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Back to DnD please
tomiotar
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 227 Arc User
Im a kinda new player (ive started playing about 4 months ago) and im finding myself with some extremly shocking things. After this time ive played im just not finding a proper reason to this game being a part of the DnD family. On a "Dungeon and dragon" game what the most important thing about them is include on the name (that is doing dungeon and killing dragons while u progress, learn and make ur toon stronger) but rigth now on the current status of the games u get no profit doing dungeons and dragons are just mobs with higher HP that get melted down in a few seconds and that they can be killed using basically no strategy.
So lets move step by step:
1) About dragons: Dragons on each game are the hardest figth u get, they are supposed to be wise, good at spell casting and formidable opponent at close combat. In this game the dragons are incredible dumb, they just roar, then they jump into battle always at the same spot and they even mark on red where they are planning to strike. Their spells are easilly avoided because u know where not to stand and at close combat even wizzard and warlock can get close without to be insta death. On correspondance to that they appear to be rigth out from the eggs because when u kill them u find out they were bringing nothing with them, just a few coins that not even a NPC is going to give u anything worth it with them. So now thats the situation, se what can we do about it? First off dont let a dragon figth to be a easy figth, if u figthing a dragon no red mark should appear on the ground, if u guys think thats too rough at least make spawn 2 mobs (archers, GF or GWF cultist) for each char on the instances when the dragon loose 25%, 50% and 75%. I would prefer to figth smart dragons instead of well protected ones but those 2 options are easily to implement on the current game and they can make a dragon figth as the way they supposed to be. Clerics will have time to heal and resurect, GF will have time to get agro and help the players and dps will have to play smart instead of just stand on one position and shoot till the dragon dies. Before people start jumping over me with their forks pointing to my neck logically a smart or well protected dragon will have a better treasure, using the system already implemented u should get a prize proportional to ur help on the battle, so if u get a basic enounter complete u get a peridot with odds on getting a lesser reso stone and if u get a great success u get aqua, reso or flawless saphire with odds like 50%, 40% and 10%. Basically no more cheap dragons but they shouldnt be easy either.
2) About Dungeons: Rigth now my main toon is an HR with 16k gs and when i look at the loot table for the different dungeons i find nothing that is worth farming. The main reason for me to create this post was that rigth now i have the scrolls and sigils to unlock the new dungeon but when i checked the possible prizes i realize that spending the sigils on that is going to just make the things slower for me, as there is nothing worth getting from them that i cant get somewhere else or that it worth getting. I totally love the new artifact weapon and belts, but the dragon sets are so bad that i just cant imagine anyone that have the GS score to enter there and that at same it could be interested on getting it. On other hand u can get the weapon and belts from the skirmish that is much faster (ive got 2 gems from the non-epic skirmish on the first 4 days Ive unlock it) than doing a dungeon, and considering that is a drop with a very low chance to get the best way to get it is doing ton of basic skirmish instead of doing the dungeon. That fact that is more profitable an easy skirmish than a hard epic dungeon goes so against the DnD philosphy that i just cant understand how we reached this point. The most obvious thing to do here is known and discussed over and over ton of threads, the chances to get the good prizes should be increased by a lot. Is just not possible that best way to get my boon unlock is doing ton of dailies during near a month instead of going to the dungeon that is supposed to drop it and at same time that the boon unlock is by far the best prize and only thing worth farming (u can farm belts easier on the skirmish) from the dungeon. On this module is not much u can do to make the new dungeon worth getting, basically the boon unlock drop rate should be increased to something like 25% chance to get to make worth the shot to do the dungeon instead of just doing boring dailies. But even this is a basic patch, the root problem remain the same and its that the dungeon on general are not worth doing them. For that reason i think that the easiest way to fix this is to give the proper reward to the proper dungeon, basically if u do a T1 epic dungeon u get for sure one opal at the end, if u make T2 epic dungeon u get 2 opals and if u do valindra, malabog or the new dungeon u get 3 opals. This way u get an epic reward from an epic dungeon and u can get something that u can even use urself to refine ur set or just sell for coins, at same time it can fix the "problem" of the dungeons that are just partially finnished because its considered that last boss just dont worth the effort. What im trying to say over and over is that in a DnD game doing dungeons HAS to be profitable, always, not if u lucky, always. It has just no sense that a lot of elite mobs + 3 bosses are warding a chest with basically nothing on it. Keeping the RNG on the drops its ok as u cant be sure it will have excactly what u want for all the classes, but at least if u didnt got what u looking for at least u should get something that worth ur effort.
3) about campaigns: Something that really scared me from the last module it was the introduction of the insta complete campaigns products at zen store. At the beginning ive tougth "who would be that dumb to pay money for NOT playing?" the whole idea of paying in order to not have to play for me it was just crazy as ive tougth it just have no sense, but as most of people in here i create my warlock too, reached lvl60 and find me again going to sharandar. This dailies systems, filled with things that are made to stop u from progressing and annoy u till the point that u prefer to pay instead of play is just wrong. I know that i will not go further the 2nd boon on that toon just because i will not pay to not play (ive already charged like 200 dollars on this game but always to help me to play, not to avoid playing) and the whole sharandar campaing is extremly boring, really long and minimal profit. The tirany of the dragon campaign is a lot better in terms that u get the option to get the best weapon and those extremly usefull dragon hoard enchants, on the dread legion campaign u can see progress every day and even after u finnish with all in there, its still profitable doing the mini dungeon every day, but sharandar is like just a big no. At the news page i could see they are announcing the next module and i have no clue what they planning to do, but if the devs are willing to listen what i could ask for a campaing is to make it a lot more dinamical, reduce the number of quest but make them harder. Even when on the past 2 module the new sets just didnt bring any improvement against the old ones in terms of PVE, the sets people use are just too overpowered for the content making the dailies extremly boring as u have just no challenge. If u want to do dailies to control how fast people progress just make it that the whole campaign progress is rewarded by just 1 daily dungeon, but not one easy dungeon that everyone can solo it in 5 minutes, make a dungeon that u need an squad and cooperative work so u will progress together with friends and playing properly ur class, instead of just slaugthering everything on sigth before they know what it hit them.
I know that ive wrote like a book with all this but i think that ive tried to be constructive and providing easy implementable solution to the problems instead of just saying "everything is wrong, the doom day is comming". Im the kind of people that finnish baldurs gate, icewind dale and nverwinter multiple times, with multiple classes, multiple squads combination but each single time extremly planned from the beginning, knowing what i was looking for and i know that im not the only one that clicked the install button for this game because i did all that and recognized this game name. Rigth now i do like many things but im extremly
on many other things, i do know that this game is a lot more focus on casual players than on players that actually "plan their chars" but i think it shouldnt be hard to reach an intermediate points with everyone getting what they looking for, after all this game still have the dungeon and dragon logo and is sponsored by the wizards 
.
One last thing, i ask the mods to keep this thread on General Discussion. I know many of the things could easily goes to gameplay, but i created the post for "general discussion" of the current content and thinking about the future and where this game goes.
So lets move step by step:
1) About dragons: Dragons on each game are the hardest figth u get, they are supposed to be wise, good at spell casting and formidable opponent at close combat. In this game the dragons are incredible dumb, they just roar, then they jump into battle always at the same spot and they even mark on red where they are planning to strike. Their spells are easilly avoided because u know where not to stand and at close combat even wizzard and warlock can get close without to be insta death. On correspondance to that they appear to be rigth out from the eggs because when u kill them u find out they were bringing nothing with them, just a few coins that not even a NPC is going to give u anything worth it with them. So now thats the situation, se what can we do about it? First off dont let a dragon figth to be a easy figth, if u figthing a dragon no red mark should appear on the ground, if u guys think thats too rough at least make spawn 2 mobs (archers, GF or GWF cultist) for each char on the instances when the dragon loose 25%, 50% and 75%. I would prefer to figth smart dragons instead of well protected ones but those 2 options are easily to implement on the current game and they can make a dragon figth as the way they supposed to be. Clerics will have time to heal and resurect, GF will have time to get agro and help the players and dps will have to play smart instead of just stand on one position and shoot till the dragon dies. Before people start jumping over me with their forks pointing to my neck logically a smart or well protected dragon will have a better treasure, using the system already implemented u should get a prize proportional to ur help on the battle, so if u get a basic enounter complete u get a peridot with odds on getting a lesser reso stone and if u get a great success u get aqua, reso or flawless saphire with odds like 50%, 40% and 10%. Basically no more cheap dragons but they shouldnt be easy either.
2) About Dungeons: Rigth now my main toon is an HR with 16k gs and when i look at the loot table for the different dungeons i find nothing that is worth farming. The main reason for me to create this post was that rigth now i have the scrolls and sigils to unlock the new dungeon but when i checked the possible prizes i realize that spending the sigils on that is going to just make the things slower for me, as there is nothing worth getting from them that i cant get somewhere else or that it worth getting. I totally love the new artifact weapon and belts, but the dragon sets are so bad that i just cant imagine anyone that have the GS score to enter there and that at same it could be interested on getting it. On other hand u can get the weapon and belts from the skirmish that is much faster (ive got 2 gems from the non-epic skirmish on the first 4 days Ive unlock it) than doing a dungeon, and considering that is a drop with a very low chance to get the best way to get it is doing ton of basic skirmish instead of doing the dungeon. That fact that is more profitable an easy skirmish than a hard epic dungeon goes so against the DnD philosphy that i just cant understand how we reached this point. The most obvious thing to do here is known and discussed over and over ton of threads, the chances to get the good prizes should be increased by a lot. Is just not possible that best way to get my boon unlock is doing ton of dailies during near a month instead of going to the dungeon that is supposed to drop it and at same time that the boon unlock is by far the best prize and only thing worth farming (u can farm belts easier on the skirmish) from the dungeon. On this module is not much u can do to make the new dungeon worth getting, basically the boon unlock drop rate should be increased to something like 25% chance to get to make worth the shot to do the dungeon instead of just doing boring dailies. But even this is a basic patch, the root problem remain the same and its that the dungeon on general are not worth doing them. For that reason i think that the easiest way to fix this is to give the proper reward to the proper dungeon, basically if u do a T1 epic dungeon u get for sure one opal at the end, if u make T2 epic dungeon u get 2 opals and if u do valindra, malabog or the new dungeon u get 3 opals. This way u get an epic reward from an epic dungeon and u can get something that u can even use urself to refine ur set or just sell for coins, at same time it can fix the "problem" of the dungeons that are just partially finnished because its considered that last boss just dont worth the effort. What im trying to say over and over is that in a DnD game doing dungeons HAS to be profitable, always, not if u lucky, always. It has just no sense that a lot of elite mobs + 3 bosses are warding a chest with basically nothing on it. Keeping the RNG on the drops its ok as u cant be sure it will have excactly what u want for all the classes, but at least if u didnt got what u looking for at least u should get something that worth ur effort.
3) about campaigns: Something that really scared me from the last module it was the introduction of the insta complete campaigns products at zen store. At the beginning ive tougth "who would be that dumb to pay money for NOT playing?" the whole idea of paying in order to not have to play for me it was just crazy as ive tougth it just have no sense, but as most of people in here i create my warlock too, reached lvl60 and find me again going to sharandar. This dailies systems, filled with things that are made to stop u from progressing and annoy u till the point that u prefer to pay instead of play is just wrong. I know that i will not go further the 2nd boon on that toon just because i will not pay to not play (ive already charged like 200 dollars on this game but always to help me to play, not to avoid playing) and the whole sharandar campaing is extremly boring, really long and minimal profit. The tirany of the dragon campaign is a lot better in terms that u get the option to get the best weapon and those extremly usefull dragon hoard enchants, on the dread legion campaign u can see progress every day and even after u finnish with all in there, its still profitable doing the mini dungeon every day, but sharandar is like just a big no. At the news page i could see they are announcing the next module and i have no clue what they planning to do, but if the devs are willing to listen what i could ask for a campaing is to make it a lot more dinamical, reduce the number of quest but make them harder. Even when on the past 2 module the new sets just didnt bring any improvement against the old ones in terms of PVE, the sets people use are just too overpowered for the content making the dailies extremly boring as u have just no challenge. If u want to do dailies to control how fast people progress just make it that the whole campaign progress is rewarded by just 1 daily dungeon, but not one easy dungeon that everyone can solo it in 5 minutes, make a dungeon that u need an squad and cooperative work so u will progress together with friends and playing properly ur class, instead of just slaugthering everything on sigth before they know what it hit them.
I know that ive wrote like a book with all this but i think that ive tried to be constructive and providing easy implementable solution to the problems instead of just saying "everything is wrong, the doom day is comming". Im the kind of people that finnish baldurs gate, icewind dale and nverwinter multiple times, with multiple classes, multiple squads combination but each single time extremly planned from the beginning, knowing what i was looking for and i know that im not the only one that clicked the install button for this game because i did all that and recognized this game name. Rigth now i do like many things but im extremly
on many other things, i do know that this game is a lot more focus on casual players than on players that actually "plan their chars" but i think it shouldnt be hard to reach an intermediate points with everyone getting what they looking for, after all this game still have the dungeon and dragon logo and is sponsored by the wizards .One last thing, i ask the mods to keep this thread on General Discussion. I know many of the things could easily goes to gameplay, but i created the post for "general discussion" of the current content and thinking about the future and where this game goes.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Holy lol.
Quote of the year, making this my sig.
OT: This game isn't what you wanted it to be... We have nothing that encourages RP, customization, fun play... etc etc.
It's basically kill X, grind X , do X Dailies over and over again
Bob Salvatore, yes THAT Bob Salvatore, had a FB post about a similar topic today. He didn't mention this game, but internet games in general, however, most of the follow up comments were about this game and the "Veruca Salt" mindset the public in general has about just about everything being instant gratification. Some in the Foundry community are trying to incorporate such ideals, but they're being met with tepid reviews that it's "too hard' or "too long." I'd like to see a lot more as well.
Featured Foundry Quest: Whispers of an Ancient Evil [v3] - NW-DQ4WKW6ZG
Foundry Quest: Harper Chronicles: Blacklake - NW-DCPA4W2Q5
People keep mistake this game with a table RPG, its not. Have you ever played Tower of Doom or Shadow over Mistara? well... Neverwinter is more like that, but in 3D.
I think the dragons are well made for what the game mechanics can bring forth. Indeed the HP pool is fine for most of them. But I disagree to further reduce the casting times. Most of them already have very short reaction times. The drake in WC (no, not what you think...) for example can prone you with hands and after that cleave you before you get up on your feet, meaning it may cleave you afterwards without any way to avoid it.
The issue is more that these drakes are getting zerged by up to 30 players... with their current gear even a drake has not much chance.
If people want to improve the drake fights, one should not only critizise but also make some suggestions what should be changed. The OP made some good points.
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
But it's true. The Mods and their Dailies are ruining this game. I refuse to do the daily thing EVER. I've yet to get a character to 60, so I haven't actually run into the other mods, but I jumped on TOD with excitement when I heard it was scaled content playable from 26. I lasted a whole 2 days before I left in disgust. Lucky I have the Foundry to provide content for me. The bad stuff aside, the Foundry is also where ALL of the BEST content is. And since I won't get an epic gear score, it might even stay a challenge!
The Foundry is where we get the real nature of D&D, and PW and Cryptic have all but abandoned it. PLEASE GIVE THE FOUNDRY SOME LOVE! It's the best system for User Generated Content out there, but it could be so much better. It's the one real unique feature this game has going for it. It could really be the heart and soul of this game if they would let it. Give us Bosses, "On-Off" switches that can be used in creating puzzles, "OR Logic" and optional sidequests, better rewards, a more helpful search engine, and please fix the bugs. It would draw in and retain so many more players with a few improvements.
That's true as well. This game needs a more serious PvE content which encourages RP, customization, fun play... etc etc.
Although this is targeted at the Devs, so everyone else may ignore my rant.
Back to D&D would mean another thing that REALLY bugs me.
D&D has always been the RPG of a billion Monsters, and what do we have here? Goblins in Icewind Dale, which you only reach at Max-Level.
Are you friggin SERIOUS???
Orks, Zombies, Kobolds, Devils, Zombies again, Kobolds again, a few Golems, some Dragons sprikeled in, a S***load of Humans, a few Drow and one of the trademark D&D-Monsters, the Owlbear, as a Mount.
THAT is a joke. Where are the Beholders? The Bugbears? Why are the Demons not active? Do they really intend to just hand the material plane over to the Devils? Why are there no metallic Dragons helping us?
The Devs should really read a Monster Manual every once in a while. If they would, maybe the High caliber campains wouldn´t have Jokes as Lvl 60 Enemies. The Foundrys would also sing a whole lot sweeter if the "Founders" could choose something other than "Oh look Dragon cultists, I´m sure you haven´t had your fill of them in the regular Game". Maybe a small settlement has Otyugh in the sewers? No?
Ok, i´ll fight your Zombies, controlled by Valindras Wizards, or Everyone else, controlled by the Dragon Cult.
GOD, These Dragonsuckers are going on my nerves. DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT!!!!
As for the Foundry, I must admit, that was the one thing that drew me into the Game.
I can absolutely understand that it is not possible for the "Foundryworkers" to put anything resembling rewards into their Dungeons, but the Game should do that automatically. And not only the last Chest, i´m talking about resource nodes and the odd small chest here and there. The foundry is officially a part of Neverwinter, so why are those not part of the Foundry?
As it is there is NO incentive in Exploring the Dungeon, because you are not going to find anything worthwhile.
That maybe one of the reasons people are reviewing a Foundry as too long. You don´t get XP in a foundry (no Quests), and there is no Loot to speak of.
Oh, and by the way, is it so hard to scan for the Class of the adventurer going into the Foundry and have the last chest contain something that he can actually use?
And i dont even mean the Level, i really mean the Class.
I mean, COME ON!!!!!
TAKE ON A DRAGON, YOU SAY? NAH! TIS A FOOL HEARTY MISSION! IT IS SUICIDE!
...AND MY AXE!
A "more real" D&D experience would be Lord of the Rings online. Huge open world to explore. The one real dragon you get to fight (Draigoch) is every inch the quality of smaug. Huge, Brilliant, deadly. It even taunts you as you decend into is lair.
Neverwinter is a twitch action game with Forgotten realms flavor. Great game, but not really the D&D experience.
While there are some very worthy suggestions in this thread, they are not for this game and never will be. It is squarely aimed at casual players and so all content is designed to be completed in short bursts of time with minimal need for grouping/strategy. Asking for content that 'encourages RP' for instance is pointless - it wouldn't even be that popular among the wider playerbase.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Dont make us to melt tiamat in 5min...
Agree, but guess what, Devs won't change NWO to a better state cause 'x' reasons, everyone has been complaining lately cause the current state of the game is like the worst ever and I guess a lot of people leaved the game last month, so we have 2 ends, 1 is that they try to make the game better, the other option is that the game continue dying until the Devs come out with a statement saying that NWO won't continue because bla bla bla...
We all know what are the changes that need to be done, it's up to the Devs to:
1- Listen.
2- Care about what they listen.
3- Make changes.
But I'm 95% they won't do anything different from what they have done since beta, and its ignoring all the important issues.
Speaking of animations and postures and role playing, wouldn't it be amazing if we could pick a posture and animations (the way they walk, jump, dodge) for our character at character creation, aaaaand a voice - it's crazy, I know. They could make, like, three sets of animations for each class, and a maybe 10 male and 10 female voices to chose from. It would give your character a bit of personality and would bring some variety to the game.
I don't even want new campaigns and content, just improve old content and make it more fun.
People will pay for gear that takes a lot of time and effort to farm though, especially if that gear later makes you super strong compared to other players. You feel like you get your "bang for buck" by owning other players. There's no such incentive in roleplaying.