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Forums > Home› Class Forums› The Thieves' Den

TR overhaul or overhole? disappointment after disappointment

k9madrushk9madrush Member Posts: 534 Bounty Hunter
edited October 2014 in The Thieves' Den
Official Feedback Thread: Other Balance Changes
Greetings Adventurers!
There were a lot of other small improvements we wanted to make to a variety of specs, but didn’t really merit their own thread because they are fairly small and focused. Please use this thread for giving feedback on those changes.
This thread is not for suggesting new feedback, so please constrain it to feedback on changes that are in the patch.


Great Weapon Fighter
Instigator: Allied Opportunity: Damage Bonus increased to 6/12/18/24/30% (up from 2/4/6/8/10%) and the Combat Advantage Duration is increased to 1.5/3/4.5/6/7.5 seconds (up from 1/1.5/2/2.5/3 seconds).
Instigator: Group Assault: Damage bonus increased to 2/4/6/8/10% for each additional target struck (up from 1/2/3/4/5%).
Instigator: Instigator's Vengeance: *Rework* Now grants 10% increased damage at all times. This value is increased by 10% each time you are struck in combat, up to a maximum total increase of 50%.


Control Wizard
Renegade: Chaos Magic: Fury - Now grants 30% damage and 10% Life Steal (up from 10% and 5% respectively).
Renegade: Chaos Magic: Nexus - Now grants 30% Armor Penetration and 30% Critical Chance (up from 10%).
Renegade: Chaos Magic: Growth - Now heals every .5 seconds for 250% of your weapon damage (up from 200% every second).
Renegade: Masterful Arcane Theft: Damage bonus increased to 3/6/9/12/15% on targets affected by Chill (up from 1/2/3/4/5%) and 1.2/2.4/3.6/4.8/6% per stack of Arcane Mastery (up from .6/1.2/1.8/2.4/3%).
Renegade: Chilling Advantage: Chilling Presence increases Critical Chance by 2/4/6/8/10% (up from 1/2/3/4/5%).


Hunter Ranger
Melee: Piercing Blade: This feat now correctly looks at post resistance damage when calculating how much damage it should deal.
Trapper: Swiftness of the Fox: *Rework* Your Melee encounter powers shorten the cooldown of your Ranged encounter powers by 3/6/9/12/15%. Your Ranged encounter powers shorten the cooldown of your Melee encounter powers by 3/6/9/12/15%.
Trapper: Biting Snares: Now generates 20% of your AP (up from 10%), increases your damage by 30% (up from 15%), and Control durations are increased by 60% (up from 30%).


Scourge Warlock
Tyrannical Threat: The damage from this power should now benefit from Armor Penetration correctly.
Creeping Death: Almost all powers that deal Necrotic Damage are now correctly identified as such, and should activate this feat much more reliably.


In comparison to what they are giving us TR..... *Sigh somebody tell me if there is equality in this game. Alms for TR anyone? Feels like we are getting crumbs of bread devs should rename TR to BR... Begging Rogues
Post edited by k9madrush on

Comments

  • reiwulfreiwulf Member Posts: 2,687 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Don't be so pessimistic, when the first changes to CW, GWF and GF were announced, they were pretty sad about them too, but thanks to good feedback and ideas they managed to get a much better result at the end.
    It's also our responsability to give our honest feedback to get the best possible TR we can get.
    2e2qwj6.jpg
  • rayrdanrayrdan Member Posts: 5,410 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    oh well 50 pages, 0 dev answers.
    he is not going to read that mess anymore
  • UnknownUnknown
    edited October 2014
    This content has been removed.
  • rayrdanrayrdan Member Posts: 5,410 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    just for starting it would be good to have low hitting encounter not putting me out of stealth (wicked reminder)
    a dodge more
    charisma fixed
    first strike reworked to give 10% deflect %10 stamina gain 5%more hp (+2.5% per level)
    stealth refilling upon taking damage

    boom something

    even the total absence of banelorne (cant remember the right name) is underwhelming
  • mojoratmojorat Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 90
    edited October 2014
    To the open isuggest taking a deep breath and a step back. Its also best not to present statistical data out of context as imperical ecidence of a conspiracy. I cant speak for the CW changes but the GWF instigator feat path is in sore needed of a rework. Its easy to tack work for that on because except for the Capstone all the coding involved is just moving bonuses around it involves no new mechanics.

    Also there's three things going on with the Tr changes you need to understand. Although some of this I am guessing. One) we have received a massive damage buff. There's some evidence not so much for executioner but a lot of powers have been ramped up. I suspect some diberately higher than intended but exceeding the goal and toning down provides a lot of statistical data.

    Two) the stealth rework is clashing with peoples expected playstyle. This creates a much more negative view and likely clouds aether its a good or bad decision. However it also exposes a class weakness. Again I suspect the initial power line up was deliberately designed to expose this. I myself didn't realize on live how much I used stealth as temporary defense when playing. Mainly pop in and out using it to trigger effects then didnt realize how often istepped back for a breather stealthed and healed with lifesteal.

    Anyhow the stealth change will be the cause of a lot of unnecessary vitriol.

    Third) op have you been on test? The playstyle of the new saboteur is awesome. However scoundrel not so much and executioner is forcing a playstyle change. There's also. Always going to be bugs.


    Anyhow there will be multiple rounds of changes there's no need to be upset unless it goes live with a bad decision. The only actual issue I have with how the development in this game plan things is known issues that don't prevent the game from working are. Let sit and worked on in chunks. Were at the start of a chunk.
  • k9madrushk9madrush Member Posts: 534 Bounty Hunter
    edited October 2014
    I do not know if you notice but each MOD they are crippling TR, ok they gave us back an old leg (burst LB) but they are taking away a finger later on they will remove the entire hand. What I'm trying to say is they should look at each class and then the entire game as a whole. We are so far behind if TR is not given the "proper attention" it deserves, I fear that not even our creativeness and intelligence will suffice to make this class worthy to be called a trickster or I should say the jokes on us. I know all of us here share the same love for this class.
  • angryspriteangrysprite Member Posts: 4,982 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    rayrdan wrote: »
    oh well 50 pages, 0 dev answers.
    he is not going to read that mess anymore

    Actually, only 7 pages. Never count pages - it depends on your post-count setting. The default is what, 10 Posts per page? I see 7 pages where you see 50. As for Dev response: they don't respond willy-nilly to threads like this. They respond to *official* feedback threads. You're better off looking there.
  • mojoratmojorat Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 90
    edited October 2014
    A. Few things I didn't start really playing until mod 3. As far as changes mod 3-4 goes we actually didn't change at all. There's also a lot of misconceptions that are further compounded by playerbehaviour on live. First) there's a lot of variation in tr damage playstyle encounters and who you play with. So in mod 3 with same gs people even if I was in 3rd place ACT showed I was #1 on the bosses.

    I want to stress mod 3-4 nothing over all changed for us. But mojorat you say the cw sw etc all beat me in dps. Your right so what changed? Well our competition got better. For one not only are br a better class now but for pve . Not only was their power upped but in some cases 2 of 3 feat paths are now working. This contrasts on live for tr where your feat path has drastic effects on dps.

    People need to remember Nwo is a business's there is no plot to keep the TR down because it isn't good for business. We've been kept down by poor decisions yes.. but that's not the same thing.
  • crusherbeastcrusherbeast Member Posts: 426 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    k9madrush wrote: »
    I do not know if you notice but each MOD they are crippling TR, ok they gave us back an old leg (burst LB) but they are taking away a finger later on they will remove the entire hand. What I'm trying to say is they should look at each class and then the entire game as a whole. We are so far behind if TR is not given the "proper attention" it deserves, I fear that not even our creativeness and intelligence will suffice to make this class worthy to be called a trickster or I should say the jokes on us. I know all of us here share the same love for this class.

    Exactly that. It's as they were making sure that in each mod we will be inferior to other classes. In mod 3 shocking execution so we won't kill HR and gwf with roar. In mod 4 bilethorn so we won't kill CW. And on the other hand they kept entire mod 3 with abusing GWF of roar. That shows clearly that there are classes equal and more equal.
    Tairev-TR(All kind of killing tools)
    Asha-DC(Faithful-Anointed Champion)
    Vilgefortz-CW(Thaumaturge-balance)
  • kweassakweassa Member Posts: 2,390 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    rayrdan wrote: »
    oh well 50 pages, 0 dev answers.
    he is not going to read that mess anymore

    No developer would directly give answers in a thread like that, rayr.

    If anything, the entire TR populace -- whether they support or shun the changes -- is riled up and emotionally sensitive in times of change like this, and any direct contact with the developers can lead to a lot of mis-interpretations, emotional clashes, and just plain disaster. I for one, would not want to see people arguing with the developers in the forums, the developers desperately trying to defend themselves and trying to explain their intent, while half of the people shut their ears and start throwing tomatoes and eggs. I've seen cases where some game developers were simply 'too close to the forums', and what happens when things are like that. It's an ugly sight where it leaves deep scars to both parties.

    What developers usually do, is simply monitor the threads for feedback and ideas, collect as many of them as they can, and start actual data mining within the game to see if what the people are claiming is true. And then after cooking up fixes and different attempts they give us another one.


    It's not like opening beta where people don't have previous experience or reference -- hence no bias at all. The developers can usually talk freely with the players without much problems. However, this is an attempted change to the current existing mechanics which people are already very familiar with and attached to. It's different. They need to keep their distance and they're right to do so.
    Stop making excuses. Be a man.
    If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
    Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
  • pandora1xpandora1x Member Posts: 725 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Still waiting for the day WK will be on par with MI.

    *Turns into a skeleton*
  • kweassakweassa Member Posts: 2,390 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    pandora1x wrote: »
    Still waiting for the day WK will be on par with MI.

    *Turns into a skeleton*

    In my case pandy, I'm excited like a boy on his first prom night.

    According to the updated tweaks posted by gc, if what he says works as it should then my original VP-dazing strike combo build should come back to life after being dead for such a long time, and in a new, better form...!
      Disheartening Strike from stealth → Concussive Strikes, target dazed, defensive action(dodge) disabled → VP(throw), guaranteed hit from previous Concussive Strike → Skullcracker daze (4s !!!!) from VP, target defensive action(dodge) disabled + movement speed boost → VP(teleport) → VP stun (1~2s) → new, faster Dazing Strike (much higher chance of landing!) → another 4s daze from Dazing Strike → at-will attacks, procs another Concussive Strike → SS and restealth

    I'm not sure if this new, resurrected version can compete with our new Exec DPS or new Sab finesse, but it sure as dang sound tempting.

    :D I'm a happy man.
    Stop making excuses. Be a man.
    If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
    Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
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