Guard Known as block is bugged

mfgamesys

Guard(Block as it is referred to) blocks 80% of incoming damage with the gfs own personal dr value affecting the remaining 20%. Since the last patch of October 2nd the secondary effect of block is non existent which is to say we are taking 2x on average(being around 90% as most have 50% dr) through block pve/pvp. This is in need of an urgent fix as this breaks pvp to a large extent as now once people read this they will just spam more damage on a gf blocking and he cannot do anything about it and die twice as fast.

FIX BLOCK ASAP

mfgamesys

This is still a problem and needs fixing asap I am surprised that other gfs are not seeing this but it would make sense since the reflect build was made mute upon this patch that gfs are not complaining about dying as fast in pvp. The only issue in pve would be Epic lair of Lostmauth and Epic Shores of Tuern where the golems now hit twice as hard through block which if it crits can be around 35k, game breaking for a new 13k gf.

schweifer1982

mfgamesys wrote: »

Guard(Block as it is referred to) blocks 80% of incoming damage with the gfs own personal dr value affecting the remaining 20%. Since the last patch of October 2nd the secondary effect of block is non existent which is to say we are taking 2x on average(being around 90% as most have 50% dr) through block pve/pvp. This is in need of an urgent fix as this breaks pvp to a large extent as now once people read this they will just spam more damage on a gf blocking and he cannot do anything about it and die twice as fast.

FIX BLOCK ASAP

Also if you are wondering I only needed to go to iwd and get hit by a bear for 2280 without block and then with for 440 with block to realize that my suspicion was correct.

What armor set do y use cuz i think i find out somthing.
But still collecting data.

mfgamesys

I am using corrupt black ice set always have and still will till mod 6 maybe.

schweifer1982

So In PVE you must know BI dmg ignores block.
The only resist you will got aganst BI dmg is your gear resist.

Also T1 buff sets are total bugged they buff mobs so you will get more dmg and def but in the mean time the mobs get this buff too .
They have lower def so the value of 60% is much more and they have more power so they value of +15% power is much more .
In the mean time GF DEF cap is 3000 so you will recive only a minor dr buff to you existing dr .

In pvp i have no idea i dont experienced this issue .
GWF hit on me 30k i got 1200 dmg .
You must know in pvp you will have 0 armor aganst a good pvp player GPF -45% def stat with 30% arp they will shred your dr to 0 .
0 dr * 20% tena = 0 dr . so you will only have 80% dr from shild

mfgamesys

these polar bears never do black ice damage. its just regular damage.Black ice damage is indicated with blue damage numbers, there were none when i was doing this quick test.

In pvp tenacity cannot be mitigated as far as i am aware as it is a permanent wall that is unmitigated no matter what.

So one I have no clue as a gf of what I'm doing build wise(21.4k gf, playing same toon since ob) and 12k hrs and sws with no weapon enchants rip through my block faster than normal is correct. Or I have a bugged character and its gg for me.

Also I have fought numerous times in pvp against top end players who can mitigate my armor but not my tenacity and now when I block I am getting shredded so fast since block is capped at 80%(bugged), does not respect tenacity(which means larger critical hits on me). I die so quickly its a joke almost.

mfgamesys

okay for the record now after doing some quick testing my block is *working again* i do not know how but for some reason its working again. But for the past 2 weeks my block was not WAI so something was done server side to address this. I will necro this thread in the future if this becomes a problem again

schweifer1982

mfgamesys wrote: »

these polar bears never do black ice damage. its just regular damage.Black ice damage is indicated with blue damage numbers, there were none when i was doing this quick test.

In pvp tenacity cannot be mitigated as far as i am aware as it is a permanent wall that is unmitigated no matter what.

So one I have no clue as a gf of what I'm doing build wise(21.4k gf, playing same toon since ob) and 12k hrs and sws with no weapon enchants rip through my block faster than normal is correct. Or I have a bugged character and its gg for me.

Also I have fought numerous times in pvp against top end players who can mitigate my armor but not my tenacity and now when I block I am getting shredded so fast since block is capped at 80%(bugged), does not respect tenacity(which means larger critical hits on me). I die so quickly its a joke almost.

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Jan 2013
Quote Originally Posted by ayroux View Post
Thanks for the details. Youve probably thought about this, but this potentially makes it even MORE powerful since it seems like ARP wont be able to negate it... So you suggested base DR plays a big roll, but actually most classes in PVP run MORE than 25% ARP, so CWs BASE DR doesnt come unto play being that its fully negated, and now ontop of that, this CW shield cant be mitigated by DR? Since your calculations im guessing only work in another level of DR like Tenacity? Maybe I am wrong but dont see how ARP can negate part of the shield if its on another level like this...

Like you posted above 1000 damage comes in, assume 25% base DR & on Mastery (broken = 50%) slot but attack is dealt with a 33% ARP (alot of GWFs/GFs have this or more) ARP.

I assume it works like this then...

1000 comes in, 25% DR is mitigated by 33% ARP to 0% DR (doesnt go negative). So THEN shield steps up and mitigates (broken) 50% of the damage on its own level, and THEN tenacity after that.

So now its at 500 (50% of 1000). Then tenacity kicks in? So another -100 (@ 20%) down to 400 damage....

So total it still was a 60% DR boost to the CW (with tenacity). Lets compare to a fighter. My GF has about 50% DR. BUT! Alot of that is mitigated via ARP.

So 1000 comes in, lets say attacker only has 25% ARP versus my 50% DR. Now my GF takes 750 damage. net 20% tenacity = 600 damage....

So on 1000 damage the CW took 400 and GF took 600.... Unless I am understanding this right...?

The huge advantage with CWs and tenacity is that tenacity (and I assume shield works this way too?) benefits squishy targets the MOST, so for a CW in pvp there is actually no point to stack DR because of ARP, this allows tenacity @ 20% to be a FULL 20% DR boost to them, where as on a GF or GWF with 50% base DR its about HALF as effective....

Maybe you can clarify....

Tenacity is an actual Multiplier on your resistance. If you manage to negate someone to zero resistance then their tenacity does nothing

Armor Penetration DOES indirectly act on Tenacity in this way, because tenacity mutliplies your resistance, but if your resistance is zero then you get nothing from it. TL;DR Arpen counters Tenacity.

Time for another example!

Wizard with 25% DR, 30% Tenacity, and R3 Shield Unstable in Mastery takes 15000 damage

15000 * (1 - (.25 * 1.3)) * (1 - .5) = 5062.5 for a total REAL resist of 67%

Now what if the player hitting him has more than 25% armor pen? It looks like this!

15000 * (1 - ((.25-.25) * 1.3)) * (1 - .5) = 7500 or a real resist of 50%. Just the R3 Mastery shield. Your armor penetration in this case increased your damage by nearly 50%.

This is the MAJOR reason wizards exploded so fast before. Once shield was depleted it acted for such a small amount (or none at all if it was R1 or you didn't slot it) that you could deal an incredible amount of bonus damage.

Another way to look at it is as follows. The more tenacity the opponent has, the more valuable EACH POINT OF ARPEN YOU CARRY IS! In this case it makes up a substantive portion of your possible outgoing damage. Also, it is far more efficient than power in PVP up to almost 35~38% resistance ignored (just from the stat ARPen) when your foe has tenacity. This obviously has a breakpoint based on how much tenacity the foe has and so on and so forth, but this also means that there is a hard cap on how much bonus damage you can leverage on wizards, but against foes with more DR you can do substantially more damage.

Hopefully that clears up some of the math behind it.

However all that said, shield is probably retaining a tad too much resist while unstable. Therefore I will be reducing it slightly.

Shield will go down to retaining 25% of its effectiveness while destabilized. It dose this in 1 step in normal slots and 2 steps in Mastery Slots.

Damage resist and Tenacity explanation.

mfgamesys

10 char this is to be ignored

mfgamesys

After testing it appears to be that block is not engaging and mitigating as it should as is causing hits to have 60 to 70% efficiency.

These are rapid strikes from an hr with block

http://pastebin.com/PJM4vTN1

http://pastebin.com/W7G3gHTd

This is rapid strike from an hr without block

http://pastebin.com/0xVfVM2s

If you look at the logs from when I am blocking rapid strike the first 2 hits from rapid seem to not be affected by guard at all and by regular dr and the base damage is higher which means that when you put up block right away you are taking more damage than not blocking.

This is what my theory is atm and will be tested on against other classes.

aiulian

mfgamesys wrote: »

If you look at the logs from when I am blocking rapid strike the first 2 hits from rapid seem to not be affected by guard at all and by regular dr and the base damage is higher which means that when you put up block right away you are taking more damage than not blocking.

Question: are you using Shield Talent? Or have any shield buff? (there s a boon in IWD if I remember right that adds stamina/guard +250) Cause it can be that the bonus part of the guard is not working properly.

mfgamesys

I do have the IWD boon and shield talent but this happens without these as well. It is a fundamental problem with guard affecting everyone.