i think we are talking about the average players, not 1 that is deck out, damage you see i believe is inclusive of the dc/gf buff/debuff?
A gwf with less than 8k power will prolly cry when compare to a similar gs players of other class, damage wise
Yep, becouse GWFs can deal almost 50k dmg from a single skill in pvp. Look again on my posted video and go on 1:28 there is dmg -323k from Come and get it (show me CW dealing that massive damage), so 15% means realy nothing, they still can One shot people in domination and make very high dps on dungeons. Last time i get 37,5k from PapaBigN with shield on tab, GWF dmg is crazy and his survivability is good to, so please stop this strange posts that GWF is weak, no he isn't.
I didn't vote because the option I want is missing: Neutral. I have at least one of every class available and they all play relatively the same (none is really better or worse than any other from my perspective) - they do play differently for certain.
So it would help if the OP clarified the poll criteria; in what context is the class considered "worst"? Everyone has a different perspective, so the "worst class" will always be one you;re not playing, OR it will be the one you're playing but not doing very well on. And in both cases there are just too many variable to make such a perspective applicable to anything other than that players own experience.
Yep, becouse GWFs can deal almost 50k dmg from a single skill in pvp. Look again on my posted video and go on 1:28 there is dmg -323k from Come and get it (show me CW dealing that massive damage), so 15% means realy nothing, they still can One shot people in domination and make very high dps on dungeons. Last time i get 37,5k from PapaBigN with shield on tab, GWF dmg is crazy and his survivability is good to, so please stop this strange posts that GWF is weak, no he isn't.
Once again, you are talking about near BiS or BiS types with one build. Ive seen some perfect vorpal wielding, multiple legendary, enchant 9,10's do some amazing stuff as well.
But you clearly misunderstand the issue, that curve to usefulness is very high on a GWF and you have to be vastly overgeared to get to that point. An average 18k GWF, with 7-8 k power and destroyer spec is pretty worthless in both pve and pvp. It has no survive skills, has medicore CC now and does less damage then other classes in the same gear range (not score, since its inflated on a GWF, so really more like a 18k gwf is like a 16-17ish k most other classes)
These average GWFs have almost no function in or out of pvp.
Again, I just rotate things around, I play all the classes, Im focusing on the CW/DC right now due to the nerfs. The simply overnered the destroyer tree and even with 40k hitpoints a simple cult pack in elol can destroy a average gwf now in a second. Thats pretty poor design for a class/build that has to get class to attack.
0
silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
edited December 2014
Question.. who was the troll who voted for a CW =P..
quite good classment except maybe two things, FOR PVP part here what i would say. in low lvl classment is correct but in hl classment, i would give 4 to GWF and 3 to CW (due to the fact that GWF mainly require lot of PV in PVP and once he get it he is quite hard while on opposite lot of pv tend to affect more CW build and make it more useless)
i have to vote SW, class is a total mess and without a certain pve set is bad in both contents. GWF comes close second cause it depends on a single feat that depends also on the gear and third place goes to pve GF that kills things so so slow....
As I sayed my main is a MoF and even without an optmized build in PvE I feel unstopabble, if I get the optimal gear and if I retcon I bet I ll get bored of PvE because of lack of challenge.
In the other side in PvP I suck no matter what I try. I have never felt so weak in PvP in another game, but imo CW should be a 4 in PvP, Control means the class is optimized against AoD, stuns, holds, etc and not in single target dps which is the best option for an offensive class in PvP, so I would never expect a 5 for a CW.
In the other hand as a controller i feel i fail a lot in both PvP and PvE, all my feats and stats are focused in control, but it looks like as control i do not help too much to the party as i do as dps, and even in PvP my control is weaker than the GF and TR stuns. In my opinion our dps my be nerfed and our crowd control increased or at least remove the "Control" and call us just Wizards.
0
chemboy613Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,521Arc User
edited December 2014
CW isn't overpowered in PvE, we had favorably designed game content at launch.
As I sayed my main is a MoF and even without an optmized build in PvE I feel unstopabble, if I get the optimal gear and if I retcon I bet I ll get bored of PvE because of lack of challenge.
In the other side in PvP I suck no matter what I try. I have never felt so weak in PvP in another game, but imo CW should be a 4 in PvP, Control means the class is optimized against AoD, stuns, holds, etc and not in single target dps which is the best option for an offensive class in PvP, so I would never expect a 5 for a CW.
In the other hand as a controller i feel i fail a lot in both PvP and PvE, all my feats and stats are focused in control, but it looks like as control i do not help too much to the party as i do as dps, and even in PvP my control is weaker than the GF and TR stuns. In my opinion our dps my be nerfed and our crowd control increased or at least remove the "Control" and call us just Wizards.
Can you post you MOF, i'm curious, MOF actual default is he is based on debuf and since CW have low base damage. MOF are the joke part for solo. MOF/ renegade main point is a party buffer ( a good one) but lack of damage by itself. So i do not see where it's overpowered (especially since the buff canno't stack with multiple MOF). it'S good but not overpwered. If party not suffisant you won't be able to get it with your own should and in most case you won't give more than what an other same geared class would give.
Actual MOF mainly get the old DC debuf function with maybe little more survivability, a 5 is ok ( and personnaly i would give 4 to mof and 5 to stormspell), but overpowered isn't, it's lack of defensive mechanism to be called like that
I dunno why ppl are saying GWF useless..i alwaz feel safe when playing with a good GWF..its like the party bodyguard...and u know dps isnt everything
How that? Gwf can heal? I have one and never noticed so far. Gwf can't steal aggro either. As for cc-ing, maybe one target at the time, and non-trash mobs will usually resist. Can pull to some extent, if Senti. But that's not much though, and that's still only one branch out of three.
ToD = ..........
Tired of Dailies/Tyranny of Dailies/Timers of Doom/Tricked Or Duped/Tremendously Obnoxious Dailies/Try Otherwise, Devs
Can you post you MOF, i'm curious, MOF actual default is he is based on debuf and since CW have low base damage. MOF are the joke part for solo. MOF/ renegade main point is a party buffer ( a good one) but lack of damage by itself. So i do not see where it's overpowered (especially since the buff canno't stack with multiple MOF). it'S good but not overpwered. If party not suffisant you won't be able to get it with your own should and in most case you won't give more than what an other same geared class would give.
Actual MOF mainly get the old DC debuf function with maybe little more survivability, a 5 is ok ( and personnaly i would give 4 to mof and 5 to stormspell), but overpowered isn't, it's lack of defensive mechanism to be called like that
I am not OP yet, what I mean is with my current build and gear (12k gs) I can play all content without much effort, when I get max gear and if I retcon my feats and stats into DPS I may be over anyother pure DPS class, thats bad because CW is not a pure DPS by definition.
With my current build I tryed to focus on Control and defuff, but I failed for that, it is working better as area DPS with a bit of control.
The next image is my main build with I modify against Dragons and PvP:
Class features: "Combustive Action" and "Swath of Destruction" (sometimes I replace the latter with "Evocation")
0
chemboy613Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,521Arc User
This is why I say CW is OP in PvE, the game seems to be made for us.
I am not OP yet, what I mean is with my current build and gear (12k gs) I can play all content without much effort, when I get max gear and if I retcon my feats and stats into DPS I may be over anyother pure DPS class, thats bad because CW is not a pure DPS by definition.
With my current build I tryed to focus on Control and defuff, but I failed for that, it is working better as area DPS with a bit of control.
The next image is my main build with I modify against Dragons and PvP:
Class features: "Combustive Action" and "Swath of Destruction" (sometimes I replace the latter with "Evocation")
Hey man, suggest you should read my guide. There's a few ways your feats could be improved.
The old content was designed so that 12k GS was really good to take it on. We have outgeared it now. my CW is 19.3k (without stat point stacking), and most of the game isn't hard for me,
but then understand i have over a year of experience, a perfectly tuned spec, and BIS gear up and down - hence it SHOULD be easy for me.
It was 2013 when I was 12k, a long time ago. I don't remember content at that level very well, TBH. I remember when it was like 9-10k, and back then the game was appreciably challenging.
IMO, should ask- least desired class in party (last picked.) I don't know that one class could be the last in both pve and pvp. But if you gave a scale 10 evaluation for each, you could maybe make a choice.. and if a trend were present, maybe something could get fixed. Or at least we could have a nice time pretending that it will.
I personally think GWF is in the worst position right now because his mechanics require him to jump right in the middle of everything, but he can puff up defense and strike with wet noodle, or he can puff up offense and party to an early demise. My GWFs do fine soloing.. but when you get in amongst the silly things that people do.. A bit lackluster.
Chose GF, was HAMSTER for over a year, is decent now, but only as punching bag. No real DnD GF, no real power, no base crit, very little to non arm pen, regen is draining away with artifact weapons, no life steal, no 360 degree defense.... Only good if you are a money warrior any can spend a ton on him to make him a bit better, on low levels and with normal enchants a total disaster. The concept still is in beta phase, as i see it.
The real honest man is honest from conviction of what is right, not from policy.
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
0
chemboy613Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,521Arc User
edited December 2014
My question is - why do people think SW is bad? In PvE, a well built, well played SW is amazingly effective. Tyranical threat is amazing.
IMO, should ask- least desired class in party (last picked.) I don't know that one class could be the last in both pve and pvp. But if you gave a scale 10 evaluation for each, you could maybe make a choice.. and if a trend were present, maybe something could get fixed. Or at least we could have a nice time pretending that it will.
I personally think GWF is in the worst position right now because his mechanics require him to jump right in the middle of everything, but he can puff up defense and strike with wet noodle, or he can puff up offense and party to an early demise. My GWFs do fine soloing.. but when you get in amongst the silly things that people do.. A bit lackluster.
my experince too. I run like 35k HP and close to 3k def (which i would drop if my GWF was a higher priority) and I don't die easily, but my damage is very very meh.
When i see the "Dps GWF" i look at them and i say... "my CW has more def, more HP, and does more damage than you." Those builds are equally silly.
That's why it requires massive gear to be effective as a GWF. they need some boost.
What?! I have 2 Devoted Clerics... and hell yes I know lots about Clerics. I also have a Rogue and a Warlock.
You all think it is nice with DC in PvP when it can heal/buff you I see? Ok here is my stake on playing DC in PvP one vs one we are maybe 2! In PvE we are if really hard content 5 and the dps has been improved so maybe 4 with less hard content.
In huge PvP fights example Gauntlgrym PvP mass fights yes then Cleric is better maybe 3-4.
Finally I don't get why Warlock are 1 in PvP, but my Warlock is only level 52 so I have hard to judge that, but so far it is not bad.
...You all think it is nice with DC in PvP when it can heal/buff you I see? Ok here is my stake on playing DC in PvP one vs one we are maybe 2! In PvE we are if really hard content 5 and the dps has been improved so maybe 4 with less hard content...
.
I play DC in PvE and played against them in PvP. This is not about you, but the class in general. Obviously not every build is viable for PvP or PvE. A friend of mine tried to PvP with his dmg DC and mediocre gear, he got crushed. Now, take a faithfull speced DC for PvP. I have personaly dealt 60k+ dmg to a 16k DC with my 21k+ GWF in a perfect rotation (all crits including daily) and he went back to full HP, while flying in the air from my daily. Until faithful, astral shield and sunburst get fixed, they OP in PvP. If you think, that your goal in PvP is to kill the enemy players, you might opt for 2/5. If you play to win, by capturing, holding and defending nodes, my ranking is 5/5.
Now PvE, here the dmg DC shines he can buff the party dps up to 100%, while dealing more dmg himself, than many of the other classes. Concidering group utility and not just personal dps, DC gets a 5/5 here as well.
You would have to use different specs to shine in PvE and PvP, but that goes for every other class I played until now.
Chars: CW, DC, GF, GWF, HR and TR.
0
elewyndylMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I play DC in PvE and played against them in PvP. This is not about you, but the class in general. Obviously not every build is viable for PvP or PvE. A friend of mine tried to PvP with his dmg DC and mediocre gear, he got crushed. Now, take a faithfull speced DC for PvP. I have personaly dealt 60k+ dmg to a 16k DC with my 21k+ GWF in a perfect rotation (all crits including daily) and he went back to full HP, while flying in the air from my daily. Until faithful, astral shield and sunburst get fixed, they OP in PvP. If you think, that your goal in PvP is to kill the enemy players, you might opt for 2/5. If you play to win, by capturing, holding and defending nodes, my ranking is 5/5.
Now PvE, here the dmg DC shines he can buff the party dps up to 100%, while dealing more dmg himself, than many of the other classes. Concidering group utility and not just personal dps, DC gets a 5/5 here as well.
You would have to use different specs to shine in PvE and PvP, but that goes for every other class I played until now.
First of all GWF and GF get more gs so you can not say that GWF 16k = DC 16k.
Second of all I do know that most DC still use sunburst, but I never ever use sunburst even in PvP lol sunburst is OLD and gone from good spells to use. Well I do not say what I use, but sunburst never have to be fixed and I not care about sunburst.
I even met with my Rogue a very bad DC that lol used sunburst in The Shores of Turen Epic Skirmish. I am polite when I play so I did not say nothing even if that DC sucked, but I would have wanted to say learn to play a DC. Great healing from that DC in the Epic Skirmish? Really not that DC was not good with healing or dps either.
DC is very good in PvE if you know how to play a DC etc.
I meant like PvP duel 1 vs 1 when I fight my real life friend then my Rogue can easily win 100% against his Control Wizard. If I take a DC vs Control Wizard then then DC is dead if CW get control and usually that happen even if you have PvP armor etc.
Yep, becouse GWFs can deal almost 50k dmg from a single skill in pvp. Look again on my posted video and go on 1:28 there is dmg -323k from Come and get it (show me CW dealing that massive damage), so 15% means realy nothing, they still can One shot people in domination and make very high dps on dungeons. Last time i get 37,5k from PapaBigN with shield on tab, GWF dmg is crazy and his survivability is good to, so please stop this strange posts that GWF is weak, no he isn't.
PvP wise sure GWF is pretty balanced , PvE though I disagree . If your impressed with a 50k crit that only hits 5 targets you should try a CW sometime . I lead with chilling cloud which almost always procs eye of the storm , for the next 6 seconds everything crits , COi (ticks how many times?) , icy terrain , storm spell ( stacks 6 chills) , and steal time . I'm not critting 5 targets Im critting EVERY target on top of the storm spell damage which is as bad as the old deep gash bug .By the time I finished that 4 encounter Im ready to start the next one while the gwf is waiting for a cooldown doing weak at will damage even in unstoppable . Your GWF damage may be good if your fighting with 4 GF's or are running with low end pugs but if your in a group with the same gs and skill level the gwf is 4th place damage if he's lucky . The worse thing about gwf right now in my opinion is everyone else is pulling so much aggro with damage ads pretty much ignore a gwf , if your not using CaGi your chasing ads . GWF by design was meant to be an aoe dps class but it's far from that now and when you que gwf is pulled for dps , when they show up in the party they are booted for a real dps class . TR , DC , CW , SW take your pick , any of the 4 do more damage .
GWF gets my vote as worse class right now hands down . I'm not here to bash GWF players , Im trying to get them a little love from the devs , They are in bad need of it .
Comments
i think we are talking about the average players, not 1 that is deck out, damage you see i believe is inclusive of the dc/gf buff/debuff?
A gwf with less than 8k power will prolly cry when compare to a similar gs players of other class, damage wise
uhm theres a cw and a sw in the vid too
Yep, becouse GWFs can deal almost 50k dmg from a single skill in pvp. Look again on my posted video and go on 1:28 there is dmg -323k from Come and get it (show me CW dealing that massive damage), so 15% means realy nothing, they still can One shot people in domination and make very high dps on dungeons. Last time i get 37,5k from PapaBigN with shield on tab, GWF dmg is crazy and his survivability is good to, so please stop this strange posts that GWF is weak, no he isn't.
So it would help if the OP clarified the poll criteria; in what context is the class considered "worst"? Everyone has a different perspective, so the "worst class" will always be one you;re not playing, OR it will be the one you're playing but not doing very well on. And in both cases there are just too many variable to make such a perspective applicable to anything other than that players own experience.
Once again, you are talking about near BiS or BiS types with one build. Ive seen some perfect vorpal wielding, multiple legendary, enchant 9,10's do some amazing stuff as well.
But you clearly misunderstand the issue, that curve to usefulness is very high on a GWF and you have to be vastly overgeared to get to that point. An average 18k GWF, with 7-8 k power and destroyer spec is pretty worthless in both pve and pvp. It has no survive skills, has medicore CC now and does less damage then other classes in the same gear range (not score, since its inflated on a GWF, so really more like a 18k gwf is like a 16-17ish k most other classes)
These average GWFs have almost no function in or out of pvp.
Again, I just rotate things around, I play all the classes, Im focusing on the CW/DC right now due to the nerfs. The simply overnered the destroyer tree and even with 40k hitpoints a simple cult pack in elol can destroy a average gwf now in a second. Thats pretty poor design for a class/build that has to get class to attack.
You better check out the 8 votes for TR...
I play a Master of Flame and I agree in most of them except 2:
Control Wizard: PVE -> 6 (Overpower) //// PVP -> 3
Trickster Rogue : PVE -> 4 //// PVP -> 7 (Game breaking)
As I sayed my main is a MoF and even without an optmized build in PvE I feel unstopabble, if I get the optimal gear and if I retcon I bet I ll get bored of PvE because of lack of challenge.
In the other side in PvP I suck no matter what I try. I have never felt so weak in PvP in another game, but imo CW should be a 4 in PvP, Control means the class is optimized against AoD, stuns, holds, etc and not in single target dps which is the best option for an offensive class in PvP, so I would never expect a 5 for a CW.
In the other hand as a controller i feel i fail a lot in both PvP and PvE, all my feats and stats are focused in control, but it looks like as control i do not help too much to the party as i do as dps, and even in PvP my control is weaker than the GF and TR stuns. In my opinion our dps my be nerfed and our crowd control increased or at least remove the "Control" and call us just Wizards.
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
Can you post you MOF, i'm curious, MOF actual default is he is based on debuf and since CW have low base damage. MOF are the joke part for solo. MOF/ renegade main point is a party buffer ( a good one) but lack of damage by itself. So i do not see where it's overpowered (especially since the buff canno't stack with multiple MOF). it'S good but not overpwered. If party not suffisant you won't be able to get it with your own should and in most case you won't give more than what an other same geared class would give.
Actual MOF mainly get the old DC debuf function with maybe little more survivability, a 5 is ok ( and personnaly i would give 4 to mof and 5 to stormspell), but overpowered isn't, it's lack of defensive mechanism to be called like that
How that? Gwf can heal? I have one and never noticed so far. Gwf can't steal aggro either. As for cc-ing, maybe one target at the time, and non-trash mobs will usually resist. Can pull to some extent, if Senti. But that's not much though, and that's still only one branch out of three.
Tired of Dailies/Tyranny of Dailies/Timers of Doom/Tricked Or Duped/Tremendously Obnoxious Dailies/Try Otherwise, Devs
This is why I say CW is OP in PvE, the game seems to be made for us.
I am not OP yet, what I mean is with my current build and gear (12k gs) I can play all content without much effort, when I get max gear and if I retcon my feats and stats into DPS I may be over anyother pure DPS class, thats bad because CW is not a pure DPS by definition.
With my current build I tryed to focus on Control and defuff, but I failed for that, it is working better as area DPS with a bit of control.
The next image is my main build with I modify against Dragons and PvP:
Class features: "Combustive Action" and "Swath of Destruction" (sometimes I replace the latter with "Evocation")
Hey man, suggest you should read my guide. There's a few ways your feats could be improved.
The old content was designed so that 12k GS was really good to take it on. We have outgeared it now. my CW is 19.3k (without stat point stacking), and most of the game isn't hard for me,
but then understand i have over a year of experience, a perfectly tuned spec, and BIS gear up and down - hence it SHOULD be easy for me.
It was 2013 when I was 12k, a long time ago. I don't remember content at that level very well, TBH. I remember when it was like 9-10k, and back then the game was appreciably challenging.
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
HAMSTER like that can only lead to more hate in an already declining game
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
One of the same 8 trolls who voted for the TR?
IMO, should ask- least desired class in party (last picked.) I don't know that one class could be the last in both pve and pvp. But if you gave a scale 10 evaluation for each, you could maybe make a choice.. and if a trend were present, maybe something could get fixed. Or at least we could have a nice time pretending that it will.
I personally think GWF is in the worst position right now because his mechanics require him to jump right in the middle of everything, but he can puff up defense and strike with wet noodle, or he can puff up offense and party to an early demise. My GWFs do fine soloing.. but when you get in amongst the silly things that people do.. A bit lackluster.
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
my experince too. I run like 35k HP and close to 3k def (which i would drop if my GWF was a higher priority) and I don't die easily, but my damage is very very meh.
When i see the "Dps GWF" i look at them and i say... "my CW has more def, more HP, and does more damage than you." Those builds are equally silly.
That's why it requires massive gear to be effective as a GWF. they need some boost.
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
You all think it is nice with DC in PvP when it can heal/buff you I see? Ok here is my stake on playing DC in PvP one vs one we are maybe 2! In PvE we are if really hard content 5 and the dps has been improved so maybe 4 with less hard content.
In huge PvP fights example Gauntlgrym PvP mass fights yes then Cleric is better maybe 3-4.
Finally I don't get why Warlock are 1 in PvP, but my Warlock is only level 52 so I have hard to judge that, but so far it is not bad.
I play DC in PvE and played against them in PvP. This is not about you, but the class in general. Obviously not every build is viable for PvP or PvE. A friend of mine tried to PvP with his dmg DC and mediocre gear, he got crushed. Now, take a faithfull speced DC for PvP. I have personaly dealt 60k+ dmg to a 16k DC with my 21k+ GWF in a perfect rotation (all crits including daily) and he went back to full HP, while flying in the air from my daily. Until faithful, astral shield and sunburst get fixed, they OP in PvP. If you think, that your goal in PvP is to kill the enemy players, you might opt for 2/5. If you play to win, by capturing, holding and defending nodes, my ranking is 5/5.
Now PvE, here the dmg DC shines he can buff the party dps up to 100%, while dealing more dmg himself, than many of the other classes. Concidering group utility and not just personal dps, DC gets a 5/5 here as well.
You would have to use different specs to shine in PvE and PvP, but that goes for every other class I played until now.
Second of all I do know that most DC still use sunburst, but I never ever use sunburst even in PvP lol sunburst is OLD and gone from good spells to use. Well I do not say what I use, but sunburst never have to be fixed and I not care about sunburst.
I even met with my Rogue a very bad DC that lol used sunburst in The Shores of Turen Epic Skirmish. I am polite when I play so I did not say nothing even if that DC sucked, but I would have wanted to say learn to play a DC. Great healing from that DC in the Epic Skirmish? Really not that DC was not good with healing or dps either.
DC is very good in PvE if you know how to play a DC etc.
I meant like PvP duel 1 vs 1 when I fight my real life friend then my Rogue can easily win 100% against his Control Wizard. If I take a DC vs Control Wizard then then DC is dead if CW get control and usually that happen even if you have PvP armor etc.
PvP wise sure GWF is pretty balanced , PvE though I disagree . If your impressed with a 50k crit that only hits 5 targets you should try a CW sometime . I lead with chilling cloud which almost always procs eye of the storm , for the next 6 seconds everything crits , COi (ticks how many times?) , icy terrain , storm spell ( stacks 6 chills) , and steal time . I'm not critting 5 targets Im critting EVERY target on top of the storm spell damage which is as bad as the old deep gash bug .By the time I finished that 4 encounter Im ready to start the next one while the gwf is waiting for a cooldown doing weak at will damage even in unstoppable . Your GWF damage may be good if your fighting with 4 GF's or are running with low end pugs but if your in a group with the same gs and skill level the gwf is 4th place damage if he's lucky . The worse thing about gwf right now in my opinion is everyone else is pulling so much aggro with damage ads pretty much ignore a gwf , if your not using CaGi your chasing ads . GWF by design was meant to be an aoe dps class but it's far from that now and when you que gwf is pulled for dps , when they show up in the party they are booted for a real dps class . TR , DC , CW , SW take your pick , any of the 4 do more damage .
GWF gets my vote as worse class right now hands down . I'm not here to bash GWF players , Im trying to get them a little love from the devs , They are in bad need of it .