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Solution: Red glyphs! How to balance without over-nerf!
ayroux
Member Posts: 4,271 Arc User
So I have been chewing on this red glyph thing for a LONG time. Blues were FAR too OP and were nerfed. I DONT think the solution to Red Glyphs is to do the same thing as Blue.
EDITING OP:
Solution is REALLY simple: REMOVE DAMAGE from these enchants.
RED = ARP bonus for 20 seconds
BLUE = DEF bonus for 20 seconds
GREEN = DEflect for 20 seconds
BLACK = Crit for 20 seconds
Is that not VERY strong overload already?
EDITING OP:
Solution is REALLY simple: REMOVE DAMAGE from these enchants.
RED = ARP bonus for 20 seconds
BLUE = DEF bonus for 20 seconds
GREEN = DEflect for 20 seconds
BLACK = Crit for 20 seconds
Is that not VERY strong overload already?
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Also multiple things that make you TAKE damage procs enchants yet dont proc offensive glyphs.
So the offensive (red) one SHOULD potentially deal more damage than the defensive ones that are built around receiving damage (Blue). Maybe Blue needs something changed - could do the same thing here, next 20 hits cause the attacker to take 600 damage.
Black ones on the other hand dont need this as they are already capped out at 3 stacks - so they can stay.
ALL glyphs need to respect DR tho
CRAZY MIKE - 14.6k PvE CW
Backbone - 16.7k PvP HR
[SIGPIC]http://i59.tinypic.com/s3hts7.png[/SIGPIC]
The change you are suggesting won't really change anything in that respect since it still guarantees an extra 12k (minus the DR, I agree with you on that) damage every minute so they can still build themselves as tanky as possible and deal good damage to others. That stacking of proc damage and DoT is just getting silly at this point. Why not change it to something like you deal x% more damage for x seconds every minute (something getting away from guaranteed proc damage, doesn't have to be what I said).
Sharra Del'Armgo - SW Trapper Hybrid HR
Ogghra Bar'Ghuzumn - MI Scoundrel TR
Vænna Thrymskjöldr - IV Protector GF
Remove them completely from PvP.
They're broken, they're overpowred, they're a consumables which makes them annoying to use, and they're even a bigger pain to play against.
They also turn the Grim & Profound sets into being completely useless, because in a 1v1 a profound user has slim chances against an overload set user. With the addition of those glyphs, let's list the useless sets right now: 3 T1 sets, 3 T2 sets, All the Grim/Profound PvP sets, the hard to get Sharandar and Dread ring sets... New tier: Useless set.
Now let's list the "useful" sets:
Draconic - Which will now be called a T1 set, AND...
Black Ice - Which will now be called a T2 set.
Unlike Tenes or Emblem, there is no investment that needs to be kept somewhat viable. These are items most people afford.
Classes already have lots of damage as we speak, even against BiS 20K+ GS PvP chars. Unmitigated, unavoidable damage? Check. 20-30K Icy Rays, Ice Knives, IBS, Savage, Bull Charge, Anvil, WoB, SE? Check. 2-8K Storm Spell procs? Check.
Enough damage as it is. Off with the glyphs.
Damge based on percentage of proc source (maybe something along the lines of 30% of the source) - in no case the proc damage outperforms the source damage
Respects any type of mitigation at face value - if target immune he is immune, if target dodges, it's a dodge
Damage does not proc with indirect damage source such as DoTs or other proc damage - only with direct applied damage
Above 3 rules observed, and its fine...
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
This will fix the gf class problem with them, but what about cw, tr and hr who can kill anyone in seconds ? The tr using these can deal 25-30k dmg with ONE at-will attack and hr can deal up to 100k with just dot.
Glyphs need a nerf or to be removed. No one NEEDS them and they don't balance anything.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I agree that glypth in current state should go away. They are pretty useless for pve but overpowered for pvp. And fixing "reflected damage not triggering glypth" is still not a fix of problem.
It is like "fixing" HRs profound "heal on deflect" form "fixing deflect triggering out of blue even out of fight" as it should be - to "add 1 sec cooldown on trigger" as it is now. Did not solve problem just nerfed profound set completely.
So if they will ever fix it - it will ICD.
So I dont think thats the solution, but what can be a solution is again, rather than giving it an ICD, just give a "buff" that adds the procs to the next either: 20 attacks, or 20 hits taken.
They need to respect DR and Tenacity as well.
To the person who said they would still be "OP" because its 12k daamge. Its actually 12k PRE-DR/Tenacity that also cant be affected by ARP (much like weapon enchants) so the 12k damage would be nerfed over 50% down to 6k damage over time. I dont think that unreasonable in PVP when most PVPers have over 40k HP and a ton of regen.
I see that as really the only way to fix the enchants. I think they should be allowed however definitely need to respect DR and definitely need to be changed. I like the 20 stacks idea (each attack or hit received consumes 1 stack and procs) because it allows them to still be strong without being TOO OP.
The reason I said it won't change much is literally because it won't chance much. Red dragon glyphs will still be the end all, be all, if it guarantees to deal 12k damage (minus the DR, as I already said that I agree with you there, all glyphs should respect DR) since it has the highest GUARANTEED damage potential. My point is to try and get away from guaranteed auto-damage no matter what hits the enemy for something else since its getting into the realm of complete bull fecal matter and it seems like the Devs are going to keep going in that direction for future stuff.
An easy solution could just be to REMOVE the damage aspects from these glyphs. I mean they grant 800 stat points for 20 seconds.... What more do you want?!
Maybe THATS the simple solution. Remove the "damage from attacks" and just make
RED - 800 ARP for 20 seconds
BLUE - 800 defense for 20 seconds
BLACK - 800 Critical Strike
GREEN - 800 Deflect for 20 seconds....
WHY do they have to damage?
The greater purified and corrupt enchants last 8 seconds + added buff. So.... Even these 800 stats for 20 seconds would be an INCREASE from those?!
This idea is MUCH better. Glyphs remain good, but stop being OP.
I agree on that then, as I said to an extent here:
Alternatively, disable the use of overload enchantments in PvP.
Mod 12.5 PvP Power/Crit/Arp Optimization
Youtube channel (PvE/PvP)
Nerf HR CW GF or buff DC GWF TR SW.
Certain classes get auto-damage and other classes have to earn damage. Glyphs just shine a light on an already apparent gap in balance. They wouldn't be a problem if classes were balanced otherwise.
Enforce rainbow parties in PvP ---- 10v10 PvP ----
I gotta agree. If there were balance between classes, glyphs wouldn't be that serious problem. GWF barely has any chances against HR despite former wearing glyphs or not, while HR easily destroys GWFs without glyphs and they only make it a little bit faster.
Theres no way they are going to remove these from the game, and they shouldn't because we need powerful glyphs to make the draconic sets worth while and BI sets worth feeding all the time (those sets suck without them, PvE wise.)
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
You still have the older Black Ice overloads, which are moderately powerful and balanced. The CW Corrupted set has decent PvE stats as well, even the Purified one, which allows you to into CW tank-mode with 40K HP and 2000 Life Steal, which at the moment is enough to solo almost all content, with a decent spec.
So the BI sets/older overloads were already good, there was NO NEED for the new items to be so much more powerful.
When they introduce new items, they should also stop and THINK "What for? Why do we need to put these in?"
Because we have no raid, no PvE content needing the glyphs, CN is still the most challenging dungeon after more than a year.
So the glyphs make no sense at all.
on the otherhand if u guys freakout so much about the damage component about them change them to more usefull stats (friggin diminishing everywhere already)
something like
arp = 3% defense debuff
crit rating = 3% crit chance
power = 6% dmg buff (or keep the power and add some % of lifesteal or incoming healing)
deflect = 3% deflect chance
defense = 3% DR
if u remove the extra effects they become way worse than BI simply because they last a 4th of their combat time.
^+1. We don't need this OP **** that promotes skill-less gameplay. Neither for PvP, nor PvE.
Damge based on percentage of proc source (maybe something along the lines of 30% of the source) - in no case the proc damage outperforms the source damage
Respects any type of mitigation at face value - if target immune he is immune, if target dodges, it's a dodge
Damage does not proc with indirect damage source such as DoTs or other proc damage - only with direct applied damage
Extra source of damage, in some cases even bigger damage than the current incarnation, but respects defenses, does not do that bullshi* proccing, doesn't proc on DoTs or any indirect damage source, so it won't tick with Plaguefire, not with the bullchi* Careful Bullchi* or Piercing Bullchi*... or Assailchi* or etc etc..
Only with direct damage that has landed square, it adds a certain percentage bonus damage. So if you can land a big hit, it rewards you more -- if you do the safe approach and just riddle the enemy with teeny tiney trash damage, no more "Oh, that's 10 trash damage = 6,000 extra damage for you!" HAMSTER. If you do tiney damage, it adds tiney bonus.
Still useful, no unmitigated HAMSTER, rewards hard-to-hit, heavy, slow attacks, no particular reward for dealing easy and safe repeated puny damage. Problem fixed.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
And would make White Dragon Glyph at least somewhat appetizing with its +800 Power.