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Freeze future changes, what do you think?
valencay
Member Posts: 431 Bounty Hunter
Yesterday gentleman crush wrote this on a post about cw freeze ignoring gf's guard and he said how they are planning to change the freeze and cw stacking
Quoting:
There are actually 2 problems here we are looking at.
Firstly, Guardian Block is not always blocking CC that comes in from the front like it is supposed to, so we are looking at that independent of Wizard CC potential.
Secondly, Wizards are getting a little *too* much chain CC potential. Given this we are looking at adding a duration after being frozen where you are immune to Chill Stacks. This duration will be related to how long you are controlled for. This will mean landing a successful Shatter Strike on the target will give them a little longer safe time before they can be controlled again.
The first iteration we are looking at is after being frozen from chill you will be immune to Chill stacks for 3 seconds after the freeze would have ended (before any strength and resistance get involved). After a successful shatter strike you will be immune for 3 seconds on players and 5 seconds on critters. This means that wizards can lock down a large number of foes but cannot do it forever. It is important to note that multiple wizards will SHARE this lockout, so it cannot be subverted by stacking more wizards.
We want controlling foes to be a powerful utility without totally disabling gameplay for everyone else.
Thank you for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
I do not believe this is a valid solution to avoid cw stacking but i think this is a pretty big and important nerf to the class, how do you think our playstyle will change?
Note: I am a pve player so I am not actually talking about pvp, but feel free to leave your feedback about it as well
Quoting:
There are actually 2 problems here we are looking at.
Firstly, Guardian Block is not always blocking CC that comes in from the front like it is supposed to, so we are looking at that independent of Wizard CC potential.
Secondly, Wizards are getting a little *too* much chain CC potential. Given this we are looking at adding a duration after being frozen where you are immune to Chill Stacks. This duration will be related to how long you are controlled for. This will mean landing a successful Shatter Strike on the target will give them a little longer safe time before they can be controlled again.
The first iteration we are looking at is after being frozen from chill you will be immune to Chill stacks for 3 seconds after the freeze would have ended (before any strength and resistance get involved). After a successful shatter strike you will be immune for 3 seconds on players and 5 seconds on critters. This means that wizards can lock down a large number of foes but cannot do it forever. It is important to note that multiple wizards will SHARE this lockout, so it cannot be subverted by stacking more wizards.
We want controlling foes to be a powerful utility without totally disabling gameplay for everyone else.
Thank you for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
I do not believe this is a valid solution to avoid cw stacking but i think this is a pretty big and important nerf to the class, how do you think our playstyle will change?
Note: I am a pve player so I am not actually talking about pvp, but feel free to leave your feedback about it as well
Aset Xharran, Oppressor CW
Post edited by valencay on
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Comments
I think they are making a mistake by thinking that weakening CW's is going to discourage bringing more along on the team. I expect it to have the opposite effect.
And I am displeased by the notion that my powers will be rendered impotent, just because another wizard cast a spell. I have no control over team composition in a pugged Skirmish...
Consider that 5 seconds is often the whole of the fight. One mob encounter does not take very long.
Roland Mac Sheonin GF | Tarron Direheart SW |
I agree that a longer time on pve is wrong, also with less control i think that a party will bring more dps. a couple of weks ago i said that probably party would have been 1 cw 1/2sw 1/2gfw or dc by now and this is currently the set up i'm using for vt, but with htis change you are pretty much forcing me to bring at leat another cw
That's going to fix a lot of problems with Thaumaturge's going all out damage with fantastic control. If you want to perma freeze people, you'll have to go down the Oppressor tree, and give up about 30-40% of your DPS to do that.
The problem with adding the immunity is that it basically puts an entire build (Oppressor) on CD for 5-8 seconds after they do their job once.
"Hey! Congratulations on CCing the mobs. Now just sit in the corner for 5 seconds until you're allowed to play the game again!"
That sounds like the very definition of NOT fun.
Serious question: am I mixed up?
-runs back to reread GC's comment-
EDIT TO update: Okay - re-read GC's comment, it IS cc immunity he is speaking of, but that is STACK immunity, meaning having immunity from multiple STACKS. And that "you" are immune from these stacks for 3 seconds when YOU are cc'd by (PvP) player, or cc-immune from stacks for 8 seconds when YOU are cc'd by critters.
In which case I don't think it's "backward" - meaning the 8 Seconds is right for PvE and 3 seconds for PvP - makes sense to me.
At least that is how I understand what was written.
//just saying.
that's what concern me, a nerf like that is going to hit a capstone which a class is built around, i would happly give up my damage to have the control, also if a thaum (not even using orb of imposition ) happens to freeze the target, he puts your build on a 5-8 cd as you stated BUT his freeze last 3 second smth like that instead of your 10 second, i really see a path problem here
what i understood from CG's post is that after shatter endsthe pve target is now immune from chill stacks for 5 seconds, but he also says that they are immune from chill stacks even while they are stunned by shatter which makes me think that shatter freeze the target and reset chill stacks (and this would be a problem for chilling presence, having an effective uptime of 3-4 sec ). also the fact that he talks about specific shatter and not generical freeze bothers me
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
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~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Okay, I understand the underlying concern now that you mention it.
I think that would be better! Honestly right now Thaum and Renegade can freeze the same almost...
Oppressor should be harder to kill and the Chill Control master with lower DPS
Thaum Should be the Dot damage Dps class using chill and arcane
Renegade should be a DPS arcane Buffer with some better Arcane control
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
I like tying the extreme freeze to the Oppressor capstone. Otherwise the changes are a severe penalty for the Oppressors, especially with the other feat trees also utilizing Chill (I mean what CW isn't using Chill & Storm Spell).
As far as Renegade, before mod-4 we were a viable Crit/Charisma/DPS/CA buff tree with a garbage capstone (which is what it remains). Now due to the restructure of the tree, we're at structural disadvantage, and arcane is a less favored line (compared to the overly generous buffs to chill based skills). We don't need it made any worse, which is all I can see happening.
But again, let's stick to simple solutions. Move the freeze not breaking to the Oppressor capstone, and you're going to better segregate Control vs Damage in CW's. Right now, a Thaumaturge has 90% of the control an Oppressor offers, while an Oppressor has like 60% of the Thaumaturge DPS.
THANKS FOR POSTING THIS. especially the first part. plz make oppressor the only tree that is all about controlling. i switched to oppressor to feel "special" about controls but i see that any other tree can do it as well. its dumb to be an oppressor now.
Indeed. I agree with everything you've said on the issue.
However, we are all missing something here. Cryptic has already told us what they will do. They aren't looking for feedback or community input. If they were, guess what, they would have taken perma/insta freeze out of the game during test because everyone told them it was a bad idea.
So you can wish on a star as much as you want but Cryptic has already told us what the fix is going to be. I'd prepare yourself for that.
You are right to say that they didn't ask for any feedback but the hope is that one of the dev will read some of the ideas that have been given in this thread and decide to reconsider this fix, for it is really important to consider the consequences this fix will have on the oppressor path in the first place
Consider the following:
If an Oppressor mage freezes things Shatter kicks in long before freeze wears off. This means they are double stunned. It just doesn't make any sense when freeze itself is an unbreakable stun that overlaps with the stun from the capstone. It was clearly designed for freeze to shatter on damage and was never revamped to make sense on Live.
It does damage, but the stun is absolutely overshadowed by freezing targets. As long as freeze doesn't break on damage the stun from Oppressor Cap might as well not even exist. It's for damage on a spec that simply does not do damage. It also won't be doing that damage more than once every six seconds tops, and it's not even great damage. I.E. Useless in every way.
Making add's immune to chill for five seconds after freezing is even worse if you consider other mages apply chill as well. If they freeze the targets first what is Oppressor going to do exactly? No other classes can get in each other's way in this fundamental of a fashion. In making it non-profitable to have two CW in group they are going to make it impossible to have two CW in a group together unless they are both damage spec only. No one will want, or care, about Oppressor.
Last Edit:
Eventually the developers are going to realize no one even cares about freeze. In 90% of 'geared' teams the mage just runs ahead gathering many, many pulls and nukes them with Oppressive Force. This method doesn't even give freeze a chance to happen right now on live. So I don't know what the point of this is at all. It will not have the desired result of having people take fewer control wizards. It's still going to be stack CW, Oppressive Force nuke, win.
I went MoF Oppressor because I wanted to try it out now that Oppressor was supposed to be viable in PVE now with the capstone change. But it appears I was wrong. But I'm afraid to use my respec because they might tinker some more and blow the CW all up again.
i have a little suggestion for cws. revert the freezing effect (which is that enemies wont break free from freeze by taking damage). make oppressor's last feat shatter strike so that when enemies break free from freezing, the enemies will SHATTER (so it makes sense) and they will be stunned and get damaged. REAL DAMAGED PLEASE. because it doesnt really do damage at the moment.
or prevent all cws from freezing enemies and let cws with shatter strike freeze enemies. and when they break free, the enemies will shatter just like above mentioned. why am i saying this? because other cws also use icy terrain and they will interfere with the oppressor cw trying to freeze them. thus no shatter. let oppressors freeze them only