Not the burst your bubble but this is totally off. The amount of damage she deals and the amount of damage she heals for are completely separate entities and she heals for far less. Of course you also have somewhat control of this by simply killing her adds while she is killing them to prevent healing.
Looking at several ACT parses she averages 12k healing per second, which just about any class can out damage in the long run. Now you may have been referring to burst, ie she will burst heal for 40k for about 3 seconds, so you need to burst damage about 44k for the same time frame in order to keep her hp depleting, and while that may be true, there is no way you need 44k DPS to kill her. If that were the case then I doubt any CW could solo her.
Her heal ability is called Spiderlink Heal, and it's based on her damage ability called Spiderlink.
Almost all of her damage (66% of it avg in the few runs i've got logs for in ACT) is from an ability called Lolth's Wrath which simply kills the mobs (and splash dmg on any player standing in the red) after she has finished draining their hp/healing herself reducing them to ~25% of their health. She deals 100% of their hp in dmg to the mobs in question which is why she has such high damage output but relatively very little of it is against players and none of it counts towards healing.
If you can handle the blademaster's indefinitely and can overcome her 12k healing per second you can solo ToS. How much over 12k dps determines how long it will take and I think most players have problems with it not because of DPS, but because they actually can't handle blademaster's indefinitely.
In some ways you're correct. In other ways, maybe a bit off.
I went back and looked at some ACT parses of group runs of TOS. You are correct that 12k HP is a typical heal rate for Syndryth. You're also correct in describing the mechanism she uses to heal. I was not correct in my assumption of how it worked.
Where you may be a bit off is that her healing can vary pretty widely based on how efficient the group is at killing adds. Here's what I would consider a typical fight with Syndryth:
She heals herself for 12k HP/s. Her DPS is about 15k. The fight takes about 5 minutes. Syndryth is able to steal 18,794.3 HP from an average of 18 allies (minimum 11, max 31) around every 28 seconds.
Here's a run I did with a very, very high DPS group:
She heals herself for 7.3k Hp/s. Her DPS is about 4.5k. The fight takes 68 seconds. Syndryth is able to steal 18,794.3 HP from an average of 11 allies (minimum 8, max of 16) around every 28 seconds.
You can see that how much health Syndryth gets per round of Spiderlink can vary from 150k (8 enemies at 18.7k) to 600k (31 enemies at 18.7k). In the high-DPS run, because she has so many less allies to kill, her DPS plummeted. We killed everything so quickly she had nothing left to kill.
Now compare that to my successful solo fight against her:
She heals herself for ??? HP (...stupid ACT). Her DPS is 38k (I did make note of that before it crashed). The fight takes 20+ minutes.
Her DPS went bonkers compared to what it is typically because she had so many more allies to steal health from that I just couldn't mow down fast enough. That tells me her health steal was probably toward the high end of what she is capable of (600k/28 seconds = 21k HP/s). If not higher.
But, you don't need to take my word for it. Ask Chem. He's parsed many, many dungeon runs and does 25k+ DPS and started this topic because he realized that he just wasn't making any progress burning her health down. My DPS during my 4 hours in ToS was 36k. For most of the time in there that wasn't enough either. It was only at the end that when I went well above that that I could finally wear her health down.
If someone would want to make an uber-tanky build and just cast single-target spells at Syndryth such that their DPS is over 12k while ignoring the blademasters I'd be curious to see the result. But I would bet heavily against their success even if they are able to survive. The problem is you have to view Syndryth and the adds as sharing one large collective health pool. And whatever you don't remove from the pool in the form of adds will eventually go to her.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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chemboy613Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,521Arc User
edited November 2014
your DPS depends on the situation too. My solo CN run it was clsoe to 33k DPS - because of the time fighting draco. When moving through dungeons, 25k DPS is good.
Now here, more mobs is more healing. ALso when you solo you have to dodge MUCH more which hurts your DPS. 36k DPS is very impressive, honestly, but the healing is really overwhelming. When i tried this i could last a while, but I couldn't get enough damage to outdo her heal, and I guess i was at what? 30k DPS? which is still really good?
When you have a buff or even a teammate or two, it's rather amazing how much difference they make. A good DC or GF and this fight is easily done two man. Solo it's very difficult.
inthefade462Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited November 2014
the 12k heal/sec she still had 36k DPS. I have a log of 10k heal/sec and still 35k DPS. and one where she heals 11k/sec and dps is only 20k DPS.
You are correct that her healing directly proportional to the amount of hp of adds that you aren't removing, but it is capped and it is not proportional to her DPS output. Almost all (66% every run) of her dmg output is her dealing 100% of her add's health to every add left alive, even though they have only 25% health (assuming you only went single target and did not attack the adds at all).
So her DPS is irrelevant. It's all BS and it's not adding to her healing. The only DPS that matters to you is blademasters and mostly due to stun. And the only healing that she does is from spiderlink. I think it's misguided to treat it as 1 giant hp pool. It's a timed event in which only adds which are alive can contribute to her health. Before this their health is meaningless (assuming you can survive/control them) and after this she kills them anyway.
She heals for about 1.5 seconds total every 28 seconds. Immediately before this you should focus on killing the adds, mainly the weak minion adds. If she heals 18k/tic from 2-3 blademaster's so what, she is CCing them (spiderlink causes them to stop attacking) and then she is 1 shotting them anyway.
I think if you look at your DPS against syndryth only you will see why the fight takes so long. Even if you are doing 30k 40k 50k DPS it doesn't matter. That's your total DPS output against everything. How much DPS are you dealing to just syndryth? and compare that to the goal of dealing greater than 12k heal/sec.
edit: I'm gonna see how much pure single target dmg a perma-stealth TR is capable of on mimic and if it's over 10-12k i'm going to give this a go to show you what i'm trying to say.
the 12k heal/sec she still had 36k DPS. I have a log of 10k heal/sec and still 35k DPS. and one where she heals 11k/sec and dps is only 20k DPS.
You are correct that her healing directly proportional to the amount of hp of adds that you aren't removing, but it is capped and it is not proportional to her DPS output. Almost all (66% every run) of her dmg output is her dealing 100% of her add's health to every add left alive, even though they have only 25% health (assuming you only went single target and did not attack the adds at all).
So her DPS is irrelevant. It's all BS and it's not adding to her healing. The only DPS that matters to you is blademasters and mostly due to stun. And the only healing that she does is from spiderlink. I think it's misguided to treat it as 1 giant hp pool. It's a timed event in which only adds which are alive can contribute to her health. Before this their health is meaningless (assuming you can survive/control them) and after this she kills them anyway.
She heals for about 1.5 seconds total every 28 seconds. Immediately before this you should focus on killing the adds, mainly the weak minion adds. If she heals 18k/tic from 2-3 blademaster's so what, she is CCing them (spiderlink causes them to stop attacking) and then she is 1 shotting them anyway.
I think if you look at your DPS against syndryth only you will see why the fight takes so long. Even if you are doing 30k 40k 50k DPS it doesn't matter. That's your total DPS output against everything. How much DPS are you dealing to just syndryth? and compare that to the goal of dealing greater than 12k heal/sec.
edit: I'm gonna see how much pure single target dmg a perma-stealth TR is capable of on mimic and if it's over 10-12k i'm going to give this a go to show you what i'm trying to say.
No, I think I understand what you're saying. You may be right that it is capped at 12k. It just seems odd that her healing would be so irregular. 300k one time, then 600k the next, yet about the same amount of time in between...but it all works out to 12k HP/s. I guess I just don't have that much faith in their programming. I've seen how they tweak powers and feats. That seems quite complicated for them.
I hope your perma-stealth TR does do >12k. I really would like to know how that turns out. I've bumped into other Perma's in ToS and asked them if it was possible and they seemed to think it wasn't because of the rate of heal.
Repel and shield here will probably push up to two-three mobs who are healing her. As soon as she starts healing herself and you see white dots, repel or shield-push them away from the circles, they disappear and she's available for attacking. You want to go full purified set for this and also a CON+INT build. RoE + Ice Knife is one of the options. Another one is DOT of Icy Terrain + CoI which sounds more reasonable. This is possible to do, I've soloed the Syndrith once, but not without some serious effort and proper placement so that mobs don't start healing her from across the map.
The key here is to use Lathander's dew and anything which will increase your stamina regen so that you can move around like crazy around the map. Unfortunately, MoF might have more of an possibility to play this by stacking up AP like insane and by using a lot of Arcane all-around.
You might want to bring a level 30 Fawn as a companion inside and Lliira's Bell just in case something goes wrong. Of course, then you want to use Sudden Storm in a combination with Icy Terrain and adding insta-freeze to the enemies. Sudden Storm will add crazy amounts of aggro.
GL.
True Neutral
Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
Repel and shield here will probably push up to two-three mobs who are healing her. As soon as she starts healing herself and you see white dots, repel or shield-push them away from the circles, they disappear and she's available for attacking. You want to go full purified set for this and also a CON+INT build. RoE + Ice Knife is one of the options. Another one is DOT of Icy Terrain + CoI which sounds more reasonable. This is possible to do, I've soloed the Syndrith once, but not without some serious effort and proper placement so that mobs don't start healing her from across the map.
The key here is to use Lathander's dew and anything which will increase your stamina regen so that you can move around like crazy around the map. Unfortunately, MoF might have more of an possibility to play this by stacking up AP like insane and by using a lot of Arcane all-around.
You might want to bring a level 30 Fawn as a companion inside and Lliira's Bell just in case something goes wrong. Of course, then you want to use Sudden Storm in a combination with Icy Terrain and adding insta-freeze to the enemies. Sudden Storm will add crazy amounts of aggro.
GL.
you've never soloed syndrith. that much is obvious
No, i didn't go full alone on her. That would be the suicide option lol. I entered with a party, but I was the one who was left after she entered the spider mode.
It's just that I was the one left with the spider after the party fell (tried to gear up three people at the time, didn't go really smooth). The similar situation happened to me more than once and with different armor sets.
I went with the Purified Armor set, orb included and it had the purified blac ice enchants with gave some armor, too. I used pure DOTs and repel to push away the mobs which otherwise I couldn't hit. She got healed up near the end up to half of her health whenever I tried to go with HV set. But, yes, I practically killed Syndrith alone. It was the dungeon I hated the most at the beginning and I got my revenge eventually.
Try stacking some Draconic Enchantments or go with legendary armor set, or whatever. They key is to push away mobs from the circles while keeping the DOTs alive constantly. And, yes, without enough power (more than 9k) don't even go there to face her solo.
Either way, I think that a CON build would have the best chances here, however MoF is a much, much better choice for soloing Syndrith because of arcane stacks, entangling force et cetera which can be converted for DOT output.
Think of her as Shores of Tuern boss on epic with occasional nasty pokers with CC and life-steal and pretty much the worst boss all-around :rolleyes:
True Neutral
Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
Comments
Do you think that showing off changes anything?
Not worth to solo this overaged dinosaur dungeons anymore!
Btw I am pretty sure you can solo a lots of thing with TR, GWF and SW as well!
I am asking for CW buff!
Problem?
In some ways you're correct. In other ways, maybe a bit off.
I went back and looked at some ACT parses of group runs of TOS. You are correct that 12k HP is a typical heal rate for Syndryth. You're also correct in describing the mechanism she uses to heal. I was not correct in my assumption of how it worked.
Where you may be a bit off is that her healing can vary pretty widely based on how efficient the group is at killing adds. Here's what I would consider a typical fight with Syndryth:
She heals herself for 12k HP/s. Her DPS is about 15k. The fight takes about 5 minutes. Syndryth is able to steal 18,794.3 HP from an average of 18 allies (minimum 11, max 31) around every 28 seconds.
Here's a run I did with a very, very high DPS group:
She heals herself for 7.3k Hp/s. Her DPS is about 4.5k. The fight takes 68 seconds. Syndryth is able to steal 18,794.3 HP from an average of 11 allies (minimum 8, max of 16) around every 28 seconds.
You can see that how much health Syndryth gets per round of Spiderlink can vary from 150k (8 enemies at 18.7k) to 600k (31 enemies at 18.7k). In the high-DPS run, because she has so many less allies to kill, her DPS plummeted. We killed everything so quickly she had nothing left to kill.
Now compare that to my successful solo fight against her:
She heals herself for ??? HP (...stupid ACT). Her DPS is 38k (I did make note of that before it crashed). The fight takes 20+ minutes.
Her DPS went bonkers compared to what it is typically because she had so many more allies to steal health from that I just couldn't mow down fast enough. That tells me her health steal was probably toward the high end of what she is capable of (600k/28 seconds = 21k HP/s). If not higher.
But, you don't need to take my word for it. Ask Chem. He's parsed many, many dungeon runs and does 25k+ DPS and started this topic because he realized that he just wasn't making any progress burning her health down. My DPS during my 4 hours in ToS was 36k. For most of the time in there that wasn't enough either. It was only at the end that when I went well above that that I could finally wear her health down.
If someone would want to make an uber-tanky build and just cast single-target spells at Syndryth such that their DPS is over 12k while ignoring the blademasters I'd be curious to see the result. But I would bet heavily against their success even if they are able to survive. The problem is you have to view Syndryth and the adds as sharing one large collective health pool. And whatever you don't remove from the pool in the form of adds will eventually go to her.
Now here, more mobs is more healing. ALso when you solo you have to dodge MUCH more which hurts your DPS. 36k DPS is very impressive, honestly, but the healing is really overwhelming. When i tried this i could last a while, but I couldn't get enough damage to outdo her heal, and I guess i was at what? 30k DPS? which is still really good?
When you have a buff or even a teammate or two, it's rather amazing how much difference they make. A good DC or GF and this fight is easily done two man. Solo it's very difficult.
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
You are correct that her healing directly proportional to the amount of hp of adds that you aren't removing, but it is capped and it is not proportional to her DPS output. Almost all (66% every run) of her dmg output is her dealing 100% of her add's health to every add left alive, even though they have only 25% health (assuming you only went single target and did not attack the adds at all).
So her DPS is irrelevant. It's all BS and it's not adding to her healing. The only DPS that matters to you is blademasters and mostly due to stun. And the only healing that she does is from spiderlink. I think it's misguided to treat it as 1 giant hp pool. It's a timed event in which only adds which are alive can contribute to her health. Before this their health is meaningless (assuming you can survive/control them) and after this she kills them anyway.
She heals for about 1.5 seconds total every 28 seconds. Immediately before this you should focus on killing the adds, mainly the weak minion adds. If she heals 18k/tic from 2-3 blademaster's so what, she is CCing them (spiderlink causes them to stop attacking) and then she is 1 shotting them anyway.
I think if you look at your DPS against syndryth only you will see why the fight takes so long. Even if you are doing 30k 40k 50k DPS it doesn't matter. That's your total DPS output against everything. How much DPS are you dealing to just syndryth? and compare that to the goal of dealing greater than 12k heal/sec.
edit: I'm gonna see how much pure single target dmg a perma-stealth TR is capable of on mimic and if it's over 10-12k i'm going to give this a go to show you what i'm trying to say.
No, I think I understand what you're saying. You may be right that it is capped at 12k. It just seems odd that her healing would be so irregular. 300k one time, then 600k the next, yet about the same amount of time in between...but it all works out to 12k HP/s. I guess I just don't have that much faith in their programming. I've seen how they tweak powers and feats. That seems quite complicated for them.
I hope your perma-stealth TR does do >12k. I really would like to know how that turns out. I've bumped into other Perma's in ToS and asked them if it was possible and they seemed to think it wasn't because of the rate of heal.
The key here is to use Lathander's dew and anything which will increase your stamina regen so that you can move around like crazy around the map. Unfortunately, MoF might have more of an possibility to play this by stacking up AP like insane and by using a lot of Arcane all-around.
You might want to bring a level 30 Fawn as a companion inside and Lliira's Bell just in case something goes wrong. Of course, then you want to use Sudden Storm in a combination with Icy Terrain and adding insta-freeze to the enemies. Sudden Storm will add crazy amounts of aggro.
GL.
you've never soloed syndrith. that much is obvious
Maybe he meant the regular version?
It's just that I was the one left with the spider after the party fell (tried to gear up three people at the time, didn't go really smooth). The similar situation happened to me more than once and with different armor sets.
I went with the Purified Armor set, orb included and it had the purified blac ice enchants with gave some armor, too. I used pure DOTs and repel to push away the mobs which otherwise I couldn't hit. She got healed up near the end up to half of her health whenever I tried to go with HV set. But, yes, I practically killed Syndrith alone. It was the dungeon I hated the most at the beginning and I got my revenge eventually.
Try stacking some Draconic Enchantments or go with legendary armor set, or whatever. They key is to push away mobs from the circles while keeping the DOTs alive constantly. And, yes, without enough power (more than 9k) don't even go there to face her solo.
Either way, I think that a CON build would have the best chances here, however MoF is a much, much better choice for soloing Syndrith because of arcane stacks, entangling force et cetera which can be converted for DOT output.
Think of her as Shores of Tuern boss on epic with occasional nasty pokers with CC and life-steal and pretty much the worst boss all-around :rolleyes: