GFs in Epic Shores of Tuern

a9d2f

So I've been running the new skirmish and I can't help wondering: where are all the GFs? I've joined some PUGs on my CW for a week and more than a few times I ended up trying to tank like a GF so the party could finish off the boss. My black ice armor + shield on mastery + teleport will let me live through a few attacks, but I'm a poor substitute.

Is there a reason, other than the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> loot, that I'm not seeing a lot of GFs in there? Deadly ads that one-shot most players and the final boss fight seem tailor-made for GFs.

mfgamesys

I got fed up running it, sorry. You can hire me for some ads though XD.

thestaggy

Holding shift, praying I don't get insta-killed when I release shift for a second to activate a power and drinking potions by the ton for an identification scroll and rank 5 enchants gets old really fast.

inthere23

I run it all the time but mostly I just get invited by friends as soon as i log on. By the time I've come up for air I've done 10 runs in eSOT and eLOL before I've even checked my mail.

Everybody tells me to get on the GF even when i log onto my other 3 alts.

mfgamesys

i have never used a pot in sot. lifesteal + guarded assault ez mode

magiquepurse

inthere23 wrote: »

Everybody tells me to get on the GF even when i log onto my other 3 alts.

I hope the morons still asking for CW nerfs and QQing about "lfm 5 CWs for <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>" see this.

kweassa

magiquepurse wrote: »

I hope the morons still asking for CW nerfs and QQing about "lfm 5 CWs for <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>" see this.

Which actually proves my point.

When the opposition is tough, and survivability isn't simply a matter of AoE DPS/CC spamming, role diversion starts to creep back in. When you can't steamroll a content like bulldozers against an army of cockroaches, then the priority becomes "which classes can help you survive?". At least for that role, GFs and DCs become more appreciated.

magiquepurse

kweassa wrote: »

GFs and DCs become more appreciated.

Which is GOOD. Isn't this what we want?!? Making all classes be in demand? Content that doesn't favor stacking CWs any longer?

Now let's wait for the DC and TR changes and hope they get it right. I personally hope the changes put TR on par with PvE SW and PvE HR damage wise.

lewel555

kweassa wrote: »

When the opposition is tough, and survivability isn't simply a matter of AoE DPS/CC spamming, role diversion starts to creep back in. When you can't steamroll a content like bulldozers against an army of cockroaches, then the priority becomes "which classes can help you survive?". At least for that role, GFs and DCs become more appreciated.

Do you think the devs learned something here? Or is it incidental, and one or two boons later the all-ranged-AOE parties will be back?

vasdamas

Done over 300 runs on my SW, never got a drop of belt/book there. Opened the skirmish on my GF to get draconic shield in the begining of the week, got my shield on the first attempt and decided I do 10 more runs just for fun.

Got belt drop twice from boss , CON and INT. Both times got kicked. Now tell me how is this supposed to be motivating for me? It's way more hard to carry weak party on my GF than on my SW and in the end all I get is a kick? No thanks, endure it alone.

chemboy613

GF rock in this skirmish, really enjoyed playing mine too.

I never PUG though. Always form a group with friends or from legit.

xd108x

It's nice to see that they created a skirmish and dungeon that doesnt just rely on dealing with many adds during boss fights where CWs where often the answer with their excessive amount of control and area dmg, but more how to dealing with the types of damage and attacks during the fight. I did the skirmish yday without a GF or GWF and it certainly is hard work and risky so I could see how having a proper tank keep the boss faced away from group and being able to take the dmg it deals out would help groups a lot. Otherwise it takes even more skill and luck with someone able to keep the boss attention on them, dodge red attacks when they can and the help of a DC to reduce dmg, heal and buff.

djarkaan

They are all PVPing with glyph, ss, kv.

hypervoreian

ESoT is a dangerous business with <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> loot.You see many Gfs suceeding in tanking the boss but you don't know that the dinstance between a flawless sucess and a one death shot wipe is less than 0.3-0.5 secs.If the Gf looses his stamina during any of the big attacks he will be oneshotted nevermind his hp and DR.We are talking about 160k-220k damage here.

it is very frustrating for any GF.And something that the players that don't play Gf don't know.
The boss is cheating on GFs.Cause...:

1)It has a deadly aoe atack immediatelly after Fire breath but with no red marker.It can concur at any given time.And as said if the Gf is out of block or even trying to utilize a power(Iron Warrior,Enforced Threat ,Into the fray) he is dead.
2)Fire breath has an red mark Aoe but....if you are really close to the Garakas,as all Gfs are while tanking....you cannot see the aoe mark.Why?Cause the red zone starts in some feet away from the boss!!! lol.
As a CW or any ranged class you see it clearly but the Gf must have the camera in a spesific ancle to see it.

Add to these:
The continous stress to watch the stamina meter.Combined with Iron warrior refill power time,the pots refilling time, and as said the spesific camera ancle to watch the fire breath aoe and then the non marked aoe that can instant kill you...plus the stress of all the ez mode weezees that think that you have 100k hp and infinite block and will kick you in first opportunity...


And all these for what???For a rank 5 and a scroll.
While any Gf can go to kessell skirmish wear his BI and solo if he wants the whole boss.And he will get 5-6 rank4-5 enchantements ,bI resources,raw BI and a chance for the belt that sells in AH for 100k.

ESot you said?Thanx i 'll pass

Edit:For any GF that might reading this and he is failing in eSot.The most apropriate powers are Iron Warrior ,KV,ITF.And the increased stamina feat slotted.Even then you can be oneshotted if you make one (1) mistake in timing.

demonkyuubi

hypervoreian wrote: »

1)It has a deadly aoe atack immediatelly after Fire breath but with no red marker.It can concur at any given time.And as said if the Gf is out of block or even trying to utilize a power(Iron Warrior,Enforced Threat ,Into the fray) he is dead.
2)Fire breath has an red mark Aoe but....if you are really close to the Garakas,as all Gfs are while tanking....you cannot see the aoe mark.Why?Cause the red zone starts in some feet away from the boss!!! lol.
As a CW or any ranged class you see it clearly but the Gf must have the camera in a spesific ancle to see it.

Even then you can be oneshotted if you make one (1) mistake in timing.

i'm not a gf, but i watch garakas for the visual tells in his attack order.

if everyone is in melee range the attack order is: hand blast ----> 4 sec delay ----> hand blast

---

> fire breath

---

>

if someone is too far away: fire bomb

---

> hand blast ----> fire bomb ----> fire breath

all fire breaths are immediately followed by hand blast. hand blast is best avoided in melee and by walking in a diagonal line around garakas as if there is in invisible diamond surrounding him.

i do agree with you though. 1 mistake and everything is over >.>. hate having to solo/duo him because everyone else died.

hypervoreian

"if everyone is in melee range the attack order is: hand blast ----> 4 sec delay ----> hand blast

---

> fire breath

---

>

if someone is too far away: fire bomb

---

> hand blast ----> fire bomb ----> fire breath

all fire breaths are immediately followed by hand blast. hand blast is best avoided in melee and by walking in a diagonal line around garakas as if there is in invisible diamond surrounding him."

^^
Thanx.i have done ESoT/SoT over 30-35 times yet cause i am always in stress and very near to the boss i could not time exactly his attacks.So immediatelly after hand blast comes fire breath.And after second hand blast 4 secs delay.I ll keep my mind then to exploit these 4 secs (i will tme them as 2 i don't trust anyone lol :P ) to use Iron warrior and to refill my stamina.

As for avoinding i am conq i learned to avoid than block.But everytime i do that i see in my chat window from any cw or HR :
"Pomocy!" "Aiuto!" "Hilfe" "Akcim deniz" "help"! "a L'aide!"

query523

I pugged this scirm on my GF a bit because the que loves the GF and not being delve-dependant you can get in whenever. The thing of it is if there is not a TemptLock or DC the final boss on epic hits harder than you can heal with pots. I mean if a TLock or DC wants to run that all night I'll go do it but without one or the other it can be a real beast. you miss time or hold to long on guard and you can fall behind on HP pretty quick. Especially if you don't have the AP to hit recovery....

marc8219

I am not going to pay to unlock content on my alts unless I absolutely have to and even then I will put it off for awhile so my GF won't be there for a long time.

thestaggy

mfgamesys wrote: »

i have never used a pot in sot. lifesteal + guarded assault ez mode

Then you must play with very good players as well. I fail to believe that you can PUG this Skirmish and not pot. My GF can run CN and not pot. 10% Life Steal, Tactician, SOS, works a treat, but it doesn't help much in ESOT. Half of my problems stem from the zerg mentality that sees the deepz classes race to the next mob or attempt to pull multiple mobs, putting me under duress.

vasdamas

query523 wrote: »

I pugged this scirm on my GF a bit because the que loves the GF and not being delve-dependant you can get in whenever. The thing of it is if there is not a TemptLock or DC the final boss on epic hits harder than you can heal with pots. I mean if a TLock or DC wants to run that all night I'll go do it but without one or the other it can be a real beast. you miss time or hold to long on guard and you can fall behind on HP pretty quick. Especially if you don't have the AP to hit recovery....

That's what you have your fighters recovery for.

godhric

vasdamas wrote: »

That's what you have your fighters recovery for.

I think he already said "Especially if you dont have the AP to hit recovery".. Which most likely to mean fighter's recovery..

vasdamas

godhric wrote: »

I think he already said "Especially if you dont have the AP to hit recovery".. Which most likely to mean fighter's recovery..

Hm, my bad.

Still, with the recovery (stat) I have and with the damage the boss deals to my guard my daily is up 80% time I need it Never felt like I need too many pots in that skirmish that's why the complaint about pots looks weird to me.
Can't say the same about injury kits though, some parties are just too dangerous to use KV xD

rlrobr

a9d2f wrote: »

I've run this with a few GFs from our guild and they don't seem too enthused about ESOT either. Our extremely tanky GF (5k def and loads of hp) can do OK without a DC but I imagine he's burning a lot of pots. The other GF said he had to use a stone of healing to keep his HP up because pots aren't enough without a DC/Temptlock.

I'm sorry to say, but the GFs from your guild don't seem very experienced or well speced or geared. I played eSoT with my GF many times and I've never had to use the stone of health. I don't even have to use fighter's recovery either and I have only slightly over 3K defense with the full draconic armor/weapon set. ESoT is very easy for any GF, way easier than for most other classes.

leillanna

I've pugged this a bunch on my CW and have seen many a GF in the queue. Some are extremely good. They hold, use KV and with these in the group the skirmish is quite doable. On the other hand I've had terribad GF's that couldn't tank a flipping French poodle and they seem to just get melted. I sum this up to in general GF's up until this point never really had to tank anything and most in this game are really really really bad at it. In particular Conquerer specced GF's are just complete fail at *tanking* this skirmish. Not that it's worth tanking anyways, seriously for a rank 5 enchant......I wouldn't tank it.

query523

leillanna wrote: »

I've pugged this a bunch on my CW and have seen many a GF in the queue. Some are extremely good. They hold, use KV and with these in the group the skirmish is quite doable. On the other hand I've had terribad GF's that couldn't tank a flipping French poodle and they seem to just get melted. I sum this up to in general GF's up until this point never really had to tank anything and most in this game are really really really bad at it. In particular Conquerer specced GF's are just complete fail at *tanking* this skirmish. Not that it's worth tanking anyways, seriously for a rank 5 enchant......I wouldn't tank it.

From another thread:

gentlemancrush wrote: »

Not at all. Threat can be mildly confusing. This might be a good chance to shine some light on how threat works.

As far as critters are concerned there are 3 kinds of threat.

• Damage - You gain 1 point of this when you deal 1 point of damage.
• Healing - You gain 1 point of this when you heal an ally for 1 point of damage. This threat is divided by the number of foes you are in combat with. So if I heal an ally for 1000 and there are ten foes, each would get 100.
• Threat - You gain 1 point of this when we use a special command to cause you to generate threat. Many of your powers that generate bonus threat use this, and it should be treated exactly like damage except that you can't see it

Given this, your current threat on a target is pretty simple.

D + H + T = Hate (a shorthand name we use for your threat value).

Now, if you have the most Hate on a target (or are the foe's current target more specifically) your calculation changes slightly.

It becomes (D + H + T) * 1.1 = Hate.

This is what we commonly refer to as the "threshold". When you gain aggro on a mob you immediately gain a 10% threshold that the next person has to surpass before they take threat back from you. Now this is why Mark works the way it does. It gives you the highest threat on the list, and then forces the mob to give you that threshold, which puts you 10% above anyone else. This is why allowing tanks to establish a "threat lead" is a pretty important practice (otherwise you get mobs ping ponging until they have enough threat for that threshold to be meaningful).

It is important to note that Mark actually sets all of your values, rather than adding some amount to get you to the top of the list, so in theory even if I have no threat on a target Mark will still allow me to draw aggro on them, and then keeping it is requisite on me dealing enough Damage+Threat to keep that threshold.

In practice this means that to pull a target off another player, you really need them to stop hitting it momentarily while you build threat, or they will just immediately pull it back and get that 10% threshold on you, putting them in danger.

Hopefully that clarifies threat a little more! Show your tanks some love, let them get threat

Threat is a combination of marks AND damage. A competant conq holds threat better because they do more damage. Basically what you are seeing is people who built GFs for Mod4. In which case the reflect/ turtle build is the easiest to use.

inthere23

leillanna wrote: »

In particular Conquerer specced GF's are just complete fail at *tanking* this skirmish. Not that it's worth tanking anyways, seriously for a rank 5 enchant......I wouldn't tank it.

It's not the conq spec, it's the player. Conq spec can tank fine. Really, any GF spec can tank fine. But the problem is very few in this game know HOW to tank. I've played at least 7 MMO's before this one, and tanking is very similar in all of them. Primarily you get and hold agro, and you need to stay alive when you get it.

Problem with this game is nobody wants to wait for the tank to build agro. If you see CW's running ahead of the group trying to get 1st on the Paingivers, don't blame the GF for not being able to get agro. I can get it most of the time, but it's not easy.

leillanna

inthere23 wrote: »

It's not the conq spec, it's the player. Conq spec can tank fine. Really, any GF spec can tank fine. But the problem is very few in this game know HOW to tank. I've played at least 7 MMO's before this one, and tanking is very similar in all of them. Primarily you get and hold agro, and you need to stay alive when you get it.

Problem with this game is nobody wants to wait for the tank to build agro. If you see CW's running ahead of the group trying to get 1st on the Paingivers, don't blame the GF for not being able to get agro. I can get it most of the time, but it's not easy.

I agree partly here but not fully. I certainly agree a lot of this is a player problem, both on the tanks part and the dpsers part, yet I still think Conq specced tanks are subpar at *tanking* I've never liked the spec as far as a tank goes though since launch. When I ran my GF here I ran a swordmaster/tactician/reflect build and that was before mod 4. It had all the tools I needed to get and keep agro and buff my party. Again, just my opinion though.

snappa0126

Seeing how KV and SoS was nerfed drastically you can expect even less GF's queing for ESoT or ELoL. The nerfs jacked us up horribly for PvE. Now we are easy kills for bosses as we cannot generate AP to use our dailies to save our asses.

kozi001

Acutally with my GWF I can kite SOT boss no problem even if every Pug member died around me.

With GF you need to be skilled and bring a DC.

arinathos

Even with KV and SOS nerf, GF tanking is still relatively easy for ESoT. It's just a matter of getting the timing right. Tank until Garakas does the long pause for his dragon breath cone, step out of the line of fire, recharge either with ITF or with Iron Warrior to increase stamina regeneration rate, or if everything is at full, slap enhanced mark or daily healing, step back in front, rinse, and repeat. You won't do tons of damage yourself, but everyone else will be whomping the hurt on him without needing to dodge his other attacks.

inthere23

snappa0126 wrote: »

Seeing how KV and SoS was nerfed drastically you can expect even less GF's queing for ESoT or ELoL. The nerfs jacked us up horribly for PvE. Now we are easy kills for bosses as we cannot generate AP to use our dailies to save our asses.

Any GF that's an easy kill for any boss in this game and depends on dailies to "save their asses" are probably better off playing another class.