right now in preview perma is even easier

ragingwizard

Now with saboteur path we have 3 encounter refills, 4 if we have the MI aspect, and it still does ALOT of damage, not to mention shadowy opportunity makes bloodbath so **** deadly, I can currently one shot 50k HP players with bloodbath, and I've done a total of 90k on mobs with it bloodbath damage and shadowy opportunity included, for me, I think saboteur is king over exe right now, but honestly perm just got even worse if this doesn't change.

tabasq

Serve not know why they have changes that have been introduced on the server test.
Currently, TR can maintain invisibility virtually without hitting mobs for 24 / h to the
the Gloaming Cut does not remove the invisibility and it adds. These changes weaken again in PVE making TR
that the TAB is useless because at-will power (without Gloaming Cut) reduce the level of invisibility to 2-3 sec.
A further weakening of the PVE TR is to remove feats increasing power Duelist Flurry and Critical Teamwork.
This reduces the chance of criticism by 5% and the power of criticism by 15% (Tr under the invisibility is guaranteed criticism). Another weakness is
nerf impossible to Catch up to 50%. Of course I understand that TR is increased Dps, but what good is that if Tr under PVE
lose almost completely invisibility, a lot of criticism, and the ability with which increases its survival for PVE.
All these changes would be good if they enter them only on PVP because if you will be introduced also for PVE
instead strengthen the TR only weaken it. In exchange for slightly increased Dps, TR receives less criticism, lack of invisibility and a lower survival rate for PVE.
TR PVE play for over a year and I ask you do not do this to me .... it will destroy TR PVE

myowmyow

tabasq wrote: »

This reduces the chance of criticism by 5% and the power of criticism by 15% (Tr under the invisibility is guaranteed criticism). Another weakness is nerf impossible to Catch up to 50%. Of course I understand that TR is increased Dps, but what good is that if Tr under PVE lose almost completely invisibility, a lot of criticism, and the ability with which increases its survival for PVE.
All these changes would be good if they enter them only on PVP because if you will be introduced also for PVE instead strengthen the TR only weaken it. In exchange for slightly increased Dps, TR receives less criticism, lack of invisibility and a lower survival rate for PVE.

I, too, am concerned. I am tired of all this TR criticism!!!

Unknown

This content has been removed.

myowmyow

morenthar wrote: »

bwahahaha!!!

Seriously though, the TRs as currently constructed on preview will not go live. I'm just amped-up for the Scoundrel changes hitting this week.

I just wish I could reduce the power of criticism by 15%! Things would be less stressful . . .

Yeah, we will have to wait for the "final" version of the Mod 5 TR. I am getting excited because it HAS to be better than the current state.

crusherbeast

THis thread should land in lower depths as all other TR nerf threads.

r10999

I disagree. Perma is much more difficult in this mod as its overall the choice seems to be stealth or dps. Yes you can do some serious damage from stealth but at the cost of no more duelist flurry and being forced to use Gloaming Cut which means you can't attack from range. So now all your encounters aside from 2 drain stealth as well as your at-wills aside from 1. If you go Saboteur then once every 20s you can use an encounter for free without breaking stealth however that still has a 20s cooldown. So overall you have 2 occasionally 3 encounters that restore stealth, an at-will that is average dps at best (until their health drops to around 50%), and a daily if you use the passive Invisible Infiltrator.
Before these changes you could use two duelists flurry and shadowstrike right back into stealth and not be visible once. Plus if you had the dazzling blades feat shadow strike was the only stealth gain you needed because when stealth ended you used ITC and then shadow strike and back into stealth. So it gave you the option of customizing your 3rd encounter where PotB is nice because you use it and then continue with duelists flurry. Now you can't do that. For pvp especially perma has lost most of its damage as you can no longer throw the daggers without becoming vulnerable.
However it does seem to have increased its single target dps if you go executioner tree by quite the significant margin.
And with the middle tree granting extra lifesteal and deflect rogues have more options for survival too now. Before changes I ran with 11-12% lifesteal with endless consumption and usually never really ran into issues and when i did i used ITC with or without stealth and then my health would increase. Admittedly that is a lot harder to do now unfortunately.

todesfaelle

Doesn't seem like much people have tried playing as a Gloaming Cut TR. Been playing as one since beta, and I'm pretty sure other people can attest as to how challenging it can be to play PVP as a Gloaming Cut Stealth-based Rogue. One mistake usually means you're screwed, and this patch completely reinforces this risk even further as you can no longer attack from range via Cloud of Steel. It's either you get close to your opponent to maintain your stealth or you don't play as a Gloaming Cut TR at all.

A GC TR will be in melee range more often than not, and this in turn makes us prone to being CC-ed and quickly taken out of Stealth. So the challenge in playing as a GC TR is eluding your opponents in melee range, a challenge made harder in Mod 5 due to the loss of our ability to attack from range and with the introduction of the new Dodge Mechanic where we dodge 50% farther whenever we are in combat. We would usually dodge each time we strike using GC, but now dodging after landing a strike would mean we would be so far from the opponent that they would be completely out of Gloaming Cut's strike range, making it harder to land the next strike.

This is speaking strictly from a PVP point of view however. People should be more worried about the resurgence of one-shot executioners in PVP. Doesn't seem like many people remember the rivers upon rivers of tears they caused back in beta, and I'm plenty sure it'll happen again for this mod.

dersidius

todesfaelle wrote: »

Doesn't seem like much people have tried playing as a Gloaming Cut TR. Been playing as one since beta, and I'm pretty sure other people can attest as to how challenging it can be to play PVP as a Gloaming Cut Stealth-based Rogue. One mistake usually means you're screwed, and this patch completely reinforces this risk even further as you can no longer attack from range via Cloud of Steel. It's either you get close to your opponent to maintain your stealth or you don't play as a Gloaming Cut TR at all.

A GC TR will be in melee range more often than not, and this in turn makes us prone to being CC-ed and quickly taken out of Stealth. So the challenge in playing as a GC TR is eluding your opponents in melee range, a challenge made harder in Mod 5 due to the loss of our ability to attack from range and with the introduction of the new Dodge Mechanic where we dodge 50% farther whenever we are in combat. We would usually dodge each time we strike using GC, but now dodging after landing a strike would mean we would be so far from the opponent that they would be completely out of Gloaming Cut's strike range, making it harder to land the next strike.

This is speaking strictly from a PVP point of view however. People should be more worried about the resurgence of one-shot executioners in PVP. Doesn't seem like many people remember the rivers upon rivers of tears they caused back in beta, and I'm plenty sure it'll happen again for this mod.

I'd Completely Disagree with this

GC TR with the current stamina changes will be cake, and if you ever do get caught by the now no existant prones (Only 3 exist,Harrow Storm, Bullcharge and Boar Charge) you still have 45K HP, wont get 1 rotationed, and have time to SS ITC and try again...

However you could always be a smart player and bait the prones...

Not to mention any end level PVP tr is completely capable of not getting caught while using GC

it's pretty darn simple actually, use GC out of range, get benefit of lunge, barrel roll immediately afterwards

TR's will still exist in PvP (Should stealth not recieve any further nerfs) as a Back capper, which means majority of your battles are fought 1v1

With what is visible on the PTR, no class has a chance against TR atm 1v1 when talking about max to max gear

But I'm sure the dev's are going to nerf us further anyhow, and leave us with the Nonesense stealth nerf to boot

grac3n77

Mod 4 even though you are perma you are still screwd. I don't know what will happen now yes you may kill 1 opponent with the one shot wonder but thats it after you reveal your self just pray your opponent dont have soul forge or else you are screwed.

kweassa

grac3n77 wrote: »

Mod 4 even though you are perma you are still screwd. I don't know what will happen now yes you may kill 1 opponent with the one shot wonder but thats it after you reveal your self just pray your opponent dont have soul forge or else you are screwed.

If that's the best you can come up with despite so many changes and so many areas to experiment, practice, and develop... then yes, you are screwed.

As for the other, smarter TR players who are already experimenting and testing and finding new stuff everyday in the preview server, nope.

ikapamk

grac3n77 wrote: »

Mod 4 even though you are perma you are still screwd. I don't know what will happen now yes you may kill 1 opponent with the one shot wonder but thats it after you reveal your self just pray your opponent dont have soul forge or else you are screwed.

I'm no perma, but I was able to devise a, albeit clumsy, perma TR on preview. I specced for sab, equipped deft, ss, and a random 3rd (can't remember the passives), and used GC (yes, MI path).

deft in, stealth, gloam ad nauseam, ss to refill, stealth gloam ad nauseam, deft to new target, ss, stealth, gloam...

you get the idea.

It was simple, but effective. I rarely got hit and I could have soloed the entire icewind pass. So, no, perma isn't screwed in mod 5. she just has to think a tiny bit first.

kweassa

I've been observing how the Saboteuer tree plays out.

The conclusion, I find, is that there is a very distinct difference between the "old" permas and the "new" permas.

In preview, "perma" is indeed possible, but now you have to be really careful about making attacks, and that alone reduces the average number attacks made from stealth by quite a lot, when compared to "old" permas that would just endlessly deal damage enough to fill up AP every 2 minutes.

In compensation, each attack made from stealth is now that much more powerful, and some at-wills like GC don't deplete stealth. So from the receiving end, you get attacked a lot less, but if you are attacked then the damage is big... but in turn, GC attacks are melee, so much more difficult to land if you constantly move around... also, during the attack the TR comes into melee range, and hence, becomes visible.

So to sum it up, with the "new" perma, if you don't make any attacks (at least meaningful amount of attacks) then you can stay in perma easily, but ofcourse you won't kill anyone. If you do make attacks, then you risk your stealth blown off(encounters), or ending rapidly(at-wills). If you attack with GC (for MIs), then the attack rewards high damage, but in turn also offers a great risk.

So the "new" perma, is nothing like the "old" perma, at least, from the receiving end, it's a lot less threatening and frustrating. It is also a lot easier to maneuver around to avoid getting hit by GC -- I mean, trying to avoid GC, and trying to avoid something like CoS, is just no comparison.

However, the incoming damage is really strong, so essentially, if you make attacks from stealth, particularly with GC, then its essentially high risk-high reward. A skillful TR will usually manipulate his overall timing so he makes just the amount of attacks he really needs, but even so an opponent with keen reflexes (and especially with a tough class) can actually time in and retalitate just at the moment GC lands.

Ofcourse, the TR will be naturally be attempting the GC-dodge technique to reduce his chances of being caught... but still, compared to "old" permas the "new" permas are much more balanced overall.