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State of HR
So, HR came out around Mod2 and has seen some rocky starts and changes. I kinda want to summarize how I see HR after 9 mos of playing HR (Been in the game since beta 3, so I have played other classes, too).
Archery: conceivably the pve DPS path. Also, it's my path - has been since day 1. Honestly, while there have been some nice new feats since the mod4 change (and I'm thankful for those), not much has changed. The numbers are still roughly the same, maybe slightly higher. If an HR wants to do any dps to keep a place on the party leaderboard, s/he is left to a handful of powers, all AoE. On top of it all, working at max dps, we don't come close to SW or CW when they're played properly.
Combat: the beasts of pvp. Not much more can be said, though I do feel and get the sentiment that they may or may not be the favourite of the devs - most of the gear is stacked towards them, especially since mod3. I can't vouch for how they handle in pve (possibly decently), but they have excellent survivability and can be masters of single-target play.
Trapper: the original intention of HR. Utilises all three aspects of rangers in D&D - ranged combat, melee combat, and "traps" - or in NW, roots. Played well, they can keep themselves alive and, for those who specialised in hybrid builds and CD watching before Mod4, deal substantial damage. This path takes the most effort, but can be the most rewarding. Unfortunately, the CC is relatively weak and not much use beyond solo play.
In closing, by itself, the class has not much going for it. At its base point, it has neither the DPS nor HP and what CC it had was, frankly, better before mod4 (I prefer the old constricting shot - 3 short interrupt/stuns - over an AoE root). Mod 4 helped provide some assistance for those wanting to specialise rather than run a hybrid as min/maxing and class dynamics entailed prior to the update; it allowed archery to be more dps-focused and combat to survive better and, unfortunately, also tailored the pathways to pve or pvp only, respectively.
Lastly, with all the calls for HR nerfs due to pvp, us few pve archers are finding our relevance threatened. I know i only became relevant once my guild rank went up and my GS hit 15k. Perhaps the story is different for others of you - and I hope it is, but I worry for the future of the class as it is so varied in its applications but appears to be rated solely by one single build/playstyle.
In short, outside of pvp, HR is comparatively scrub-ish unless extensive time and gearing is undertaken and then it only rises to middle of the ranks with no true party role (dps/buff/debuff/tank/heal), while, in pvp, it holds its own but has been called for nerfs, further weakening the pve role of the class, due to its dual nature.
Archery: conceivably the pve DPS path. Also, it's my path - has been since day 1. Honestly, while there have been some nice new feats since the mod4 change (and I'm thankful for those), not much has changed. The numbers are still roughly the same, maybe slightly higher. If an HR wants to do any dps to keep a place on the party leaderboard, s/he is left to a handful of powers, all AoE. On top of it all, working at max dps, we don't come close to SW or CW when they're played properly.
Combat: the beasts of pvp. Not much more can be said, though I do feel and get the sentiment that they may or may not be the favourite of the devs - most of the gear is stacked towards them, especially since mod3. I can't vouch for how they handle in pve (possibly decently), but they have excellent survivability and can be masters of single-target play.
Trapper: the original intention of HR. Utilises all three aspects of rangers in D&D - ranged combat, melee combat, and "traps" - or in NW, roots. Played well, they can keep themselves alive and, for those who specialised in hybrid builds and CD watching before Mod4, deal substantial damage. This path takes the most effort, but can be the most rewarding. Unfortunately, the CC is relatively weak and not much use beyond solo play.
In closing, by itself, the class has not much going for it. At its base point, it has neither the DPS nor HP and what CC it had was, frankly, better before mod4 (I prefer the old constricting shot - 3 short interrupt/stuns - over an AoE root). Mod 4 helped provide some assistance for those wanting to specialise rather than run a hybrid as min/maxing and class dynamics entailed prior to the update; it allowed archery to be more dps-focused and combat to survive better and, unfortunately, also tailored the pathways to pve or pvp only, respectively.
Lastly, with all the calls for HR nerfs due to pvp, us few pve archers are finding our relevance threatened. I know i only became relevant once my guild rank went up and my GS hit 15k. Perhaps the story is different for others of you - and I hope it is, but I worry for the future of the class as it is so varied in its applications but appears to be rated solely by one single build/playstyle.
In short, outside of pvp, HR is comparatively scrub-ish unless extensive time and gearing is undertaken and then it only rises to middle of the ranks with no true party role (dps/buff/debuff/tank/heal), while, in pvp, it holds its own but has been called for nerfs, further weakening the pve role of the class, due to its dual nature.
Carpe Jugulum
Sharra Del'Armgo - SW Trapper Hybrid HR
Ogghra Bar'Ghuzumn - MI Scoundrel TR
Vænna Thrymskjöldr - IV Protector GF
Sharra Del'Armgo - SW Trapper Hybrid HR
Ogghra Bar'Ghuzumn - MI Scoundrel TR
Vænna Thrymskjöldr - IV Protector GF
Post edited by ikapamk on
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Comments
I'm top on Paingiver with many of the SoT skirmishes I do on my SW archer, although I get blown out of the water by some CWs and SWs as well as the odd GWF. I suppose my Combat HR could do better in pve if I went SW but I respecced to PF for pvp purposes (even though I haven't set foot in pvp for a month) although the damage on there too is an improvement on Mod 3, just not nearly close to Archery tree.
Trapper I haven't tried and I don't think I ever will. I preferred the hybrid style pre-Mod 4, it was the most fun the class had to offer for me. The new tree doesn't even come close to that. And the CC is rubbish, just as it is for the class in general.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
we are the new TR. We have the single target right now. Its higher than Sw in my opinion as I always cut down the difference with Sw after that TT burst they get in paingiver when we reach true singletarget scenarios where they cant abuse TT, like catch up and even surpass them. and im Stormwarden not pathfinder.
and with that we have pretty good aoe, i do find archery got a pretty good buff dpswise compared to mod 3. I dont have any trouble at all staying up in the paingiver charts maybe not first with the exceptionally good cw and sws, but not far behind and i myself am not that geared(r8s). but it is determined a bit instance, as some are pretty good for us (LOL MC VT) but we get **** on in stuff like cn wth so many adds and such a low target cap. What really helped us in regards to cw is that most of their dps now comes from sustained damage (procs) and they lost burst, so it allows us to get more damage in before stuff explodes. SO in the end we are pretty much better off between our own dps buffs and their nerf to burst.
another big pro people fail to see, aspect of the pack.... its a huuuge party dps buff if u play to keep its uptime high (btw get urself a blinkdog they are gooood). and well fox cunning comes in handy in a few places stuff hits exceptionally hard (cogh LOL SOT).
We also do a very good job in single target tanking through our high dodge count + both foxes imunities as we tend to keep them pretty much still and not moving around the **** area. Personally hate when a cw, sw or badly played gwf takes bosses agro and just haves him running around everywhere except where our rain is falling. I personally prefer to loose my 25% critchance, tank him but keep him under my rain + thorn.
So i basically see, and whish more people saw even though i really dont have trouble inding parties, is that a Hr does fit one nice role now.... striker. Basically we fill in Trs role back when they were usefull and had insane singletarget, tanking and dpsing the boss. But adding a ton more of aoe dps for trash part + a very good buff for everyone.
@Ximae - I don't know much about the combat build, but it sounds like you've got a good setup there for pve, which is something I haven't heard of existing. So, congrats! I know I'd be interested in seeing your build, if nothing else. Also, I agree about combat HR being the new TR. We have all the single-target focus and damage that TR used to have back in vanilla with a little extra survivability. I didn't mention it here, but I was talking with a few of my guildies about how HR and, to a degree, SW, has made other classes slightly irrelevant with its variety of drastically distinct playstyles.
Sharra Del'Armgo - SW Trapper Hybrid HR
Ogghra Bar'Ghuzumn - MI Scoundrel TR
Vænna Thrymskjöldr - IV Protector GF
**** CWS.
no no, im archer i thought it was obvious when i mentionesd the 25% crit chance and big single target.... i just dont shy out going melee range since i used to play sort of hybrid b4 mod4. Like i said i prefer to stick near team mates with aspect of the pack, but at 20 feet from enemies if possible, I prefer a 25% boost to crit with over +25% to damage from ca (and boosting allies damage from ca) than the crit and some 8-10%increase to dmg, like i prefer the mobs/boss to sit under my roa if it costs me my critchance
What I would like to see is for rangers to retain their damage abilities but also to have non-terrible buffs. We have buffs! yes. Absolutely pathetic healing which was better when there was nature tree and you used the tier2 armor set but now that's gone, oh yaaay I can give stacks of 2% mitigation, then a bunch of nothing. Fox's cunning is actually pretty good in some of the boss battles, but not enough to make me want to play a ranger.
I'm a Combat HR now if you hadnt guessed from the above, But I did use archery for some fun also. I noticed while leveling that the playstyle I enjoyed as a HR is how I felt my rogue should be been during leveling (combat tree), the quick movements and high mobility is amazing and feels both satisfying and rewarding. Now that I can read my combat logs I see that although piercing damage can be huge, my opinion on it has changed a bit. I used to think it was just blatantly overpowered but Now I feel it just needs toning down as compared to the archery Capstone even, its more powerful and reliable source of damage. I can understand the need for it currently, as when I rolled meele without it, my damage was pitiful at best, but just 5 feat points into it can turn you into a absolute dps beast.
Trapper, I have no comment on, I havent used it yet. I've only focussed on archery and combat.
Edit : Will write up more when I'm at home, as I want to read further into feats. and the ranged/meele skill of each power.
Drunken Goose of MidNight Express. - 3.3k Paladin , 3.6k GWF , 3.1k GF,
@rversant - re:combat HR as the new TR - I totally agree with you. my 1st toons was a pve TR, who is now almost obsolete.
Sharra Del'Armgo - SW Trapper Hybrid HR
Ogghra Bar'Ghuzumn - MI Scoundrel TR
Vænna Thrymskjöldr - IV Protector GF
Exactly, Doing anything with my TR now feels like an effort, its just slow and boring, you either sit in stealth and spam duelist flurry, occasionally dodging in between stealth (if you're not going perma lol) or you sit back and spam knives in stealth. A rogue should dash around and hit fast. while using stealth as an initiation at most for a burst of bonus damage or as a quick few seconds to confuse your opponant mid fight, I'd almost make stealth their shift and have it drain like sprint, giving them CC immunity and invisibility while active, but then they'd need a new class mechanic tab skill..
Drunken Goose of MidNight Express. - 3.3k Paladin , 3.6k GWF , 3.1k GF,
Sharra Del'Armgo - SW Trapper Hybrid HR
Ogghra Bar'Ghuzumn - MI Scoundrel TR
Vænna Thrymskjöldr - IV Protector GF
yeah its a shame that when they made the changes to the class this module they overlooked the melee buffs that were even lackluster with the nature spec...... Throw caution and fox cunning are nice but besides them the rest are pretty useless.....
actually ouw best party buff, aspect of the pack (probably one of the best in the game) comes from a class feature...
That's because when someone does use it on you the CC is negligible. After tenacity and resistances kick in the effect of Hindering/Binding/Constricting is unnoticeable. We no longer have any form of (reliable) CC which makes the class more boring to play.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
+1
The trapper build is alot more fun (imho) and can require alot more attention to build per individual player style. I was already at lvl60 with a 12k+gs when the trapper path was released, so PVE was kinda easy (yet fun) from the get-go. And the 'trap' effects work in PVE. I still use constricting arrow/slash but mostly because of the charge of CA.
Previous to the 'tyranny' mod, PVP was still pretty fun and I'd only get my butt handed to me by the bruisers. Now with the control/stun effects all I do is get frozen/suspended and then a giant iceberg falls on my head. It's really discouraging when this happens outside of my range - even with Falcon maxed out.
The class is Ranger, doesn't it make sense to have that the longest ranged class?
It also sucks when somebody lays a control effect on you after you've already done a Marauders escape/charge. Technically, we got the move off first, but we still get controlled due to range or aoe.
I guess the Elven Enchant is supposed to mitigate these effects, but I haven't tried that out yet.