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WhisperKnife -vs- MasterInfiltrator
keobr09
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
Hello guyz,
TR was my first class, first love. bla blabla
Shortly enough, i always played Master Infiltrator and always did great, but suddenly i come into a guy with same GS as me, with a single disheartening strike, dealing almost 20k damage (i use full profounds tho). A quick reminder before answering me: I dont use ITC on my rotation, and im not planing to use it. so pls, forget that ITC exists when answering the questions
I wondered... is WK now better than MI? If you guys could pls answer my questions i would appreciate!
Thank you guys
TR was my first class, first love. bla blabla
Shortly enough, i always played Master Infiltrator and always did great, but suddenly i come into a guy with same GS as me, with a single disheartening strike, dealing almost 20k damage (i use full profounds tho). A quick reminder before answering me: I dont use ITC on my rotation, and im not planing to use it. so pls, forget that ITC exists when answering the questions
I wondered... is WK now better than MI? If you guys could pls answer my questions i would appreciate!
1)How is Whisperknife on PvE compared to MI? Is there a big difference on DPS? How is DisStrike on mobs and bosses?
R:
2)My rotation are, SS, SB, LB on a saboteur tree. I use mainly cloud of steel... should a WK benefit more of this rotation?
R:
3) For testing shard players, how's MI and WK with the stealth nerf (2 seconds reveal). Does the dot still reveal us for the entire time?
R:
4) With the new changes, would be better to play WK ranged or stick melee with MI?
R:
5) Does it worths changing to WK?
R:
Thank you guys
Post edited by keobr09 on
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Comments
Since you seem to love Cloud of Steel there's a passive (yellow power) called "Dagger Threat" which increases the damage of Cloud of Steel, Disheartening Strike, and Impact Shot (And any ranged power really).
I think you'd better off being a WK by this post alone -> "I dont use ITC on my rotation, and im not planing to use it. so pls, forget that ITC exists when answering the questions".
ITC = signature move of MI... since you don't care about it, go WK.
PVP - Don't bother until final changes in TR are made. If a WK will be visible for 2 seconds after an at will, he will be a dead WK.
Whisperknife is an alternative route for a TR that is completely different in playstlye (both tactics and strategy) from an MI. The devs, however, treat them both the same and continually make thoughtless adjustments that vastly different results for the two paragons. Until they differentiate a ranged playstyle from a melee playstyle and design accordingly, my advice is don't bother with the WK. I've played one since the beginning of the paragon and it's now feeling like time wasted.
Unfortunately, I have to agree with this.
I played WK since it came out and it's always been less than optimal when compared to Master Infiltrator.
WK had a short time lived but blanket changes made to TR always impacted WK more. Mod 5 was a brief revival to WK, however, if an opponent has sight of you for 2 seconds, that's 2 seconds of spamming dodge in a 1v1/small skirmish scenario. The only redeeming quality that may come of this change is a radius of sight. This may push WK to a fully ranged role or it may be a pretty big blow to overall viability. We'll have to see.
Go Cryptic!
PS - I quit.
Currently a WK/Sab theoretically has the highest PvE DPS output possible under normal circumstances. For one thing a well placed DHS(Disheartening Strike) alone adds around 2.5k per second as damage. The main element of damage comes from "Stealth Flurries" -- a technique in which you hit the first and second attack out of stealth, and then enter stealth as the third, flurry strikes come out. A Saboteuer can re-enter stealth with every DF strike you use, using the Saboteuer restealthing feats such as OWTS or RTS.
This solely depends on the situation. PvP? PvE? Mass-mobs? Boss fights? In terms of PvE, there's no real reason to use CoS, since the utility of CoS mainly comes from the natural advantages of range. In other words, CoS is a classic "attack from a safe distance" tool. It's not the highest damaging at-will, but it gives you the advantage of distance against melees, as well as puts you on equal ground against ranged classes.
As a matter of fact, WK can be made like any other melee-based build when it comes to PvE, since clearly melee powers are stronger for DPS purposes, and in PvE, DPS is everything. Ranged WK builds are generally considered for PvP.
It's hard to say. Need more testing, but IMO currently it has got to do more with the build path, rather than MI-WK paragon difference.
2 seconds of revelation is threatening, but empirically, it can be better managed with a ranged WK with some tactful thinking.. for example; throwing DHS from long-range, the angle being rear side of your target -- reflexes/reaction time differs greatly between different players, but usually when your target does not have any prior knowledge of you in the vicinity, it usually takes time at least 1 seconds to realize that they are under attack. Then they first look around, not see anything, and then they decide to turn around. This can significantly cut down your exposure time. (Things are different when the enemy already knows you are there, and is actively engaging you, in which case they're response time speeds up as they already routinely scan different angles)
Of course, things are very different for MIs who usually make use of Gloaming Cut, in which case they'd be immediately noticed since it is melee.
Things are also a bit better for Scoundrels in which case initial "set-up" attacks can avoid retaliation through ranged attacks proccing Concussive Strikes. Also, Executioners would be less effected since they don't really need to attack much in stealth -- their pattern almost always being "First Strike applied alpha attack → run away like hell".
It's worth it in PvE -- at least, it's on par with MI and probably slightly better.
In PvP the implications are very different. Those two fight very different, and have very relative advantages/disadvantages according to what build they use. For example any Scoundrel is quite advantageous against a WK, and if its a MI/Scoundrel, then it is quite difficult to beat with any WK build. A MI/Scoundrel is almost like a natural predator to any WK.
MIs usually have a bit of an advantage over WKs when these two TR types meet, and its due to the fact that ITC usually deprives the WK of any openings to exploit upon. However, the recent changes to VP have made it the ultimate "Ace-in-the-Hole" to use against MIs, so it usually comes down like this: the MI wins if the WK fails to make significant use of VP during combat, the WK wins if it 'reads' the ITC pattern and manages to "hunt down" the MI in stealth when it has ITC in cooldown. Surprisingly few WK players really know how to use VP against a MI. A very, very clever use of VP can actually bring up the WK's winning chance against the 'natural predator' MI/Scoundrel to almost 55:45, whereas without the use of VP this chance would be changed to almost 75:25 in favor of the MI.
As for fighting other classes, the MI, due to its predominantly melee nature, manages a high-risk, high-reward type of fight, whereas WK, usually being ranged, manages a slower but safer, more cold and calculated fights.
As for PvP itself, the MI is clearly more advantageous than a WK in terms of 'node-fighting'. ITC is that much superior to VP when you assume a situation multiple enemies are out to get you. I can usually manage to survive just as much with VP alone -- if, provided, the multiple enemies are all melees, but once 'ranged CCs' are involved, then the WK is dead.
So, to sum it up, in terms of pure combat force the WK can be up to par with any MI, but in terms of solely "node-fighting", as Domination PvP requires, the MI is superior.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
So, is there a time frame of when can we expect changes for TR patches to be made? And will it likely affect the Saboteur tree?
It will most CERTAINLY effect the Sabs the most. Especially MI/Sabs.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Pvp sab is dead dont even bother with it.
Pve sab is dead too, flurry no longer applies shadowy opportunity.
PvP wk is no longer a thing since you are visible with no reliable cc breaker.
You may have some success with a wk exe trollish build tho in random pvps.
In pve stick with exe mi and start using itc
Even in mod 4 ITC was the least power one should take especialy for a boss fight. Under roll changes it's just not relevant anymore.
Could you explain to me exactly how can WK surpass MI dps without Invisible Infiltrator? Its pretty much the only thing that i miss from MI ;s
Perhaps Dagger Threat? 15 percent more damage added to DH. Than in feats use Distracting Knife and play like a shadow priest lol. Dot dot dot kill. Honestly though I just started playing on my WK I use to be all about MI. WK is a bit funner and seems a bit more burstier using Vengeance pursuit.
I will share my load out I use.
Stealth DH- VP-VP-DS-LB works pretty good . One rotation @ level 40 on my WK kills most anyone even clerics.
DHS. It's a given constant.
The main component of damage, as said before, for both WKs and MIs when they are Sabs, is the stealth-flurry. WKs add in around extra 2.5k DPS (DHS ticking for around 4k per every 1.5s), and then being a single-shot at-will DoT that lasts 15s, they can apply this to around max 3 targets at the same time. That will guarantee a constant 7.5k DPS even when the TR doesn't do anything.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'