More than anything, we need the TR itself to be a worthy combatant. We need the tools to fight. The tricky, technical, dirty-fighting swashbuckler types -- with stealth as an added bonus and a supplementary tool to make our lives easier -- not have the one, single component of stealth so important that we can't live without it.
Hence I've been trying to convice TR players all along.
■ Give us speed (no, not the pills). We, should be the fastest moving/running class.
■ Give us more dash, rush, sprint type of movement options, whether it comes as a secondary effect, or as a full-blown power choice.
■ Give us more active defenses. ITC isn't enough. WKs don't even have ITC. Give us the parries, riposts, reflect magic, whatever super technical move that you can actively time to dissipate or send back to the enemy
■ Give us more clever and useful utilities. Smoke Bomb that deterrs ranged attack (smoke screen effect), setting up combat-traps., setting up exploding dummies...
■ Give us all sorts of CCs and Dirty fighting tricks.. throwing sand/dirt in the opponent's eyes, approaching someone in stealth and tripping him, applying poison to blade, throwing daggers at the feet to root him, aiming for the eyes to cause a blind... and this, this is what we need the most....
[color=orangeGive us the *nut kick* as a stunning CC[/color].
Jesus almighty, even a gimmicky power like "steal money" I would not mind. Approach someone from stealth in PvP and *clink* steal 50 coppers from their purse?! Totally useless in combat, yes? But who cares. It's fun. More than anything, it makes you feel the combat lie a rogue would feel.
And that's what the TR sorely needs. A mode of fighting that makes you feel like you're a Rogue.... not just a ninja-wannabe throwing shurikens. A mode of fighting which a stealth is a part of -- not the current mode of fighting where stealth dominates everything else.
You know what?
I'm making a demand thread.
I'm gonna demand to the developers that they give us the "nut-kick".
Since Im a DnD player for almost a decade now at least all I have to say is this
1: We love kweassa
2: I want dirt in eyes
3: I yearn for nut-kick
4: I need pickpocket
5: I ABSOLUTELY NEED DISARM (lets say for 5 seconds with no blades or Holy icon)
Make that thread of yours , Im all for it, plus I have an idea
like HR's having two modes of combat make TR have 2 as well
a: With daggers
b: With no daggers ATT ALL
and make those abillities shift when changing mode e.g. LB becomes Pickpocket or ITC mud in eyes
no real dmg, just stuns and ****ing dirty fight
the absolute Brawler should be a TR in my opinion
I just believe that they dont want to waste their time on doing this class as it should
I have hope though, if they listen , I am really all for it.
BUT make perm-stealth a VIABLE pvp class as well !!!!!! if u put main ability score for dirtry fighting lest say ... wisdom how many are gonna change their CON, or STR or INT for that?? I think a lot, but perma's SHOULD EXIST nevertheless
Even when not balanced as u said lets say 3:5 I love the idea having a TR in pvp and dont have a clue HOW he plays, cause there might be many GOOD ways to play him.
I also love the idea of ppls leaving their money at bank before a fight
0
ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
edited September 2014
Courage breaker should be replaced with nut buster. Dunno how you can scare someone dressed like Ronald McDonald, but kicking them in the nuts sure will cut their damage by 90%!
Courage breaker should be replaced with nut buster. Dunno how you can scare someone dressed like Ronald McDonald, but kicking them in the nuts sure will cut their damage by 90%!
I hear you. I've posted a thread demanding we change the "Courage Breaker" to "Nut Cracker".
We're rogues. Only honor-bound fighters fools or fancy wizards care about this 'courage' stuff. Me? I'm a rogue.
I don't wanna break their "courage".
I wanna break their balls.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
The problem with Neverwinter is that it's too battle centric, so it's hard we'll ever see skills like "pick pocket" available. And funny things like throw sand or nut kick probably won't be seen either because if you have only 3 available skills most people would prefer to have more <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> skills like "shadow chaser" or "assassination" instead of "throw sand" but that might just be my opinion.
The problem with Neverwinter is that it's too battle centric, so it's hard we'll ever see skills like "pick pocket" available. And funny things like throw sand or nut kick probably won't be seen either because if you have only 3 available skills most people would prefer to have more <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> skills like "shadow chaser" or "assassination" instead of "throw sand" but that might just be my opinion.
And that's exactly why there should be a power like the nut-kick.
This is my personal opinion, but since late the 1980s, the influx of Japanese animation/comics have lingered for much too long, especially concerning "rogues". Rogues aren't ninjas. In most D&D campaigns I remember, thematically they were more accustomed to thuggish/criminal elements which you would commonly see in bad booze joints. Sometimes they were assassins, but more often than not usually they would be portrayed as the perky comic relief. It was more akin to a thief than an assassin, and the style of combat was considered natural, flexible, improvised, intelligent. If we compare it to Chinese martial arts movies, Rogues would identify better with Jackie Chan, rather than Bruce Lee. "Why so serious" would be its motto.
Now, I don't mean that the assassin/ninja type portrayal is bad or anything, but its been a cliche for such a long time. The serious, dark assassin, sometimes I dig the awesomeness of it all.. but for Neverwinter I think I would enjoy it more to see it go back to its roots. For a "TRICKSTER" Rogue, we sure don't have much tricks at all, as well as most are way too serious, rather than tricky.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
0
jessiefloraMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 21Arc User
That's exactly what CW are doing. Keeping to op aoe dmg and control. And in this module they asked to be the best single target and most op class in pvp and they get it. You ask for nerf and you get them. You want to be op class you are op class. That is why TR is insulted around and people spit on TR. That is because they let everyone treat them as victim. I feel for people who listen to suggestions as kweassa, nwnghost, pandora and few others. You just support people who want to bring you on bottom. You have to open your eyes before TR will be dead class. This is the time, if you stop the pattern now, TR can survive. If not death is inevitable.
That is why most important is to ignore people as they are. They don't care for TR, all they care is themselves or their other classes. If you TR respect yourselves then you will ask for deserved buffs to be at least equal with other classes.
It would be nice to offer something to the team; ran a dungeon today CW, CW, HR, Warlock and TR (me).
Naturally I brought the oranges for half time. One of the CW's was off-line for half the time - it didn't matter.
All I could do was run fast enough to keep up - oh occasionally I got to hit a a big monster. ( I just did caverns of Tuern solo, straight-up no deaths probably a lot slower than HR or magic users but I don't think I am that bad as TR. )
These classes do so much damage from distance that by the time TR get's close enough it's all over - may be a just a little shouting still to be done. I am not saying other classes are OP but I now see why other classes do spit on TR. Rolled a CW a few weeks ago and so much easier to level. (But I really wanna play TR QQ).
It seems to me that all the belly-aching about TR's and stealth arises from PvP. (I really don't understand why cryptic bought a DND licence if they simply want to make a PvP game.)
I just hope that after the changes to TR's I can do more than tag along and carry the oranges.
I would invite anyone having anything to do with rogue reworking to try and read this with patience and understanding, and then make decisions on what the rogue class could be about in this game: http://community.wizards.com/content/forum-topic/2590741
Also: I find the current playstyle of the rogue very enjoyable, although some more mobility would be nice. Plus the one thing someone else has mentioned: rogue is already fun to play. Now try to make it fun to play with other players (aka useful).
In my personal opinion, a rogue should always offer very good damage while striking from the side/back or a short distance (so basically when he doesn't have aggro) and a lot of utility in form of interrupts/CC while being very mobile and evasive but fragile at the same time (you evade normal attacks pretty well, but when you screw up avoiding the big hit, you will be dead).
Let me finish with a quote: 'Rogues are team players - Rogues are iconic in the fact that working with allies makes them a whole lot better, because it makes the conditions they require to thrive easy to achieve. In return, a Rogue in his element takes a lot of pressure off of the rest of the party. If you want to be a character who works in tandem with those around him to devastating effect, this is your stop. '
Don't look at me like that! That thing made a move at me!
I do agree that rogues need to be more mobile, they shoulld (in my opinion at least) be the MOST mobile of all classes. Now I'm not an expert in DnD so I don't know if it applies there.
Ithink that HRs and TRs need their shift move changed, it would make more sense to give TR more evades, after all he's mostly melee, and has low armor, while HR is half melee half ranged and has better damage mitigation methods. Besides why do they get to disappear in a flashy effect of leaves and we just roll down? XD
I'll read the link now, it looks interesting.
And that's exactly why there should be a power like the nut-kick.
This is my personal opinion, but since late the 1980s, the influx of Japanese animation/comics have lingered for much too long, especially concerning "rogues". Rogues aren't ninjas. In most D&D campaigns I remember, thematically they were more accustomed to thuggish/criminal elements which you would commonly see in bad booze joints. Sometimes they were assassins, but more often than not usually they would be portrayed as the perky comic relief. It was more akin to a thief than an assassin, and the style of combat was considered natural, flexible, improvised, intelligent. If we compare it to Chinese martial arts movies, Rogues would identify better with Jackie Chan, rather than Bruce Lee. "Why so serious" would be its motto.
Now, I don't mean that the assassin/ninja type portrayal is bad or anything, but its been a cliche for such a long time. The serious, dark assassin, sometimes I dig the awesomeness of it all.. but for Neverwinter I think I would enjoy it more to see it go back to its roots. For a "TRICKSTER" Rogue, we sure don't have much tricks at all, as well as most are way too serious, rather than tricky.
The class was actually Thief in original D&D and AD&D. The move to calling it Rogue was to make it more appealing to a wider audience rather than just those comfortable playing a 'bad guy'. Which is why you won't see any move towards the type of dirty-fighting scumbag you seem to enjoy.
In a game where even Infernal Pact Warlocks are portrayed as flawed heroes you aren't going to be handed the opportunity to play a thug. Period.
I do agree that rogues need to be more mobile, they shoulld (in my opinion at least) be the MOST mobile of all classes. Now I'm not an expert in DnD so I don't know if it applies there.
Ithink that HRs and TRs need their shift move changed, it would make more sense to give TR more evades, after all he's mostly melee, and has low armor, while HR is half melee half ranged and has better damage mitigation methods. Besides why do they get to disappear in a flashy effect of leaves and we just roll down? XD
Yeah, exactly. I was doing some PvP today and thought to myself that it is kinda silly that we get to just roll with this weird stutter at the end while HR teleports all over the place with a cool animation to it.
I hate to bring another's game name to the table, but look at GW2 thief's dodge roll. Something similar would be awesome. Just like the animation when we enter stealth, just with a roll.
They teleport into you so they can target you and hopefully lock you down. It violates the spirit of the rogue. That CW is porting into, what should be, a TR's kill zone. The CW should be at a major combat disadvantage. Just as we are when we are scampering around within their spell range with no defense.
+1
Don't look at me like that! That thing made a move at me!
Comments
Since Im a DnD player for almost a decade now at least all I have to say is this
1: We love kweassa
2: I want dirt in eyes
3: I yearn for nut-kick
4: I need pickpocket
5: I ABSOLUTELY NEED DISARM (lets say for 5 seconds with no blades or Holy icon)
Make that thread of yours , Im all for it, plus I have an idea
like HR's having two modes of combat make TR have 2 as well
a: With daggers
b: With no daggers ATT ALL
and make those abillities shift when changing mode e.g. LB becomes Pickpocket or ITC mud in eyes
no real dmg, just stuns and ****ing dirty fight
the absolute Brawler should be a TR in my opinion
I just believe that they dont want to waste their time on doing this class as it should
I have hope though, if they listen , I am really all for it.
BUT make perm-stealth a VIABLE pvp class as well !!!!!! if u put main ability score for dirtry fighting lest say ... wisdom how many are gonna change their CON, or STR or INT for that?? I think a lot, but perma's SHOULD EXIST nevertheless
Even when not balanced as u said lets say 3:5 I love the idea having a TR in pvp and dont have a clue HOW he plays, cause there might be many GOOD ways to play him.
I also love the idea of ppls leaving their money at bank before a fight
I hear you. I've posted a thread demanding we change the "Courage Breaker" to "Nut Cracker".
We're rogues. Only honor-bound fighters fools or fancy wizards care about this 'courage' stuff. Me? I'm a rogue.
I don't wanna break their "courage".
I wanna break their balls.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
And that's exactly why there should be a power like the nut-kick.
This is my personal opinion, but since late the 1980s, the influx of Japanese animation/comics have lingered for much too long, especially concerning "rogues". Rogues aren't ninjas. In most D&D campaigns I remember, thematically they were more accustomed to thuggish/criminal elements which you would commonly see in bad booze joints. Sometimes they were assassins, but more often than not usually they would be portrayed as the perky comic relief. It was more akin to a thief than an assassin, and the style of combat was considered natural, flexible, improvised, intelligent. If we compare it to Chinese martial arts movies, Rogues would identify better with Jackie Chan, rather than Bruce Lee. "Why so serious" would be its motto.
Now, I don't mean that the assassin/ninja type portrayal is bad or anything, but its been a cliche for such a long time. The serious, dark assassin, sometimes I dig the awesomeness of it all.. but for Neverwinter I think I would enjoy it more to see it go back to its roots. For a "TRICKSTER" Rogue, we sure don't have much tricks at all, as well as most are way too serious, rather than tricky.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
It would be nice to offer something to the team; ran a dungeon today CW, CW, HR, Warlock and TR (me).
Naturally I brought the oranges for half time. One of the CW's was off-line for half the time - it didn't matter.
All I could do was run fast enough to keep up - oh occasionally I got to hit a a big monster. ( I just did caverns of Tuern solo, straight-up no deaths probably a lot slower than HR or magic users but I don't think I am that bad as TR. )
These classes do so much damage from distance that by the time TR get's close enough it's all over - may be a just a little shouting still to be done. I am not saying other classes are OP but I now see why other classes do spit on TR. Rolled a CW a few weeks ago and so much easier to level. (But I really wanna play TR QQ).
It seems to me that all the belly-aching about TR's and stealth arises from PvP. (I really don't understand why cryptic bought a DND licence if they simply want to make a PvP game.)
I just hope that after the changes to TR's I can do more than tag along and carry the oranges.
http://community.wizards.com/content/forum-topic/2590741
Also: I find the current playstyle of the rogue very enjoyable, although some more mobility would be nice. Plus the one thing someone else has mentioned: rogue is already fun to play. Now try to make it fun to play with other players (aka useful).
In my personal opinion, a rogue should always offer very good damage while striking from the side/back or a short distance (so basically when he doesn't have aggro) and a lot of utility in form of interrupts/CC while being very mobile and evasive but fragile at the same time (you evade normal attacks pretty well, but when you screw up avoiding the big hit, you will be dead).
Let me finish with a quote: 'Rogues are team players - Rogues are iconic in the fact that working with allies makes them a whole lot better, because it makes the conditions they require to thrive easy to achieve. In return, a Rogue in his element takes a lot of pressure off of the rest of the party. If you want to be a character who works in tandem with those around him to devastating effect, this is your stop. '
Ithink that HRs and TRs need their shift move changed, it would make more sense to give TR more evades, after all he's mostly melee, and has low armor, while HR is half melee half ranged and has better damage mitigation methods. Besides why do they get to disappear in a flashy effect of leaves and we just roll down? XD
I'll read the link now, it looks interesting.
In a game where even Infernal Pact Warlocks are portrayed as flawed heroes you aren't going to be handed the opportunity to play a thug. Period.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Yeah, exactly. I was doing some PvP today and thought to myself that it is kinda silly that we get to just roll with this weird stutter at the end while HR teleports all over the place with a cool animation to it.
I hate to bring another's game name to the table, but look at GW2 thief's dodge roll. Something similar would be awesome. Just like the animation when we enter stealth, just with a roll.
Also:
+1