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So where do the Devs want GWFs to be right now?
geeq5
Member Posts: 223 Arc User
I hope they have somethings going on for Great weapon fighters somewhere because right now they are the least desired class in PVE, in a few weeks it will be just like it was pre mod 2.
I personally believe the thing holding the class back is the tanky mechanics they are trying to force on the class, the class is suppose to be an AOE damage dealer, hence the Great weapons.
I personally believe the thing holding the class back is the tanky mechanics they are trying to force on the class, the class is suppose to be an AOE damage dealer, hence the Great weapons.
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No. GWF description: "The Great Weapon Fighter is an unstoppable force of damage and steel, skilled in using the weight of a greatsword to dispatch those that stand in the way. The epitome of strength, the Great Weapon Fighter is also resilient enough to defend allies in need."
Thus, he should be both defender and striker. Destroyer's focus being on damage dealing, Sentinel's on defending, Instigator's somewhere in between. Something along the lines:
On the Moon?
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
But frankly im used to be low on paingiver, so this senti does 10x more dps as my GF, maybe thats why im so forgiving
Steel and Magic
but dont tell me "taunt"
"lfg gwf to taunt"
In the drawer, where dust bunnies belong.
Agreed . GWF is broken . Yesterday I left a dungeon where the 15k DC and 13k CW beat out my 18.6 GWF in damage .(the DC topped the chart ).It's not that I care most about placing top on the paingiver chart but If Im playing an aoe dps class I dont expect to be out damaged by the healer . I immediately started back on a CW I abandoned about 6 months ago , I will harvest the gwf's enchants and put it on the shelf until something is done . Sure SW and DC do the most damage but I like the CC CW's bring to the group with singularity , also CW has stood the test of time and never really suffered a nerfing on the level a GWF has . Only new players will be impressed by the GWF's big fancy sword , veteran players are abandoning the class in troves . Until they start selling "Great Weapon Fighter Booster Packs" on the zen market I think the class will be kept in the dirt . I won't spend a **** chip on this CW , when they bring the gwf back to where it should be I might but until then its the CW until I find a better game .
damage/survaviblity/cc/utility
there is no reason for GWF class to even exist it has nothing and bring nothing.
I pity you, having these issues since Mod5... now this is what happened to GF tanks since mod1...
pls stop crying
Funny how you compare a main tank with a damage dealer. Just go back to where you came from.
And that only proves the point. That in order for a gwf to get anywhere close to other classes is to get 12k+ power, 15k preferably. Whereas ppl with an average GS can bite the dust.
That is true, GWFs need to be bis to compete with average gear scores.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Only compared to your previous build.
And even with this new build you'll finish last in esot or any dungeon or skirmish btw, unless the other classes in the group pity the fool and refrain from hitting any foe and protect you with their buffs/debuffs. If they play normally, your paingiver will be 20% of the other dps classes with 5k less then you, plus you'll die during each fight. At the final boss of esot you'll die only once, because then you'll be kicked.
Tired of Dailies/Tyranny of Dailies/Timers of Doom/Tricked Or Duped/Tremendously Obnoxious Dailies/Try Otherwise, Devs
The GWF is now in the same area as the HR is for PvE content in that you are good at several things but the master of none. The CW will out control you, the SW will out damage you, the DC will out heal you, and the GF will out tank you. This is exactly how it is supposed to be. The place where the GWF belongs is in the number two spot on damage and tankiness in a rainbow party yet GWF players are expecting to be on top of categories that other classes do better because they sacrifice more for it (in theory).
The one thing holding GWF back from being viable once again is the fact that the CW, despite the recent "nerf" and "balance" changes is still a better AoE damager. Until the devs finally realize that they could cut the current CW's damage in half across the board and they would still be viable for PvE, the GWF will be a victim of the CW's OPness.
Gloom level 60 Control Wizard
Dusk level 60 Trickster Rogue
Dawn level 60 Devoted Cleric
Eclipse level 60 Hunter Ranger
Wrath level 60 Great Weapon Fighter
Jinx level 60 Scourge Warlock
and destroyers receive nerfs for the purpose of "separate dps and tank", so... i want a chance to beat sw in same gear.
This is accurate. By definition, a GWF is a hybrid - GF tank better, CW control better, SW/TR damage better, DC support better.
HR is in a similar space, they are HYBRIDS.
The thing is this means that in ANY dimension, both classes are lackluster in comparison.
No of course if they boost GWF damage to a damage dealer, then they like CW/SW/TR with survivability so that's too much.
So i understand what the class is, but the issue is that ultimately what the GWF is is "hit things with big sword".
I think the gameplay is simple, fun, and liberating, honestly. and IMO a good GWF has always been great in PvP too. I just wish there was a valid build other than BIS everything and obscene power.
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
As most people have already suggested, we would have imagined it to be a tanky yet reasonably high dps character. I know I did. This one. This is what I believed. And that SM would be offense while IV would be more Tank.
And yet, right now the only one claiming to be doing great as DPS (and yet, I find it difficult to believe, so feel free to post videos and stats/builds of your entire group) is a Sentinel Was the CW a Renegade or Oppressor? Besides eLoL is just new content where they decided that single target damage classes should also get to have a little fun in PvE.
My whole problem is this Paingiver. People go overboard and read too much into this one stat, and the only way to circumvent this issue is to add some sort of MvP stat which would reflect an individual's overall contribution to a group.
Besides, not everyone here wants the GWF to top pain-giver. But at least let GWFs remain relevant, and not lagging behind all classes by so much, as they are right now. I mean, I am happy for clerics, but the amount of dps disparity is just insane, when you use current state GWFs as a reference point.
any gameplay - included your - demonstrates this. increase the damage of gwf an maybe, iam not sure, put the gwf the same standard of cw again, and not above. (damage is aways good and the dose between life steal and damage taken will be more balanced)
On the other hand, currently, reduce the cw damage is irrelevant. the devs failed when, while "contrast" the dps of a "pure" dps (sw / rogue) without first cutting the damage cw without major "tradeoffs".
repeating again: gwf is not a objective threat. all that is just projective <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
The last section is key. Paingiver is a highly flawed mechanic. What matters is effectiveness, which is not measure by paingiver. Because buffs and debuffs aren't calcuated, it's not even an accurate DPS contribution stat. I suggest ignoring it.
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
resume: the class "is not" where the dev want because the dev simply do not have any solid plan for the class. never had. but we (barracks) have or can discuss one...
The DC will out heal you , out damage you , and out tank you . The CW will out take more damage than you from aggro , out damage you , out CC you , out debuff you and out heal you. The GF will out tank you , will out aggro out mark you . So you think this is exactly how it's suppose to be ? You are saying the healer should out perform a frontline fighter in every way ? Please explain exactly what you believe a GWF's role to be ?
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While I would agree, currently there are no weapons in the GWF's arsenal to be effective. No, not contradicting myself, just saying that GWF has nothing at the moment that cannot be performed (in most cases better than GWF) by other classes. In my opinion, a GWF should have an equivalent shot at Paingiver as CW, SW, TR and HR. They should be able to finish close on Paingiver (compared to equally geared and skilled CW, SW, HR and TR), as well as damage taken with GFs.
Even where I am suggesting a new MvP type stat, currently no class has the opportunity to spread buffs/debuffs as effectively as a CW (DC perhaps) to be able to top even that stat by a huge margin. Balance, in the case of GWFs, is non-existent/abysmal; if this is where the Devs envisioned GWFs to be with respect to other classes, then that vision itself may be flawed or biased. Hoping to hear from the Devs again, on their opinion about Class balance, after two successive Mods in which this issue was tackled.
I'll take good care of your acc bro
:rolleyes:
Aside from a GF the GWF is the only pure melee in the game. Dumbest thing that they should wait last to attack like a bunch of cowards and toss some support. With all these 2 hit wonders from eSoT and Tiamat the GWF can't do much about avoiding massive damage now.
You're own post supports what I wrote previously. The GWF is not the best at anything but is good a several. This stance is not subject to question.
What you are probably getting at, and which I actually agree with is questioning to what degree they should capable of as secondary roles. In this I also stated that they did take a hit and could use some attention, however not to the degree that Mod 2 did. That was simply overboard (like the TR in this mod). This is all only relevant to the current direction the devs seem to go.
As for my own personal view, I have stated a long time ago that I thought the GWF was the most poorly implemented of the classes and that it's role should be better defined. If it were up to me I would redo the class entirely to focus it on high damage and burst tanking ability like the D&D barbarian has. I would make the GWF the highest AoE damager in the game but I would alter it's tanking and stats to be more upfront HP oriented rather than defense and deflect oriented like it is now. Give GWF the highest attainable HP in game, increase it's damage dramatically, reduce its defense and deflection and the class will naturally steer towards burst tanking and burning adds without stealing the GF's thunder for boss tanking.
More HP is more synergistic with handling larger totals of weaker striking adds without reducing the challenge too much by making them basically invincible during unstoppable. While at the same time it somewhat lessens its effectiveness against bosses because they tend to hit so hard HP doesn't matter (thus the GF still remains the best "tank")
As for Unstoppable I would change it so it reduces deflection while active but grants more HP and boosts Power by 15% while active. You hit way harder and are tougher to kill through staying power but your defenses suffer somewhat for "raging". You could then alter the paragon paths around utility to Unstoppable. Say Destroyer gets an extra 5% power and gets a fear aura while raging which lowers enemy defense by a certain amount. Sentinel gets increased temp HP and suffers no deflection loss while raging. Instigator marks all targets and reduces their movement speed or things along that line.
This just a brief summary of what I would do with the GWF. Best AoE damage in game. Highest HP total possible. Lowered defenses and turn Unstoppable into a more useful burst tank/DPS utility.
Gloom level 60 Control Wizard
Dusk level 60 Trickster Rogue
Dawn level 60 Devoted Cleric
Eclipse level 60 Hunter Ranger
Wrath level 60 Great Weapon Fighter
Jinx level 60 Scourge Warlock