Why should some of us pay more?

marorin2

Hello.

I really enjoy your game and i like to support it, but i have the above question - Why should some of us pay a lot more?

I live in Europe, but my salary is not in eu neither in $, but in local currency. However the price on the currencies your game allows are quite different for me(and for many more ppl i suppose), f.e. 1$ = 1.4 and 1eu=2 of the local currency.

The biggest problem comes when i want to send you my money - i can't choose in what currency to pay - i'm stuck with eu and can't make my payment in $, as your site automatically give me options only in eu. So f.e. 20eu are a lot more than 20 $ for me.

So my question is - why should we pay 40% more(in my case) for absolutely the same thing all other ppl pay, just because we live in different part or why we can't have the option to choose from the available to you currencies - in this case eu and $ ?

ironzerg79

Because it's the law. If you live in the EU, PWE is required by law to charge you in EU.

Unfortunately, this catches some people who are in these weird middle grounds where they use a local currency, but are grouped in with the EU.

EDIT: I have a friend who lives in Turkey, which I believe doesn't use the Euro, but he's forced to pay for things in this game in Euros, which sucks for him.

iambecks1

Isn't it due to VAT? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_value_added_tax

lirithiel

ironzerg79 wrote: »

Because it's the law. If you live in the EU, PWE is required by law to charge you in EU.

Unfortunately, this catches some people who are in these weird middle grounds where they use a local currency, but are grouped in with the EU.

EDIT: I have a friend who lives in Turkey, which I believe doesn't use the Euro, but he's forced to pay for things in this game in Euros, which sucks for him.

Erm no. Originally when I bought zen I was paying in Dollars, which was okay because I live in South Africa. But one day, less than a week after I made my previous purchase, suddenly I was charged in Euro. It has nothing to do with the law as I don't reside anywhere near Europe. I agree that it is HAMSTER that some are forced to pay more than others due to location.

kralmoe

As many ppl do not know: one thing is de EU (European Union) and another Europe.
Not all the European countries are in the EU. The following countries are not in the EU: Albania, Andorra, Belarus, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Croatia, Iceland, Liechtenstein, Macedonia (Former Yugoslav Republic of), Moldova, Monaco, Montenegro, Norway, Russia, San Marino, Serbia, Switzerland, Turkey (small western part), Ukraine, Vatican City

caunsidh

kralmoe wrote: »

As many ppl do not know: one thing is de EU (European Union) and another Europe.
Not all the European countries are in the EU. The following countries are not in the EU: Albania, Andorra, Belarus, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Croatia, Iceland, Liechtenstein, Macedonia (Former Yugoslav Republic of), Moldova, Monaco, Montenegro, Norway, Russia, San Marino, Serbia, Switzerland, Turkey (small western part), Ukraine, Vatican City

Croatia is part of EU, and you forgot to mention Kosovo.

str8slayer

These types of deals are all done by-contract and take into account all applicable laws at the time, PWE/Cryptic has no say in these matters and never did, they get shafted just like you do by these.

You wanna sell virtual stuff in the EU? Then guess what, you're forking over a 20% cut or going to jail.

chrcore

caunsidh wrote: »

Croatia is part of EU, and you forgot to mention Kosovo.

He was listing countries that are NOT in the EU.

ambisinisterr

The "more" you are refering to is the VAT which all EU countries are required to pay regardless of currency used.

Let me repeat that, it doesn't matter if you pay in dirt, the VAT is required to be paid by law.

There's the reason you have to pay more. It has nothing to do with any sort of prejudices. It's law. If you want it to change then you'll have to contact your government officials.

marorin2

The "more" you are refering to is the VAT which all EU countries are required to pay regardless of currency used.

No and i'll explain why.
http://europa.eu/youreurope/business/vat-customs/cross-border/index_en.htm

Selling to consumers
If you sell goods and send them to consumers in another EU country, you need to register there and charge VAT at the rate applicable in that country - unless the total value of your sales to that country in the year falls below the limit set by the country (EUR 35 000 or EUR 100 000).

So even if the sales for my country in this case are over 35/100K eu, they'll still charge me just the VAT in my country which is 20%, or to speak in numbers 10$+20%=12$, which still is a lot more cheaper than 10 eu.

Also most games have lower prices in eu than in $ for many reasons, but the main one is - not to charge more(or at least not too much over) the players that must pay in eu, as 1eu >1 $ everywhere in the world.

EDIT: Also i just checked and i'm not charged VAT, as it seem that the sells for my country are less than the mentioned above, so i must pay just the price PWE set.

ambisinisterr

You are paying the VAT.

Also currency has a value. You pay the same value no matter what currency you use. It has nothing to do with the company deciding to let one country pay more or less or at least is not the case here.

When you pay for $20 dollars in Zen you pay 15.87 Euro plus the VAT rounded to an even number. However since the prices do not change daily unlike the currency value they charge an estimated similar value which may be more or less than the conversion rate at the present day.

I am not guessing. I am relaying information.
You are paying the VAT. Cut and Dry.

That is the answer. You are paying taxes.

ambisinisterr

For the record, 10 Eu is $12.60.
$12 is 9.52 Eu.

Again, the numbers are rounded to an even number. It's not a day to day conversion.
It's a rough estimate of the conversion including the VAT.

caunsidh

chrcore wrote: »

He was listing countries that are NOT in the EU.

Exactly. He listed Croatia as a non-EU country, but in fact it is in the EU, and he did not enlist Kosovo, which is in Europe, but not in the EU.

Please read more carefully before posting your reply.

P.S. Sorry for the offtopic.

shadevp

caunsidh wrote: »

Exactly. He listed Croatia as a non-EU country, but in fact it is in the EU, and he did not enlist Kosovo, which is in Europe, but not in the EU.

P.S. Sorry for the offtopic.

Provided that you recognize Kosovo as a separate state instead of what it really is - a genuine part of Serbia.

ryugasirius

shadevp wrote: »

Provided that you recognize Kosovo as a separate state instead of what it really is - a genuine part of Serbia.

It is recognized by the U.S. (where PWE has its headquarters), thus for all purposes of this thread, Kosovo is an independent state (states are recognized by other states, not by individuals).

emilemo

You in Bulgaria OP ?

marorin2

I'm Emo

Thank you ambisinisterr for your response, but most of all thank you for the link to the thread.

I think i found my answer:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wadzio - Lost City View Post
Ok, I totally understand Your explanations, just 1 thing. Why dont You compare the currencies? I mean 1 EURO is more than 1 USD, right? So why dont You change in ur system the value of charges?

Lets say 50 USD = 5300 zen and 50 EURO = 6500 zen? VAT in Europe depending on the product is between 7% and 23%. PWE is the one setting the prices and as long as I understand that You are willing to follow the international law and You dont want to pay the VAT fee, then why You are not only making the custommers to pay the VAT, but You are also making the profit out of it? If You calc and compare the price of gold for European players is higher and it has nothing to do with law, but the way You exchange the currencies.

Thank You.
If you can do me a huge favor and write an email to our support staff with your above comments, I can forward that information to the proper people for evaluation. I cannot guarantee a change but what I can do for you is give you my personal guarantee that I will physically in-person take your email, print it out, and bring it forward to those that make these decisions. Again, we are aware that changes may need to be made and currently the only change is removing Perfect World Entertainment from paying the VAT fees for all European players.

Sadly isn't satisfying at all to say at least.

robingbrown

ambisinisterr wrote: »

You are paying the VAT.
I am not guessing. I am relaying information.
You are paying the VAT. Cut and Dry.

That is the answer. You are paying taxes.

I found the relevant piece of legislation: http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/taxation/vat/how_vat_works/e-services/article_1610_en.htm#a1

But is does mean that there are a couple of other questions that really should be answered clearly:

Firstly, are PWE paying the taxes they collect to the EU?
Secondly, why are PWE charging EU VAT on people who are not in the EU and where are those taxes paid to?

For those in the EU I recommend getting a 'best rate' prepaid currency card to avoid excessive bank charges on top of VAT. I got mine here (by clicking on this link and signing up for a card you will be waived a fee and I will get a bonus) or use voucher code 'rgeur'. You can get Euro and Dollar cards so with a bit of bickering with PWE support you should be able to change your billing to dollars as their system currently uses some sort of simple IP look up to determine which currency to charge in and it is prone to error.

lewstelamon01

Nevertheless, this is considered to be a billing and support issue. If you have any further questions please direct them to our support website and they can assist you further. If you have any concerns about your country being subject to VAT please contact the tax or revenue office in your country. Thank you for your understanding.