khimera906Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 898Arc User
edited October 2014
Everything has been pretty much said. I've been playing a TR since beta, and even though I have all the classes by now, the TR is still my main and my favorite class. I want this class to stand out as the primary single target dps, as it's supposed to do. Or at least make Shoking Execution a daily power that's worth slotting . 9k critical hit with a single target daily from what's supposed to be the dps class? Com on!
I hate dancing with Lady Luck. She always steps on my toes.
The part I love best about the TR is that it requires a higher level of skill to play with regards to PvP. Stealth is a large component of this. I've also played CW, HR, and GWF extensively in PvP as well as TR, but I could never settle into them because it felt like straightforward fighting, as though it was pretty much only stats at work facing each other out in the open with limited options. With TR it requires maintaining a tight rotation of abilities to remain in stealth for survivability, as well as being much more aware to avoid AOEs or getting too close to enemies which could potentially lead to them knocking you out of stealth. I also love how duelist fury is a very hard hitting, long charge up time skill, but one that requires a lot of skill to land by predicting movement + utilizing timing. Combining these elements together makes a skill for a much more skill based class when it comes to PvP over the others, it gives opportunity for ones skill to play a more important role in how their fights go, rather than it being more stat based as with other classes.
If it weren't for these more interactive "skill" based components of the TR class, I would've quit the game a long time ago, because those elements just don't exists on the same degree within other classes.
2. What do you LEAST like about the TR class?
To some degree, I do not like these perma/semi-perma stealth based builds which one nneds to rely on to stay alive in more advanced PvP since rogues cannot do enough spike damage to allow for them to have a more straightforward or offensive build. That being said, the stealth mechanic is a large portion of what I love about the class since it adds a skill component to maintaining a stealth rotation while being very careful to avoid detection/AOEs or other tricks which may remove stealth, leaving one vulnerable. I suppose what I am trying to say is that the stealth mechanic is fantastic for adding a skill component to the class, but rogues should be effective enough out of stealth to not need to rely on a stealth based build to be competitive with other classes.
I'd also love to see some more rapid/fluid attacking/movement with regards to the class. I feel like rogues should have melee at-wills and dodges more similar to the Hunter Ranger class which are much more fast and controllable. When rogue comes to mind I think of fast, stealthy, in-and out, trickery, ect. To me, the rogue class right now feels a little heavy, clunky, slow hitting spike damage. Perhaps that is how it should be and then a more fast, fluid class would be something like an assassin class, but this is just my opinion with regards to it.
3. In what direction do you want to see this class go?
I'd like to see this class maintain or even add more skill based components in the future (maintaining a fragile stealth rotation and landing duelist fury add a lot of skill to playing the class, particularly in PvP when compared to other classes which is what I love about rogue), and also perhaps more "trickery" based skills as well. I'd like to see rogues as a more technical class, rewarding precise timing with fast paced combat.
Lastly, congrats todesfaelle on your new position! While I am a PvP addict and would've loved to see another PvP die-hard in the position, you are definitely the right guy for the job since you do engage in more creative thinking on how to utilize the class to its potential and are involved in all aspects of the game rather than just PvP. Best wishes to you going forward, and glad to have you here to advocate for us
1. What do you like about the TR class? - Whether it be the part where you get to contest nodes by yourself in PVP, or how your gear looks menacing, list 'em all here.
* I like that it feels more hands on then the other classes and I like the IDEA of what it is SUPPOSED to be.
2. What do you LEAST like about the TR class? - Opposite of #1, do you dislike the incredulously minute damage we do in PVE, or how clunky certain skills work, if you dislike it, it belongs here.
**PVE** No role in a pve group, you are a wasted spot. There shouldn't be boss fights that can't be finished because we have two TRs in the group that can't dish out the amount of single target DSP on a boss that is needed. That should be something we have NO problem with. TRs aren't good dps, single target or otherwise. While some of that is from a utter lack of damage a lot of it stems from how mobs and bosses are set up. A lot of boss fights you will have a lot of melee ranged AoE. this melee ranged AoE does nothing to any class and really has no point other then it forces the TR to disengage in order to keep from being killed with one hit. the melee AoEs can be simply taken by a GF or GWF and only pose a threat to the TR. In the future I would like to see bosses made that don't have attacks that are in place only to hinder one class. That brings me to my next point. No survivability I had a 13k CW that could take a hit better then my 13k TR, why? There needs to be adjustments made here. As it is the TR can't afford to even be looked at wrong by something without being at risk of being killed. If we must be bound to stealth mode in PVE at least make it give us a big defense bonus or something (obviously that may be an issue in PVP). No mobility/speed out of the box the TR is one of the slowest classes in the game. We are easily out maneuvered or left behind by GWF, CW, SW, and HR. It is just upright silly that we can be out maneuvered by two book worm classes and a guy running around in metal armor with a giant sword. HRs and TRs should be on the same level when it comes to movement options, as both classes should be highly mobile. In other words in a race a TR should either come in 1st or Tie for 1st with a HR, not come in 5th just ahead of a DC and GF. Utterly worthless feats Save the DC we have some of the most worthless feats in the game. We are forced to take feats that will do nothing at all in order to get ones that we want. I should never look at two feats and pick which one is less worthless in order to unlock the next tier. I think about half of my paragon points are in feats I don't even want/need. No real options for feats The real truth of the matter is that all TRs end up taking about the same feat set up, save one or two for personal flare. I would like all three of our paragon paths to have a purpose so I'm not stuck being a cookie cutter class. All classes suffer from this a little but my TR is the only one where I don't feel I have the option go to in any direction other then one. Our CC is a joke Daze does nothing for our class. It has a slight use in PvE and is utterly worthless in PvP. Having something that does a stun would be nice, dazing strike changed to stunning strike would be lovely. Cool downs are way to long on most of our powers that matter. As has been noted many times since we have a lot of powers that could use a second or so shaved off of their cool downs. This would help with making our class feel more fluid and less clumsy. Slow powers and flat footed powers I'm supposed to be a dexterous nightmare and yet my main dps at-will (flurry) I have to stand still for and will often miss with because mobs/players can just slowly walk away from me and there isn't anything I can do about it. The animations and down time on Flurry, dazing strike, shadow strike, and some of the others listed above are too long and need to be shortened. Flurry needs to be nimble and quick instead of clumsy and frustrating. Our dodge roll isn't enough we need 3 dodges or the ability to run like the wind (GWF and SW style). Having a class that is supposed to be highly dexterous and giving it no more of an ability to move around quickly in and out of combat then a DC is nearly offensive. I feel we should be in line with the HR class at least, give us a good disengage that can be used often, because we will be needing it often. As stated above we should be a fast moving class on the battle field, one of if not the fastest. Stealth is broken in PvE, Bosses and Mobs sometimes (often) see through it Since our only defense in PvE is our ability to stealth it would make sense that I not have bosses and mobs/adds trying to hammer the life out of me while I am in stealth. I'm sure this is a known issue but I would like to see it at least somewhat addressed. And for God's sake start going easy on the Add crazy boss fights. 100 adds per 1 boss isn't making the boss hard, it is being lazy in design. Constant power misfires I have played a few different classes and none of them have as many power misfires as my TR. I don't know how many times I have tossed a life saving smoke bomb, or hit shadow strike at a time that i needed to stealth or die just to hear the sound FX and the power either doesn't fire or misfires and goes on cool down. 50% of my deaths are errors on my side, the other 50% are glitches in power usage. PVE gear is worthless for a TR, we HAVE to get PVP gear in order to play PVE. That mostly stems from the stealth bonus from the PvP gear. Since we need to be in stealth as much as possible to survive encounters it makes all dungeon sets pointless. I dare you to find a good TR that is running around with a T2 dungeon set. That is my run down of PVE, now for some PVP talk.
**PVP** Stealth or die While I do kind of enjoy the catch me if you can feel of stealthing around in PVP I would like more options then just run in circles in stealth and annoy everyone for as long as I can. some good CCs, gap closers, spike damage, and a much needed disengage ability would be nice. I want to be able to drop stealth at will, not wait for it to run out! Stealth is the only thing positive about a TR in a PVP match. I'd like to be able to use it as needed. I know other classes complain about a TR being in stealth to much but what they fail to realize is that the second we drop out any class save a DC (which we can't kill anyways) is able to take us out Stealth might be annoying to them, but it is the only thing making a 1v1 fight somewhat fair. Cloud of steel either needs to be bumped back up to 12 or so charges or have the cool down decreased. As it stands now we blow all 8 of our knives and then run circles as we wait to be able to do something again, and it takes longer then it should. This is a big one. I don't want to be reliant on being in stealth 100% of the time I am fighting someone. Save for the few seconds we have impossible to catch on if we aren't in stealth during a fight we are in trouble. I would like to be able to have more of a hit and run or stun and run play style that focuses on quick spike damage, Stun CCs, and quick disengages with Stealth added as more of a safety net then have it be the only way I can fight. Enemy players should not be able to avoid my attacks by slowly walking away. The TR is an up close and dirty fighter and yet a GF and just pull up his shield and slowly (and they do move slowly) back away and most of my attacks will just miss and the ones that don't are blocked NO OTHER CLASS SUFFERS FROM THIS.
3. In what direction do you want to see this class go? - Ripped off from Akro's post, because everyone deserves an opportunity to have their answers to this question heard.
I want to have a role in a PvE group. I want to be relevant. When I am reading the LFG chat I want to see someone looking for a TR, not just GWF, GF, CW, SW, and DCs. When I engage someone in PVP I want them to know that I could kill them, not just annoy them until they get a hold of me.
Well that should be about it. A lot of points I wanted to make were already made, and I'm sure I left some things out but the rest of the posts paint a pretty clear picture of what we are missing. Everyone Cross your fingers and hope for the best. In all of this I don't think that stealth needs much of a rework, but that depends on how crazy the changes that are going to be made are.
I really can't stress these points enough though. Mobility, better feats, and better CCs/Spike damage
Most of it has been said already, so I'll just post some small ideas.
What do you like about TR class:
The concept, stealth, varied skills from melee or range. a playstyle that requires to be always moving and wary of the environement
What I don't like about the class:
We're supposed to be the top single target damage class, and we're not. We're not useful in groups, in PVP we're useful just by being always hidden peeling HP slowly. We're supposed to be agile but we have few evades, and in general very few ways to defend outselves outside of stealth.
In what direction do you want to see this class go?
I want to have various tools for offensive, defensive and CC playstyle. we should be the most agile class, the top striker for single target. I want to have a role in endgame PVE, to be useful, and not only by having 20k GS.
I'd love to see more CC, I want a FUN class, something that requires thinking and planning, but rewards us for doing it.
In PvE terms, it lacks the ability to contribute in a way that sets the class apart. Its damage output is lower than it probably should be, of course, but I think the problem goes a bit beyond that; every class can inflict damage. There should be more that TRs bring to dungeon runs and the like that sets them apart better; dungeons should contain ways for TRs to use stealth to bypass or alter the dynamics of some encounters, the ability to disarm traps should be made more useful, and there could be other things they could probably do, like add a few elements easily accessible only through TR powers like Deft Strike (for instance, a chest up on a ledge behind some mob). So I think the problems with TRs isn't just with their own abilities, but that content hasn't been designed to cater to class uniqueness and allowing TRs to do thing that make them feel rogue-y enough. Obviously, this might require significant resources for possibly small gain. Reworking stealth mechanics so TRs could use it in a different fashion in PvE might be viable, though.
(Part of the issue here is that the TR is conceptually a bit of a loner/solo class/scout, which needs to be fit into a group dynamic, or content changed to allow them to engage in their niche a bit more. TRs have historically been able to solo some bosses and dungeons simply by staying stealthy and exploiting this mechanic; ideally there would be more room for TRs to do stuff like slip ahead of the party to disarm traps, pull levers to open pits that adds can be pushed into, and stuff like that.)
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!" pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all." looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
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shunterinoMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited October 2014
I think the following are worth bringing to the Dev's attention:
1. Mobility: We're too slow. We should be the fastest class but we aren't. Base speed could do with a bit of a boost.
2. Dodges: We need more.
3. Stealth: With the new at-will depletion of stealth about to arrive once we're out of stealth we really need to be able to regain stealth even when we're taking damage (which we will always be taking once we can be seen — see 1 and 2 above).
How long it takes to fix TR bugs? 1,5 year and no bugs are fixed. ITC bugged, shadow strike bugged, potb bugged, impact shot bugged(reduce dmg on each hit instead of increase). Also most likely that swift footwork is bugged as well. And another thing is useless feat which reduce aggro? Why is it still there??
Tairev-TR(All kind of killing tools) Asha-DC(Faithful-Anointed Champion) Vilgefortz-CW(Thaumaturge-balance)
TR should be a trickster with a bag of strategy and a rouge fast, sneaky and deadly.
I WANT
-Whisperknife to be able to throw daggers while running
-Stealth to be able to use even if the meter is not full
-Fast animation/execution of At-wills and certain Encounters like Vengeance Pursuit and Smoke Bomb
-Added Effect to skill Smoke Bomb: Increase deflect chance while inside smoke bomb/poison status/blind status
-Added Effect to skill Dazing strike: Cripple status which lowers enemies damage
-Lower cooldown of Deft Strike and Vengeance Pursuit
-Bait and Switch animation to be change into something deceptive like when hit restores % of stealth meter and applies abnormal status to enemy
-Whisperknife Razor Action: Chance to apply bleeding
-Duelist Flurry: change/faster animation
-Disheartening Strike: change/faster animation
-Smoke Bomb Radius increased and improved
-More dodge from Stamina
2. What do you LEAST like about the TR class?
TR is slow and weak compared to other class they are least welcome in dungeon raids because other class beats them in all aspect! from damage to crowd control of course do not expect TR to tank.
3. In what direction do you want to see this class go?
I want TR to have a place in pve and pvp
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feanor70118Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,170Arc User
edited October 2014
Everything about somemook's post is spot on. This is probably how almost all of us playing TR feel. If the devs simply pay attention to this and address all those concerns we'd be competitive. It is ridiculous that a class that should be slow and weighed down by its armor, i.e. GWF, has the fastest movement in the game and rogues under stealth - which runs out quickly - are slower than GWFs under Sprint (which is a terrible idea and should be removed from the game), which they can do almost perpetually. That said:
What I like about the TR:
Stealh. It makes it fun to play by out-thinking your opponent and making them guess your intentions/hiding places wrongly.
What I don't like:
1) Too little damage.
2) Not being able to attack while moving.
3) Abilities that FAIL CONSTANTLY. Shadow strike fails to do anything but cooldown much of the time. Bait and switch sometimes fails to restore stealh. Bloodbath often does nothing but drain action points.
4) The desperately clunky amination of duelist's flurry. Often when I need to switch targets or use another ability I'm a prisoner of the thirs strike animation of DF for two crucial seconds.
5) Everything else somemook said.
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demonmongerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,350Arc User
edited October 2014
Hey Advocate,
I would like to see duelist flurrys initial two strikes have their speed increased. Since this at will cannot be used from stealth it needs to begin faster.
no one will sit there and wait for our attacks to happen.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
Hey Advocate,
I would like to see duelist flurrys initial two strikes have their speed increased. Since this at will cannot be used from stealth it needs to begin faster.
no one will sit there and wait for our attacks to happen.
Since Duelist Flurry now drains stealth ridiculously fast... they may as well get rid of those slow first two strikes that were meant to add balance to DF, and put them in the flurry portion of the attack.
Campaign - Trail of the Imaskarcana (NWS-DMFG77QOF)
I think the DF animation should be twice as fast. TR's are suppose to be quick, and attack quick. The current animation is too long and keeps you in place too long. Additionally it is not feasible to use with new stealth drain changes at its current speed.
With x2 animation speed, it should have it's damage reduced by 40% - 45%. Any more than that, and it still wont be a better option, or even an option, over Gloaming Cut.
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tankinatorfrMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 107Bounty Hunter
With x2 animation speed, it should have it's damage reduced by 40% - 45%. Any more than that, and it still wont be a better option, or even an option, over Gloaming Cut.
Executioner's re-balance already remove a lot of damage from this power (15 to 40% critical severity essentially), but also it's synergy with encounters (reload them faster). No need for 40-45% of damage reduction, we already loose a lot. Trust me. I am playing an anti-boss DF TR, and on the preview, I am more efficient with SF...
It used to be much more powerful but slower than SF, but now it is nearly as powerful but slower.
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shunterinoMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited November 2014
TRs are getting too much ArP on prettymuch everything (artifacts, new gear,set bonuses etc). The Draconic Templar armor is more of the same. We could do with a little more variety.
Also, an update on how things are going as class advocate, what stuff you've been passing along to devs etc would be nice.
Its nice to see a rework being done without listening to the actual players.
Its nice to see that after the rework the dev's favourite classes will be crying tears due to tr's
Its nice to see that their cries for perma's lead to this
All in all Its nice to see nerfing stealth without asking the perma's around (that includes high INT exec, mid INT sabo AND their WK counterparts)
AND FINNALY its nice to see that the ONLY class that needed dmg buff and defence balancing (i m considering stealth infinite defence here ) says 'dont give us SO much damage' (in pvp) and 'give us something to stay ALIVE' (in pve).
I ve had my differences with some of the TR's around BUT Im really proud for the decency within all of you , honestly.
Its sad that the game managers dont live up to that
2.Conclusion
You are gonna a rework within one month from now.
You probably think that THIS 'class balancing' so proudly advertised will attract ANY MMO PLAYER that is gonna play even 1 week NWO? You think that people will stop those games for NWO?Think again
Now if you all are done bickering amongst yourselves, please do adhere to the thread guidelines set down by the advocate as well as the Rules of Conduct. Respect is not optional on this board, it is mandatory. Thank you.
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Comments
The part I love best about the TR is that it requires a higher level of skill to play with regards to PvP. Stealth is a large component of this. I've also played CW, HR, and GWF extensively in PvP as well as TR, but I could never settle into them because it felt like straightforward fighting, as though it was pretty much only stats at work facing each other out in the open with limited options. With TR it requires maintaining a tight rotation of abilities to remain in stealth for survivability, as well as being much more aware to avoid AOEs or getting too close to enemies which could potentially lead to them knocking you out of stealth. I also love how duelist fury is a very hard hitting, long charge up time skill, but one that requires a lot of skill to land by predicting movement + utilizing timing. Combining these elements together makes a skill for a much more skill based class when it comes to PvP over the others, it gives opportunity for ones skill to play a more important role in how their fights go, rather than it being more stat based as with other classes.
If it weren't for these more interactive "skill" based components of the TR class, I would've quit the game a long time ago, because those elements just don't exists on the same degree within other classes.
2. What do you LEAST like about the TR class?
To some degree, I do not like these perma/semi-perma stealth based builds which one nneds to rely on to stay alive in more advanced PvP since rogues cannot do enough spike damage to allow for them to have a more straightforward or offensive build. That being said, the stealth mechanic is a large portion of what I love about the class since it adds a skill component to maintaining a stealth rotation while being very careful to avoid detection/AOEs or other tricks which may remove stealth, leaving one vulnerable. I suppose what I am trying to say is that the stealth mechanic is fantastic for adding a skill component to the class, but rogues should be effective enough out of stealth to not need to rely on a stealth based build to be competitive with other classes.
I'd also love to see some more rapid/fluid attacking/movement with regards to the class. I feel like rogues should have melee at-wills and dodges more similar to the Hunter Ranger class which are much more fast and controllable. When rogue comes to mind I think of fast, stealthy, in-and out, trickery, ect. To me, the rogue class right now feels a little heavy, clunky, slow hitting spike damage. Perhaps that is how it should be and then a more fast, fluid class would be something like an assassin class, but this is just my opinion with regards to it.
3. In what direction do you want to see this class go?
I'd like to see this class maintain or even add more skill based components in the future (maintaining a fragile stealth rotation and landing duelist fury add a lot of skill to playing the class, particularly in PvP when compared to other classes which is what I love about rogue), and also perhaps more "trickery" based skills as well. I'd like to see rogues as a more technical class, rewarding precise timing with fast paced combat.
Lastly, congrats todesfaelle on your new position! While I am a PvP addict and would've loved to see another PvP die-hard in the position, you are definitely the right guy for the job since you do engage in more creative thinking on how to utilize the class to its potential and are involved in all aspects of the game rather than just PvP. Best wishes to you going forward, and glad to have you here to advocate for us
* I like that it feels more hands on then the other classes and I like the IDEA of what it is SUPPOSED to be.
2. What do you LEAST like about the TR class? - Opposite of #1, do you dislike the incredulously minute damage we do in PVE, or how clunky certain skills work, if you dislike it, it belongs here.
**PVE**
No role in a pve group, you are a wasted spot. There shouldn't be boss fights that can't be finished because we have two TRs in the group that can't dish out the amount of single target DSP on a boss that is needed. That should be something we have NO problem with. TRs aren't good dps, single target or otherwise. While some of that is from a utter lack of damage a lot of it stems from how mobs and bosses are set up. A lot of boss fights you will have a lot of melee ranged AoE. this melee ranged AoE does nothing to any class and really has no point other then it forces the TR to disengage in order to keep from being killed with one hit. the melee AoEs can be simply taken by a GF or GWF and only pose a threat to the TR. In the future I would like to see bosses made that don't have attacks that are in place only to hinder one class. That brings me to my next point. No survivability I had a 13k CW that could take a hit better then my 13k TR, why? There needs to be adjustments made here. As it is the TR can't afford to even be looked at wrong by something without being at risk of being killed. If we must be bound to stealth mode in PVE at least make it give us a big defense bonus or something (obviously that may be an issue in PVP). No mobility/speed out of the box the TR is one of the slowest classes in the game. We are easily out maneuvered or left behind by GWF, CW, SW, and HR. It is just upright silly that we can be out maneuvered by two book worm classes and a guy running around in metal armor with a giant sword. HRs and TRs should be on the same level when it comes to movement options, as both classes should be highly mobile. In other words in a race a TR should either come in 1st or Tie for 1st with a HR, not come in 5th just ahead of a DC and GF. Utterly worthless feats Save the DC we have some of the most worthless feats in the game. We are forced to take feats that will do nothing at all in order to get ones that we want. I should never look at two feats and pick which one is less worthless in order to unlock the next tier. I think about half of my paragon points are in feats I don't even want/need. No real options for feats The real truth of the matter is that all TRs end up taking about the same feat set up, save one or two for personal flare. I would like all three of our paragon paths to have a purpose so I'm not stuck being a cookie cutter class. All classes suffer from this a little but my TR is the only one where I don't feel I have the option go to in any direction other then one. Our CC is a joke Daze does nothing for our class. It has a slight use in PvE and is utterly worthless in PvP. Having something that does a stun would be nice, dazing strike changed to stunning strike would be lovely. Cool downs are way to long on most of our powers that matter. As has been noted many times since we have a lot of powers that could use a second or so shaved off of their cool downs. This would help with making our class feel more fluid and less clumsy. Slow powers and flat footed powers
I'm supposed to be a dexterous nightmare and yet my main dps at-will (flurry) I have to stand still for and will often miss with because mobs/players can just slowly walk away from me and there isn't anything I can do about it. The animations and down time on Flurry, dazing strike, shadow strike, and some of the others listed above are too long and need to be shortened. Flurry needs to be nimble and quick instead of clumsy and frustrating. Our dodge roll isn't enough we need 3 dodges or the ability to run like the wind (GWF and SW style). Having a class that is supposed to be highly dexterous and giving it no more of an ability to move around quickly in and out of combat then a DC is nearly offensive. I feel we should be in line with the HR class at least, give us a good disengage that can be used often, because we will be needing it often. As stated above we should be a fast moving class on the battle field, one of if not the fastest. Stealth is broken in PvE, Bosses and Mobs sometimes (often) see through it Since our only defense in PvE is our ability to stealth it would make sense that I not have bosses and mobs/adds trying to hammer the life out of me while I am in stealth. I'm sure this is a known issue but I would like to see it at least somewhat addressed. And for God's sake start going easy on the Add crazy boss fights. 100 adds per 1 boss isn't making the boss hard, it is being lazy in design. Constant power misfires I have played a few different classes and none of them have as many power misfires as my TR. I don't know how many times I have tossed a life saving smoke bomb, or hit shadow strike at a time that i needed to stealth or die just to hear the sound FX and the power either doesn't fire or misfires and goes on cool down. 50% of my deaths are errors on my side, the other 50% are glitches in power usage. PVE gear is worthless for a TR, we HAVE to get PVP gear in order to play PVE. That mostly stems from the stealth bonus from the PvP gear. Since we need to be in stealth as much as possible to survive encounters it makes all dungeon sets pointless. I dare you to find a good TR that is running around with a T2 dungeon set. That is my run down of PVE, now for some PVP talk.
**PVP**
Stealth or die While I do kind of enjoy the catch me if you can feel of stealthing around in PVP I would like more options then just run in circles in stealth and annoy everyone for as long as I can. some good CCs, gap closers, spike damage, and a much needed disengage ability would be nice. I want to be able to drop stealth at will, not wait for it to run out! Stealth is the only thing positive about a TR in a PVP match. I'd like to be able to use it as needed. I know other classes complain about a TR being in stealth to much but what they fail to realize is that the second we drop out any class save a DC (which we can't kill anyways) is able to take us out Stealth might be annoying to them, but it is the only thing making a 1v1 fight somewhat fair. Cloud of steel either needs to be bumped back up to 12 or so charges or have the cool down decreased. As it stands now we blow all 8 of our knives and then run circles as we wait to be able to do something again, and it takes longer then it should. This is a big one. I don't want to be reliant on being in stealth 100% of the time I am fighting someone. Save for the few seconds we have impossible to catch on if we aren't in stealth during a fight we are in trouble. I would like to be able to have more of a hit and run or stun and run play style that focuses on quick spike damage, Stun CCs, and quick disengages with Stealth added as more of a safety net then have it be the only way I can fight. Enemy players should not be able to avoid my attacks by slowly walking away. The TR is an up close and dirty fighter and yet a GF and just pull up his shield and slowly (and they do move slowly) back away and most of my attacks will just miss and the ones that don't are blocked NO OTHER CLASS SUFFERS FROM THIS.
3. In what direction do you want to see this class go? - Ripped off from Akro's post, because everyone deserves an opportunity to have their answers to this question heard.
I want to have a role in a PvE group. I want to be relevant. When I am reading the LFG chat I want to see someone looking for a TR, not just GWF, GF, CW, SW, and DCs. When I engage someone in PVP I want them to know that I could kill them, not just annoy them until they get a hold of me.
Well that should be about it. A lot of points I wanted to make were already made, and I'm sure I left some things out but the rest of the posts paint a pretty clear picture of what we are missing. Everyone Cross your fingers and hope for the best. In all of this I don't think that stealth needs much of a rework, but that depends on how crazy the changes that are going to be made are.
I really can't stress these points enough though. Mobility, better feats, and better CCs/Spike damage
What do you like about TR class:
The concept, stealth, varied skills from melee or range. a playstyle that requires to be always moving and wary of the environement
What I don't like about the class:
We're supposed to be the top single target damage class, and we're not. We're not useful in groups, in PVP we're useful just by being always hidden peeling HP slowly. We're supposed to be agile but we have few evades, and in general very few ways to defend outselves outside of stealth.
In what direction do you want to see this class go?
I want to have various tools for offensive, defensive and CC playstyle. we should be the most agile class, the top striker for single target. I want to have a role in endgame PVE, to be useful, and not only by having 20k GS.
I'd love to see more CC, I want a FUN class, something that requires thinking and planning, but rewards us for doing it.
That is an excellent description!!
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
1. Mobility: We're too slow. We should be the fastest class but we aren't. Base speed could do with a bit of a boost.
2. Dodges: We need more.
3. Stealth: With the new at-will depletion of stealth about to arrive once we're out of stealth we really need to be able to regain stealth even when we're taking damage (which we will always be taking once we can be seen — see 1 and 2 above).
Asha-DC(Faithful-Anointed Champion)
Vilgefortz-CW(Thaumaturge-balance)
TR should be a trickster with a bag of strategy and a rouge fast, sneaky and deadly.
I WANT
-Whisperknife to be able to throw daggers while running
-Stealth to be able to use even if the meter is not full
-Fast animation/execution of At-wills and certain Encounters like Vengeance Pursuit and Smoke Bomb
-Added Effect to skill Smoke Bomb: Increase deflect chance while inside smoke bomb/poison status/blind status
-Added Effect to skill Dazing strike: Cripple status which lowers enemies damage
-Lower cooldown of Deft Strike and Vengeance Pursuit
-Bait and Switch animation to be change into something deceptive like when hit restores % of stealth meter and applies abnormal status to enemy
-Whisperknife Razor Action: Chance to apply bleeding
-Duelist Flurry: change/faster animation
-Disheartening Strike: change/faster animation
-Smoke Bomb Radius increased and improved
-More dodge from Stamina
2. What do you LEAST like about the TR class?
TR is slow and weak compared to other class they are least welcome in dungeon raids because other class beats them in all aspect! from damage to crowd control of course do not expect TR to tank.
3. In what direction do you want to see this class go?
I want TR to have a place in pve and pvp
What I like about the TR:
Stealh. It makes it fun to play by out-thinking your opponent and making them guess your intentions/hiding places wrongly.
What I don't like:
1) Too little damage.
2) Not being able to attack while moving.
3) Abilities that FAIL CONSTANTLY. Shadow strike fails to do anything but cooldown much of the time. Bait and switch sometimes fails to restore stealh. Bloodbath often does nothing but drain action points.
4) The desperately clunky amination of duelist's flurry. Often when I need to switch targets or use another ability I'm a prisoner of the thirs strike animation of DF for two crucial seconds.
5) Everything else somemook said.
I would like to see duelist flurrys initial two strikes have their speed increased. Since this at will cannot be used from stealth it needs to begin faster.
no one will sit there and wait for our attacks to happen.
Since Duelist Flurry now drains stealth ridiculously fast... they may as well get rid of those slow first two strikes that were meant to add balance to DF, and put them in the flurry portion of the attack.
With x2 animation speed, it should have it's damage reduced by 40% - 45%. Any more than that, and it still wont be a better option, or even an option, over Gloaming Cut.
Executioner's re-balance already remove a lot of damage from this power (15 to 40% critical severity essentially), but also it's synergy with encounters (reload them faster). No need for 40-45% of damage reduction, we already loose a lot. Trust me. I am playing an anti-boss DF TR, and on the preview, I am more efficient with SF...
It used to be much more powerful but slower than SF, but now it is nearly as powerful but slower.
Also, an update on how things are going as class advocate, what stuff you've been passing along to devs etc would be nice.
I second this. They've effectively buffed the at-will that doesn't really fit into any viable rotations :P.
its effective as *** just u forum heros cant play
1.Preface
Its nice to see a rework being done without listening to the actual players.
Its nice to see that after the rework the dev's favourite classes will be crying tears due to tr's
Its nice to see that their cries for perma's lead to this
All in all Its nice to see nerfing stealth without asking the perma's around (that includes high INT exec, mid INT sabo AND their WK counterparts)
AND FINNALY its nice to see that the ONLY class that needed dmg buff and defence balancing (i m considering stealth infinite defence here ) says 'dont give us SO much damage' (in pvp) and 'give us something to stay ALIVE' (in pve).
I ve had my differences with some of the TR's around BUT Im really proud for the decency within all of you , honestly.
Its sad that the game managers dont live up to that
2.Conclusion
You are gonna a rework within one month from now.
You probably think that THIS 'class balancing' so proudly advertised will attract ANY MMO PLAYER that is gonna play even 1 week NWO? You think that people will stop those games for NWO?Think again
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
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