. Just as an example - say someone has 25k HP, 500 defense and 500 deflect.
If they were to increase their deflection by 500 their durability would go up 2.36%
If they were to increase their defense by 500 their durability would go up 8.54%
If they were to increase their HP by 2000 their durability would go up 7.68%
It matches with the chart that this person should choose defense. And it's pretty clear that Deflection just plain stinks. If this character were a TR, even with 75% deflection severity, Deflection would still lag pretty far behind.
Your copy-paste needs correction. I'm guessing one of those should say deflection.
Reserved for DR vs. HP chart
Right you are. Fixed.
Just tell me the AC and aplicable feats of the toon you used to generate it. I can reverse-engineer from there...
lol ya, I guess you're gonna need, like 25 more defense slots. somehow. all with perfect radiants... GL with that ........ #smf
SW, 42k hp, 2k defense. Slight sub-optimal but If I switch out my 1 azure for a radiant i'm sub-optimal the other way so it'll have to stay.
HR, 30k hp, 2k defense. I only have radiants slotted so I can't change it.
GWF 25k hp, 4k defense. I only have azure's slotted in defense slots cus GWF. unstoppable > chart. Defense = power, power = dmg.
Great work as always...Thank You. Question, as a CW with HV, would the Defense buff factor in a similar way as eots lowers the amount of crit needed for a SS mage?
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Bump because abaddon is the s@$t!
One of them there feats I was talking about before.....
The answer is maybe. Some powers apply the debuff to the enemy but do not apply the defense buff to you. It would completely depend on what spell rotation you are using.
Armor Class does affect the numbers. But not dramatically so.