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An opinion on partying with low gear score players in pvp
ianthewizard2012
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,142 Arc User
Here I would like to share something I have realized recently about partying with low gear score players in pvp. In the past, we blamed them for causing our side to lose in pvp. Personally, I now feel sorry about that. It was not their fault. They were innocent. I have realized that it was the matchmaking system's fault. It keeps partying us with players whose gear scores are a lot different from us. Thus wasting our precious time.
When they queued for pvp, they were expecting meeting players whose gear scores were similar to theirs and had a great gameplay experience. A lot of unhappiness and disasters in pvp were caused by the bad matchmaking system.
So if we are partyed with them again in the future and unfortunately lose, we should not blame their gear scores anymore. And if we see other party members blame their gear scores, we should explain to them that it's the matchmaking system's fault. We, too, are victims of a detestable matchmaking system.
When they queued for pvp, they were expecting meeting players whose gear scores were similar to theirs and had a great gameplay experience. A lot of unhappiness and disasters in pvp were caused by the bad matchmaking system.
So if we are partyed with them again in the future and unfortunately lose, we should not blame their gear scores anymore. And if we see other party members blame their gear scores, we should explain to them that it's the matchmaking system's fault. We, too, are victims of a detestable matchmaking system.
Post edited by ianthewizard2012 on
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I only berate the geared player who plays stupid. If you have 12k+ GS worth of PVP gear and you don't stand on nodes, fight off-node and/or attack the TR at home in a group, then I will tell you off.
just out of curiosity do you have a legendary artifact weap?
Im a 18.5k GWF and I'm curious as to what GS increase I'll get roughly from changing my ancient castle sword to Legendary artifact sword. haha
Drunken Goose of MidNight Express. - 3.3k Paladin , 3.6k GWF , 3.1k GF,
plus it would make manipulation of a match pretty easy by simply gear-swapping.
gear is great but there are better variables to use for matching.
these poor matches that people keep complaining about may be due to a limited number of queued players rather than a "detestable matchmaking system". it's easier to blame the programming than a limited number of players closer to your caliber.
if they are in greens they deserve everything they get and more, its simply rude to join pvp in green trash gear when you can buy rares for 400~1k ad a piece and get to some 10k+ gs using few daily quest worth of ad and you can get rank5's simply by lvling(or buy at 3k a piece)
imho they should add 10k gs req to lvl 60 pvp - you can easily get more in blues and rank5's and no boons
If you run a bunch of matches during the evening, and you look at the names in the matches, 50% or so of the names seem to be the same people over and over again. It's not hard to believe that there just aren't enough people for matchmaking to have a snowballs chance in the nine hells of working.
So how are we supposed to solve the problem we are facing everyday? We can't just queue and expect a good result. We can't intrdouce some options in queue panel to filter for players whose GS are similar to ours as that can't prevent gear-swapping.
I agree with this as at times waiting for a PVP queue can be very long and even if we get in versing a far stronger pre-made I get why it happens. Something that could be a possibility (And draw interest back to pvp) is having 2 modes (Unranked and Ranked) for PVP (also have estimated queue times based on current people waiting so we can see whether to queue for it or not) Adding a ranked mode would allow these premades and people who want to gain ranking will stick to this ranked mode, and newer players looking for some fun in a more softcore less competitive PVP could queue for unranked.
At the moment with the current amount of common PVPers, it may not work as well as intended, but with a big event focusing on PVP for its release this could spike the interest of a lot of people. allow Ranked PVP to either be solo, or 5v5 possibly, with separate leaderboards for each. this will also alleviate the whole "I was with 4 other solo players against a 5 man premade"
I feel a lot of players stay away from PVP after having a bad experience previously, and only do it for their daily AD. hopefully something like this could help fix some of this general toxic feel some people have towards it. and truly split it between a competitive ranked system, and casual unranked play.
Drunken Goose of MidNight Express. - 3.3k Paladin , 3.6k GWF , 3.1k GF,
I cannot count the number of times where if the pugs would just go mid we would have won by a LARGE margin. They either do not listen, do not care, do not speak English, or they are bots. Those are the major problems.
Pro Tip for "thestaggy":
If you are on mid, you are compounding the problem. Go to their backcap, why? Look at your pugs, where are they? Stacked on your home cap right? Why? Because of the most reliable, dependable, predictable, pug behavior: If home cap is contested or capped by the Enemy, pugs WILL stack there, every time.
So now you have a 4v1 on your home cap, and a 4v1 on enemy back cap, so now its just about mid. This is the best situation you can create for your pugs. Mid is close so maybe if one of them dies they will notice and go cap it, or maybe the 4 of them will kill the TR! You then you have a 4 man zerg heading mid while you are holding down back cap which will net you 2 nodes ticken away. Even if the enemy goes mid to contest, you are still ahead with one node ticken.
If you die on the enemy node, go meet the enemy zerg at mid. If the point is being contested, this will attract the pugs because they will think its being capped and drop what they are doing to come leach the points for the node flip. When they get there, peace out and head to the enemy backcap again.
Still a terrible situation but probably the best chance you've got. One good thing about pug TR's back capping is that they are usually perma stealth and terrible so they rarely stay on the point, they think staying alive is more important, so your pugs will probably have the point flipped and will be chasing the TR all over the place so you'll be ticking home cap points at times at least. If you manage to get their cap flipped, you can just walk off point and keep fighting, they WILL follow you and you'll be ticken points there as well.
Oh and if YOU are an inexperienced, or low GS pug listen up!!!
GO MID!!!!!!!
Do NOTHING but go mid! Go mid, die, go back to mid, die, go back to mid. Do NOTHING else.
NEVER NEVER NEVER go to your home cap, EVER! Just go mid and someone on your team will probably win the match for you. If mid is capped push FORWARD! Not BACK.... FORWARD! Go back mid IMMEDIATELY if its contested.
That's why there's this amazing information/variable on other MMORPGs called "Equipped Ilvl" and "Ilvl available".
Not yet, but I fought a GWF with a legendary weapon, belt and three artifacts and he had a 20.2k GS. It was a beast. He died once when 5 people focused him.
Thanks, I shall try this.
I can attest to this. I swear too that the lower your gs, the lower your chance of communicating as well it seems. But the opposite seems true too. The higher your gs, the more inflated your ego ends up being. Ive been in those games where a loss has happened, due to gs differences, but high gs player was screaming at everyone else the WHOLE time. Even if they heard, I truly understand why someone would mute a player that's screaming profanity every other word instead of tactics/advice.
Do people even use the in game voice chat? That thing has been muted since the first couple weeks of open beta.
I do! I use that and teamspeak...
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Oh I'm a firm believer in teamspeak/mumble/vent etc. Just with the painful (literally) feedback, random volume levels, and poor quality I've ignored the in game voice chat since the start pretty much.
Hahahaha Thats me sometimes! I get zoned out and focus on 1 buttpirate on the opposing team acting like they're the Cheese... So I hunt them the entire match!
Most the time I direct the team best I can, and cap, back cap etc.
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
I meant normal chat... people have literally stopped fighting before to trash talk in pvp/part chat before...
I know the one you mean hahaha seen him around in IWD.
Drunken Goose of MidNight Express. - 3.3k Paladin , 3.6k GWF , 3.1k GF,
Ding! There's the kicker. I'm busy leveling my 3rd toon and pvp is a mess. There might be two of us that know how to pvp and we're losing. Occasionally, I'll pug a decent party and we'll stick together, rising in the rankings, only to be demoted 10 pages the next day when we random a few new pvp-ers who don't chat/communicate/strategize until the enemy is up 300pts.
If only there were a way to teach them...
Sharra Del'Armgo - SW Trapper Hybrid HR
Ogghra Bar'Ghuzumn - MI Scoundrel TR
Vænna Thrymskjöldr - IV Protector GF
Players don't experience "averages". A 100-900 Loss is more impactful than a 900-100 Win. And everybody expects to win more than they lose, however irrational that seems. And losing as a result of being undermatched is a god awful experience and leads to newer players abandoning pvp out of distrust for the matchmaking system.
When, n% of the time, on the lower tail, a few players have the most miserable pvp experience possible they will quit entirely. On the grand scheme these miserable pvp experiences can be just the tiniest fraction of total matches, maybe the same chances as drawing a legendary mount from a lockbox. Small enough to justify that gearscore doesn't trump skill in matchmaking. But, you know some lucky </jonsnow> is still drawing Orange Drakes, just as some unlucky </jonsnow> is waltzing into pvp, getting curbstomped by 20k opponents, and quitting.
If a portion of pvpers constantly have enough terrible experiences you're literally leaking players with every match. And apparently it's hit a point where enough players have given up on pvp that we no longer have a stable enough pvp population to have gear brackets. Good job.
Seriously? Who uses even blues past level 60? I bought most of purple equipment the moment I hit level 60 with my second character, as the cheapest purples for each class besides perhaps SW at this point are trash cheap, about as much as you get by salvagin them. Only exceptions were the gemmed level 40 pants and shirt, as the level 60 gemmed ones are pretty expensive for their worth, so they had to wait a week or so.
Also when my first char reached level 60, I had been saving enough AD to buy T1 purple set immediately, so that can't be the problem unless you are spending all you get on trash...
I've been thinking this for a while now.
If PVP were more enjoyable, more people would do it. If more people would do it, ELO would work better. If ELO worked better, PVP would be more enjoyable. If PVP were more enjoyable, more people would do it. If more people would do it, ELO would work better. If ELO worked better, PVP would be more enjoyable. If PVP were more enjoyable, more people would do it...
If the goal of ELO is to provide an enjoyable experience, ELO can't be WAI. That may not be the fault of ELO, but it is what it is. Personally, I view the argument that using GS as a factor can be exploited as a cop out. I'm sure they could come up with a way to lock a toon's gear for the duration of a match. Yes that would restrict adaptation during a match, but, due to the above paragraph, I'm all ears if you have a better idea.