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Storm Warden vs Pathfinder and assorted questions
I am currently playing an Archery Pathfinder and was wondering how an Archery Stormwarden would fare.
Quite frankly for a "support" class, I don't see a lot of support (Hunter's Teamwork) compared to Stormwardens, and while there is an Artifact Bow that supports rapid shot, there is no bow that supports Hunter's Teamwork which is my primary At-Will (other one is Split Shot), and my overall feeling is that the "support" aspect of the Pathfinder means very little in a group that has at least one other debuff class. Am I seeing that wrong? What is my role in a team? Maybe it's just me
Am I actually supposed to use Hunter's Teamwork? Isn't that THE pathfinder power?
Also, what's the stance on the Draconic Gear? Yay? Nay? Go for 2 Dread Legion and 2 Grand Warden? I don't have the spare time to farm for black ice to support a full set, so that's not an option for me.
I am currently running with 4-set Royal Guard. Stats-wise by replacing it with Draconic Gear I will gain about 1k Power and some recovery and lose some (800ish) armorpiercing - Nothing that can't be countered by using the appropriate jewlery and/or enchantments, if necessary. (At least that is my experience on my tanky-tank Guardian Fighter)
I play mostly PVE with the occassional Gauntlegrym, usually with my guild. My current gearscore is ~15000, 4600 Power, 2100 Critical, 2600 AP, 1100 Recovery, 800 Defense 1000 Deflect and 1400 Lifesteal. It's still a work in process. I am aware my AP is a tad high and my crit needs much improvement.
Questions questions questions...
Quite frankly for a "support" class, I don't see a lot of support (Hunter's Teamwork) compared to Stormwardens, and while there is an Artifact Bow that supports rapid shot, there is no bow that supports Hunter's Teamwork which is my primary At-Will (other one is Split Shot), and my overall feeling is that the "support" aspect of the Pathfinder means very little in a group that has at least one other debuff class. Am I seeing that wrong? What is my role in a team? Maybe it's just me
Am I actually supposed to use Hunter's Teamwork? Isn't that THE pathfinder power?
Also, what's the stance on the Draconic Gear? Yay? Nay? Go for 2 Dread Legion and 2 Grand Warden? I don't have the spare time to farm for black ice to support a full set, so that's not an option for me.
I am currently running with 4-set Royal Guard. Stats-wise by replacing it with Draconic Gear I will gain about 1k Power and some recovery and lose some (800ish) armorpiercing - Nothing that can't be countered by using the appropriate jewlery and/or enchantments, if necessary. (At least that is my experience on my tanky-tank Guardian Fighter)
I play mostly PVE with the occassional Gauntlegrym, usually with my guild. My current gearscore is ~15000, 4600 Power, 2100 Critical, 2600 AP, 1100 Recovery, 800 Defense 1000 Deflect and 1400 Lifesteal. It's still a work in process. I am aware my AP is a tad high and my crit needs much improvement.
Questions questions questions...
Post edited by ocano on
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I have switched to 4 pc BI which i find better, but it is a grind to get and needs some maitenance. I still use my 2draco/2 dl for daily grinding, farming with draconic enchants (just dont use reds on it)
Hunters teamwork was their main attraction and now there is no reason to use it. I never seen any reason to use the other pathfinder powers but maybe you'll like something there.
Gearwise, I prefer the corrupted BI but I think I'm in a minority here.
Drac. gear is great for combat HRs and some trappers, but the stats are almost useless for archers. Instead, go with GW, Illi, DL or a 2/2 of those. I appreciate wanting an overload slot, but, seeing as cryptic's loving on the combat path right now, I wouldn't hold out for something tailored to archers.
Sharra Del'Armgo - SW Trapper Hybrid HR
Ogghra Bar'Ghuzumn - MI Scoundrel TR
Vænna Thrymskjöldr - IV Protector GF
I dun see why artifact weapon would render PF archer obsolete in PVE. I mean not that u can only use 1 at-will at a time. If u going hunter teamwork means u r going support. Dont expect to beat a HR dps( whether its PF or SW) thats going with aim/rapid + split shot. Even without artifact weapon rapid still beat hunter teamwork dps by a slight ammount while aimshot beat them all in singel target dps. From what i have tested, 1 Aim shot = 8 rapid shot in damage and u can fire max 5-6 rapid in 3sec ( which is aim cast time) and 4 shot for hunter.
IMO PF isnt a full dps class like SW. It act like a semi support + secondary dps role. Thats why u dont feel much support provide by PF, Though it still deliver good DPS overall.
I don't know which bow most pvp HRs are running with but I suppose it's one of Dragon Tooth (Rapid) or Golden Smile (Aimed). So Combat PF HRs will be running with either Rapid/CA or Aimed/CA I reckon. Hunter's Teamwork would probably not get used too often - my PF Combat HR hasn't used it even once yet.
To me the Draconic set is the worst of the bunch. I have Corrupted Black Ice set but I don't use it due to the low ArP on it and mainly because the set is fugly and I don't have over 200k AD lying around to dedicate to transmuting it. I use the Royal Guard set but I am currently farming VT to complete the Dread Legion set - oh the **** chest piece still eludes me
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
Well if ur going for dps, i dun see the reason to use hunter for dps. Yes hunter does have careful to compensate in term of dmg and u said it urself, with artifact weapon rapid become more powerful and hunter hardly keep up the damage, so why not replace hunter with rapid and PF is still in the business. I dun see why PF is obsolete in PVE because of artifact weapon. Well except that PF cant use rapid, i would have agreed with u.
I run this set-up on my PF Combat HR although it's Careful Attack I use and not Hunter's Teamwork. I'm not ideally geared (mixture of R6s and 7s) but my single-target dps is still pretty good in SoT and LoL. Sometimes I wish I'd stayed SW coz I reckon my damage output will be far greater then
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
I think u miss my point there..i never say anything bout rapid + hunter build. I m actualy comparing hunter and rapid and my point is if u think rapid is stronger now with artifact weapon then replace ur hunter with rapid if u want DPS. I usualy go aim+ split for dps or Aim +hunter if iwanna go support. Anyway i just wanna say that i disagree with your statement on artifact weapon makes PF obsolete in PVE. Artifact weapon doest affect PF at all in PVE.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
My point exactly. Combat and trappers build do benefit from other bows and can leave out rapid shot, bun not archers.
mind pointing it out?
I m using dragon smile bow. I dunno why ppl are saying dragon tooth bow is the best. I have been using it for awhile. Yes it got nice stat and a little boost to rapid but i find my dps drop due to switching my aimed for rapid even with artifact boost. So i switch to smile. Though it doesnt boost aimed dmg but i did more number in paingiver chart than with rapid. In addition the mobility let u kite stuff in dungeon (eg. twin scorpion in eLoL) and survivability in dungeon. ( like eSoT). Its like extra fox cunning speed boost to run away from mob. Anyway, IMO all 3 bow is good and depend on own playstyle.
And i dun see how archer not benefit from artifact bow unlike combat and trapper. Mind to elaborate? Btw i m not even using rapid.
Yup. I'm a Pathfinder and often run Careful Attack + Rapid at SoT to trigger the Royal Guard boon often and spam Fox's Cunning.
Anyway the bonus from the artifact is very small for any Archer. How much of your DPS comes from Rapid? Rain of Arrows and Split make a better work on mobs so I really seldom use Rapid at-all, except on a few bosses and even there Rain + Thorn Ward + Careful Attack are 70% of the damage or more. My feeling is that there is no big difference between one weapon and the other. The main benefit is definitely the extra base damage and that you get from any bow.
Same for Trappers if the stay like on preview now. You refresh encounters so fast that you'll almost never use at-wills, with the possible exception of Careful Attack.
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
I use your same one with good results so far. And I fully agree that Aimed is vastly superior damage-wise to Rapid in almost all situations (the few exception being some bosses where you get interrupted all the time (Pyraphenia, Lostmauth, Hand of Magera).
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
They tried to be creative with the bonuses but only one bow gives you a direct damage bonus for archery, but all give damage bonus for melee. that's what I meant in the combat and trapper statement.
in the 4 seconds of 1 aimed shot charging u get 6 rapids.
using red dragon glyphs and tooth:
If none crit rapid actually does more damage.
If all crit vs an aimed crit, aimed does more damage (reds dont crit).
But then if u average it out it sort of comes out even dpswise but rapid tends to comeout ahead due to the aimed shot interrupts, which happen more than we would like.
Basically rapid = higher sustained and aimed = higher burst.
there is true single target fights like valindra and mc bosses where the best is actually to slot both aimed and rapid. u use rapid till u get one of the auto hits that happen every x seconds, and when it hits u use 1 aimed and go back to rapid till the next interrupt, rinse and repeat.
Ur going to be disapointed with DL set, stats are very nice but the set bonus sux. It has an icd so ur really like briefly inmobilizing mobs every 30 secs or so.
Yea..its all depend on own playstyle. Like u prefer rapid, u definately know how to play with it better than me. While with aimed shot i might be better than u. Same as artifact weapon, tooth will definately benefit u more than me while aimed will definately benefit more to me. So cant say PF is obsolete in PVE due to artifact weapon, In fact arhcer PF has always been inferior to archer SW with or without artifact weapon. It has alwaz been. PF has been more utility wise single target dpser while SW is more pure aoe dpser. Thats why they get top paingiver chart easier than PF.
Regarding combat and trapper gain more benefit than archer, depends on how u see it. Damage bonus - Yes..due to +30 base and % boost on melee skill. But archer did gain benefit from artifact weapon too like mobility for smile and life steal for the split shot bow which benefite our survivability. Not all benefit is measure by dps. For me, utility wise is equaly important. It let u survive and let u pull amazing feat in dungeon.
well..if u put red glyph in..i might agree with u..aimed doesnt stack up with red..anyway each has its own purpose in dungeon..so is artifact weapon.. Whereas to play aimed shot effectively, its all about timing and positioning..thats why we got secondary at-will to fill in tight situation
Also I don't think the 30 extra weapon damage you get from the artifact bows for Combat HRs puts you near to the weapon damage of the bow. It's silly that two blades do less damage than a bow in Cryptic's collective eyes.
The only 4p bonus worth chasing up IMO is the RG set. I don't care for any of the others even GW, although 2% extra damage is just that, 2% extra. What I really like about the DL set are the collective stats meaning I can focus more on Recovery and Defence instead of Crit and Lifesteal lacking on RG. With the extra Power and Crit the DL set provides, with enough Recovery I might even do better than my current set-up. I would even choose it over Black Ice as I would have to grab a lot of ArP which is sorely lacking on the Corrupted Black Ice set. Besides farming VT gives me something else to do to break the monotony of Totally over Dailies campaign.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
Definitely agree with this. I'm actually level up two Artifact weapons. I was wanting the Tooth Weapon before I tend to use Rapid attakc the most (Trapper HR). But I got the Tendril weapon to begin with (and 6 tried before getting the Tooth). After using Tendril ant level it's up to level 22 with Vendor trash. I began to appreciate the Stamina gain on Split Shot. I was able to solo the solo the medium HE in IWD there the melee NPC hit like mac trucks. I was able to keep using Split Shot and dodge almost constantly between my Throned Roots attack cool downs. Although I do admit I'm still partial to the Tooth for the stats mostly
I dont know why u think u have to grab that much arp with BI. U just need the 2 arp boons + tooth + dex belt. with 15 str.
I personally have wis belt, so ive had to use excorcist ammy on toon and stone, but its not a big deal at all.
stats are great with it... its just the ls which is a bit lacking but will sort it selfout with 4th boon or once i get belt to legndary, which ever comes first.
btw im just using R8s (all radiants in offense and all darks in defense)
Pardon my missinformation i mention here earlier..i made a close test and found that aimmed shot charging time is confirmed 3 sec. Max rapid in 3 sec is 4-5 shots while Max hunter in 3 sec is 3 shots.
I tested the Corrupted Black Ice set last night and this morning in the Shores of Tuern skirmish without empowering the gear and using 2 lesser Power overload enchants and it's...meh. I had to drop my 2 Pegasus Rings with R7 Radiants for 2 Rings of Suffering with R7 Darks for the ArP putting me at cap with 1800 rating and 16 Strength. I don't have the Twined Rope of Dexterity yet (grrrrrr) and I didn't select the ArP boon in ToD but I lost around 300 Power or more so I'd have to do more gear tweaking to balance my stats - Defence is 2900 !!!
Only once did I break the 2 million damage threshold on my skirmish runs and then I went over 3m but I notice how much longer my CDs take now without RG set. I know damage is difficult to gauge in skirmishes unless you run repeatedly with the same group but in my RG set-up I was constantly over 2.5 million damage in SoT. I'm not sold on the Black Ice set yet.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
yeah skirmish isnt best place to compare, but that damage is low for sure i always go over 3m without even trying not even using BI or even reds. Thing is if ur using plaguefire then yeah RG should be the set for you as ur squeezing more out of it that way. Vorpal on the other hand... with it u probably will do more damage using any set.
btw: are both ur sets equally upgraded with power reinforcement kits?
More like equally downgraded as I have yet to get the Power reinforcement kits for even my RG set.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.