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HV advice
tousseau
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,397 Arc User
I finaly completed my HV set... *squees like a giddy school girl* ...
Now what I'm looking for is some advice on applying an maintaining HV debuffs. From what I have been able to garner is powers such Steal Time and Oppressive Force seem to be king in this area (could be wrong in this). My main beef with these abilities is their relative casting times and I also tend to try and engage at range if possible.
What are some good options for applying the debuff at range (I am one who does make use of Icey Terrain on tab).
Now what I'm looking for is some advice on applying an maintaining HV debuffs. From what I have been able to garner is powers such Steal Time and Oppressive Force seem to be king in this area (could be wrong in this). My main beef with these abilities is their relative casting times and I also tend to try and engage at range if possible.
What are some good options for applying the debuff at range (I am one who does make use of Icey Terrain on tab).
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LOL Kidding. Grats!
The rotation I use as a Spellstorm is as follows (If you're a Master of Flame your rotation will be different):
Start a rotation with Steal time. The little trash enemies will get killed by Storm Spell procs and the enemies left alive will have a 30% debuff. Then whack them with Icy Terrain, Sudden Storm, and Conduit of Ice in quick succession before the debuff wears off. All three of those will serve to wreck most enemies in the area. If you have a daily ready throw out Oppressive Force between Steal Time and Icy Terrain. That way Oppressive Force hits 30% harder. Not much will be left alive after that.
For Boss fights I use Icy Rays on tab, Ray of Enfeeblement, Chill Strike, and Conduit of Ice. That won't have a constant 3 stacks, but it should have some debuff up most of the time. If I'm feeling frisky and have a good tank in the group I'll swap Steal Time in for Conduit of Ice then do the following: repeatedly cast Steal of Time, then dodge/cancel the cast before it hits for damage. Then it will go on a reduced cooldown of only 4 seconds. Then I can cast it and dodge/cancel it again. Just that easy we have a permanent 30% debuff on the boss. The only problem is if you try to do that on a boss like Epic Shores of Tuern you'll run out of stamina and take a hand-full of knives to the face and die.
So speaking purely from range, either Chill Strike, Entangling Force or Icy Terrain in Spell Mastery would seem to be your best bet. (And no I don't consider Repel to be a legitimate option)
But don't discount Steal Time. It is an amazing encounter. Yes you are rooted in place for a while. But get your HP and Defense high enough, you will have enough time to cast it without being in any danger. It procs HV as well as Assailant and Warped Magics.
I still roll EF on tab to group em up then SS they HAMSTER$ with some steal time and icy for good measure.
I suggest u get used to fighting abit closer range and cc and dodge.
Am gonna be using abadons ST cancel sploit now too though
Shoot a mob with a chill cloud, and while they come at you use the steal time. Quickly cast CoI, icy terrain, sudden storm and/or oppressive force if you have enough time. Seeing that in MOD5 EotS is at 4 sec max, you'll have to workout what works better for you.
For CN and dungeons with alot of adds:
1.
CoI on TABB - Stealtime, icyterrain and shard/sudden storm (Shard for more control also adds HV debuffs)
2. Chill strike on TABB - Stealtime, icyterrain and shard/sudden storm/CoI
In new dungeons/skirmish with less adds I would use more single target powers, but Im full legendary and 10s so not sure how it works with lower gear.
Chill strike TABB - RoE - Icy rays - Icyterrain
Always use Oppressive Force and Ice knife on single target. And use Storm spell and EotS with Ray of frost at-will. Maybe Chilling Cloud in dungeons with many adds.
What do you have on tab? COI? Steal Time?
Thanks,
Drew (Big Dam Heroes)
I have CoI on tab, typically. The description doesn't say it but when tabbed CoI will do 7 ticks of damage and each tick does approximately 4% more damage than the previous. When not on tab CoI hits 6 times and they're all the same.
That's probably because of the chill stacks it adds per tick.
Get a decent amount of hitpoints, defense and lifesteal, and get used to taking some hits -- you'll heal it right back up with your hard-hitting powers.
Hi @abaddon523
It's 5% increase in damage for each stack of chill, Tabbed or not.
I don't know if the tool-tips description has changed (Server is down for maintenance, I cannot check), but here is a part of my old description on a print-screen taken in Module 0 :(The Print-screen is in French is why I have not posted it)
"Damage is increased by 5% for every stack of Chill, and those effects are constantly refreshed."
I think you can reproduce the increase in damage if you cast Conduit of Ice (Not tabbed) just after Icy Terrain.
Anyway it's more effective in tab because the damage of Conduit of Ice will increase faster if the chill stack increase at the double rate (CoI+IT).
And by the way, thank you for all your testing that helped me a lot
Gildriador
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Two Towers
That's interesting. I hadn't connected that it is because of chill stacks. I had just assumed that the only time chill stacks would increase damage is when feats and powers like Blighting Power, Bitter Cold, and Chilling Presence were involved. Interesting that even without those there is still a bonus. Thanks for the info.
Personally, I don't have some set rotation, i think it's important to cast the most important spell for the situation. Should I open with COI or Shard? am i kiting away from one group and into another? what's the situation going on? where are my teammates? Is my daily up? Did i just pop my artifact? how is my survivability in this situation? What kind of mobs are they? what position are they in?
It is my personal advice to just simply cast the spell that is best for the situation you are in. Since these situations are complex, there is no clear order that is necessary. It is also very dependent on playstyle, dungeon, group dynamics, etc...
If something is somehow unfortunate enough to survive your rotation, they will likely get 3HV stacks anyway. If they didn't survive that rotation, well, they are dead anyway.
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
Chill strike aoe is extremely small on tab
Sudden storm is bugged with EoTS while on tab
Icy terrain doesn't increase dmg, just a small convenience
steal time makes you move too fast to be able to control your character with precision
ray of enfeeblement is a very small dps increase, barely better than regular
icy ray is actually fine but we don't really use it in pve
Honestly, I wouldn't be against a revamp of mastery effects on many spells.
I wish we could have metamagic feats, (maybe attached to the 3 paths or just in feats) or class features.
Empower spell, Enlarge spell, Quicken spell for example, that works with the spell on the spell mastery slot. this would give hundreds of choices to players to adapt his build to situations, pvp, bosses, builds etc.
This are some examples we could get:
Fast cast shard (Quickened)
Bigger area Icy terrain (enlarged)
more dmg Chill strike (Empowered)
Ofcourse all the spells should be revised, dmg adjusted, etc. And empowered could be the most used, but giving options and playstiles is good, and lots of builds should appear. The best way to implement this is with class features, allowing CWs to pick 1 metamagic feature, and 1 normal feature, removing things like evocation (redundant with empowered) and other useless features.
Just an idea
Caturday Survivor
Elemental Evil Survivor
Undermontain Survivor
Mod20 Combat rework Survivor
Mod22 Refinement rework Survivor
Some tactic advice from a SS CW perspective, I dislike the Shard so much now given the fact that the Icy Terrain keeps them in check for additional damage/chill stack and the adequate means to find that specific angle and cast the Sudden Storm for yet another five chill stacks (oppressor's feat).
Given how little control Thaumaturge has, shard is really very bad option for anyone. GWF in a team can't really collect them with "Come and Get it", and the Oppressive Force which does shatter them a bit, but not to the extent of shattering them all around (similar to the effect of Ice Storm).
While it might be a good method of controlling, additionally debuffing and also refilling the AP it's very unfriendly party-wise with GWF's, SW's and SS CW's. You want them kept together and not spread out where they potentially might inflict a lot of damage or similar.
Likewise, the Daily of a MoF CW is the best controlling method which exists CW-wise. Instead of CoI on Tab, I'd suggest Entangling Force which can insta-build arcane stacks and also add additional control of the heavy-weight mobs. CoI should replace Shard in most cases.
During my MoF play, I saw no reason to go a full DPS build which is why I chose to be an Oppressor MoF and to really give a nice purpose to the party. Not that Damage's lacking, far from it. So why not an Oppressor MoF?
Oh, sure man I see what you are saying. It's my current theory that oppressors aren't great in PvE, because instead of going oppressor tree you can just buy the mage and wisp from zen store and get plenty of control bonus from that.
As for me personally, i switched from entangling back when they nerfed the AP gain on it (I think that was halfway through mod 1).
My biggest problem with that spell is the target limit of 5 is simply far too low for my playstyle. Now if it was say 10 or 15, it would be great, but it's not.
That said I have seen many CWs use entangling effectively in the new content where pulls are smaller.
I don't think your suggestion is an invalid choice, but it's not my personal style. In the old content when you are fighting 20 mobs, it's my opinion it's not doing enough and something like conduit on tab (chill stacks, damage, refresh smolder, etc) does more.
It all depends on the situation of course.
I see the problem with shard knocking things around and I know many players hate that - which i understand. However it is also about where, when and how you use it. If you are fighting tons of mobs, then it's a great option because of the high target cap. You can even shard and then gather with FI, for example. Also if you are in a confined space (like castle never) you can use doorways or corners to minimize the spashback and not spread the mobs out too much.
I like to open heavy-archer encounters with shard to prone them so I can dart in and use IT/ST to kill them - assuming there is not a tank in the group. This is because only the archers are really a significant danger to me. Think the encounter after the traps in the shadow fell. Otherwise it's best against say, 10+ mobs.
What are your feats and thoughts on oppressor? I'd like to hear them.
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
There's nothing much to choose from, really. It might be interesting to check/test MoF in PvP with such a setup post MOD5. It's really effective with the feat which makes a cooldown for Entangling force.
Since my primary build style is to help new players gear-up, I'm keeping them away from potential threats since I can make some very fast calls and adequately be the link which separates the pro players who'll do damage from the new players who're learning how to play while also calling some tactical choices and in T2 it's a great asset.
I've yet to see it in action in CN, but I want to keep the red Wizards at bay.
The oppressor build I chose because I know my guildies and I know their playstyle, which is why they'd choose the first renegade skill for AP gain and forget all about investing in the Oppressor tree.
So to say, MoF Oppressor is my pleasure-play. Feat-wise it's Bitter Cold, Twisting Immolation, Cold Infusion, Alacrity and Controlled momentum with, also, Renegade feat Critical Power for the extra little bit of AP gain. I might even end up with Draconic Gear-set to even give players around me some extra CD. I also want to check/test all of the Greater [color] dragon's glyphs on such a MoF.
Some serious support right there.
What i found with draconic gear is that the stats are so different from the other i'd have to get new jewelry and enchantments in order to make it work.
You have to play what you love and what suits your play style, first and foremost. If you don't do that you will under achieve
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
You can. Either Draconic or Black Ice are nice sets. If you're looking for a more versatile PvP/PvE set, you can't go wrong with Black Ice.
Yes, as far as it's useful for damage, it's a major letdown defense-wise up to the point where I even wonder does the defense work at all.
What you do is you use jewelry and enchants to compensate for HV squishiness. This way you have an offensive armor set and defensive jewelry, resulting in a nicely balanced CW.
Now purified BI is much lower DPS, but you can use it in PvP or in PvE situations where you are doing something very very difficult. (Solo draco, edv, etc...)
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
It has lower stats than draconic / black ice gears, its bonus sucks since we got artifact equipments and has no glyphs.
Its bonus steals 450 defense from opponents (I assume you get 3 stacks soon), but only from control powers.
Stealing defense decreases their summary mitigation, so its like you had 450 armor pen (same result).
Stolen defense is really low at pvp as you don`t debuff many opponents and cant have all 3 stacks on them the most time.
In PvE, you usually dont need this defense. If you die anyway, you should consider why and its not because of too few defense.
Glyphs gives you insane bonus (its 16% output dps in my case).
Using draconic, ability to cast the spells 9% often for all the team looks much better than 450 Armor pen and a little defense bonus. Summary, it gives you more hp from life steal thanks to these additional strikes than you save from the stolen defense.
Using black ice, you get really nice stats buff (about 1k gs summary (avg)) and get much, much more defense in pvp from tenacity than from the stolen defense from HV.
Summary, glyphs plus the set bonuses are much better both for pvp and pve in T3 sets than in HV nowadays.
I made some calculatons some time ago and here is a spreadsheet compating HV, draconic and black ice (T3, corrupted, but puriefied has similiar stats): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1qZcm-8oLzSdJ2X7h5rHLeEM9WDSSW5HyLApRQazCzNI/edit?usp=sharing
Even devs looks like fotgot the T2 sets (like HV), not allowing to reinforce the T2 set gloves anymore by old way.
Its my opinion about the HV set. Its bonuses is just too weak in comparation to glyphs, additional stats and better bonuses from describbed sets. But again, its only my opinion. I see many CW still using HV sets and many using draconic / Black ice sets. It`s about 30%/30%/30% right now.