ENKO's Frozen Thauma build (PvE)

nipid

Hello, a lot of people were asking for my build so I wanted post it here, hope it will help you in current module 4.

Pure PvE DPS Build with freezing and controling.

Gear:
I'm using High Vizer set for max my dps, fallen dragon weapon set because lifesteal bonus, ancient fugitives necklace of revolt and slavemasters ring of control for increase my power & critical strike, smiting nefarious belt becuase I dont have INT belt yet, so when I will unlock dungeon I will farm INT belt whats best for CW because INT damage bonus. Also I will use Chilling Eye of the Golden Dragon weapon artifact.



Artifacts:
Right now I'm using Lantern of Revelation, Thayan Book of the Dead and Sigil of the Great Weapon, after I will have Draconic Armorbreaker ( Tyranny of Dragons Boon) I will change Sigil of the Great Weapon to Sigil of the Devoted and use it as active artifact because really goo Action Points gain and small cooldown on legendary version.

Enchantments:

Offense Slot: Radiant or Dark (when you need Armor Penetration)
Defense Slot: Dark (good lifesteal bonus)
Utility Slot: Dark, Fey Blessing, Dragon's Hoard (depends on you I'm using Fey Blessing but will change to Dragon's Hoard soon)

Armor Enchantment: Lesser Soulforged (or better version but lesser is enough for PvE)
Weapon Enchantment: Perfect Vorpal or Greater Plaguefire when you dont have DC with it in party (I've still best DPS in team with g.pf)
Armor Kit: Greater Armor Penetration

Goals:

35% Critical Chance
24% Resistance ignored
40% Recharge Speed

Then only Power.

Ability Scores:
Max INT and CHA.

My current stats and Ability Scores:

nipid

Feats and Boons:

nipid

AoE Powers:



At-Wills: Chilling Cloud, Ray of Frost
Class Feature: Storm Spell, Eye of the Storm
Daily: Arcane Singularity, Oppressive Force
Mastery: Conduit of Ice
Encounters: Sudden Storm, Steal Time, Icy Terrain

Rotation: Conduit of Ice > Steal Time > Sudden Storm > Icy Terrain

Single target powers, Boss fights (VT, MC):



At-Wills: Chilling Cloud, Ray of Frost
Class Feature: Storm Spell, Eye of the Storm
Daily: Ice Knife, Oppressive Force
Mastery: Ray of Enfeeblement
Encounters: Chill Strike, Conduit of Ice, Icy Rays

Rotation: 2x Ray of Enfeeblement, Conduit of Ice, Icy Rays, Chill Strike

Tip: Always try to have stacked Frozen Power Transfer Feat (hit 3 or more mobs with Chilling Cloud). If you have stacked Frozen Power Transfer and encounters have cooldown and you see only one/two mobs use Ray of Frost to max DPS with Storm Spell (Ray of Frost have highest chance to proc it)

Sorry if my English is bad its not my native language. Have Fun with this build!

[Deleted User]

This is awesome build enko thank you again i'm your little lover XDD

zlijaguar

Nice man!!!! I love you

wixxgs1cht

Thanks for sharing, Enkoru. :-) I can vouch for his PVE competence. So if you're not sure what build to pick - give this one a shot!

djoffer1

Very nice, any thought on how this build Works for pvp?

nipid

djoffer1 wrote: »

Very nice, any thought on how this build Works for pvp?

Sometimes I'm going PvP also then I switch High Vizer set to Corrupted Black Ice and Ring of Sinister Force, Ring of Dexterous Evasion and It works good, not so good as when you have maxed CON and HP gear but its good

spacejew

I think it's pretty safe to say that this is the only reasonable way to build a Thaum at this point. I'd toss Tempest Magic for Destructive Wizardry personally since I prefer a more up-front 5% rather than a 5% that only applies when they are already dead but that's personal preference and is basically the only thing anyone might change up from this layout. (And while Ray of Frost proc's Storm Spell/Assailant a lot, I generally prefer Storm Pillar and it proc's the same effects almost as often only with more up-front damage.)

I would entirely agree Tempests is easier, and in speed runs you'd probably get more out of Tempest over the course of the whole run. So it's just a small quibble, it's a solid build either way.

Tip: Always try to have stacked Chilling Cloud 3 times (Frozen Power Transfer Feat). If you have stacked Chilling Cloud 3 times and encounters have cooldown and you see only one/two mobs use Ray of Frost to max DPS with Storm Spell (Ray of Frost have highest chance to proc it)

This is actually false, but maybe I'm just misreading you. You only need to throw Chilling Cloud once (It's full 3 strikes, so just one 'rotation' so to speak) to get the x3 bonus assuming the 3rd strike hits 3 targets. If you cast it three times, you could actually ruin your damage bonus as things are probably dead after x3 CC. I'm sure that's what you probably meant, but I just wanted to point this out because it's a little unclear.

crocmadaire

Thanks Enko, You were the best. But now, it'll be hard to stay it ! Everyone will take your build !

nipid

spacejew wrote: »

I think it's pretty safe to say that this is the only reasonable way to build a Thaum at this point. I'd toss Tempest Magic for Destructive Wizardry personally since I prefer a more up-front 5% rather than a 5% that only applies when they are already dead but that's personal preference and is basically the only thing anyone might change up from this layout. (And while Ray of Frost proc's Storm Spell/Assailant a lot, I generally prefer Storm Pillar and it proc's the same effects almost as often only with more up-front damage.)

I would entirely agree Tempests is easier, and in speed runs you'd probably get more out of Tempest over the course of the whole run. So it's just a small quibble, it's a solid build either way.



This is actually false, but maybe I'm just misreading you. You only need to throw Chilling Cloud once (It's full 3 strikes, so just one 'rotation' so to speak) to get the x3 bonus assuming the 3rd strike hits 3 targets. If you cast it three times, you could actually ruin your damage bonus as things are probably dead after x3 CC. I'm sure that's what you probably meant, but I just wanted to point this out because it's a little unclear.

I'm not sure how it was before M4 with Frozen Power Transfer I wasnt using it but now its reworked so you need stack it 3 times not only once.

Chilling Cloud now grants 1/2/3/4/5% bonus damage for every target you strike with its third strike. This bonus lasts for 20 seconds and stack up to 3 times.

And yes this build is mostly for running dungeons like CN, I did whole CN with 2 CW (also dracolich) without any problems.

EDIT:

I said use Ray of Frost when you see 1/2 mobs so Storm Pillar wont be better because proc rate is only 2.8% when Ray of Frost have 33.4% I dont have tested it now but there is last at-will test http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?410391-Testing-At-Will-Powers

elusiveonen7

I appreciate you posting this build. I have been lost on what to do with my casual PVE CW.

spacejew

nipid wrote: »

I'm not sure how it was before M4 with Frozen Power Transfer I wasnt using it but now its reworked so you need stack it 3 times not only once.

The way it works is when you throw Chilling Cloud you get 1 stack of Frozen Power Transfer per target hit by it's 3rd strike. So, if you hit 3 targets with the 3rd strike you have every stack of Frozen Power Transfer you can have. Easily tested on training dummies.

Really solid build otherwise! I'm just being pedantic with this one little detail. ^_^

(And helping keep it near the top!)

nipid

spacejew wrote: »

The way it works is when you throw Chilling Cloud you get 1 stack of Frozen Power Transfer per target hit by it's 3rd strike. So, if you hit 3 targets with the 3rd strike you have every stack of Frozen Power Transfer you can have. Easily tested on training dummies.

Really solid build otherwise! I'm just being pedantic with this one little detail. ^_^

(And helping keep it near the top!)

Okay thanks for test then, gonna edit it

rashylewizz

Just wondering why you chose Rampaging Madness over Endless Consumption. Are you assuming a warlock in the party in most cases making endless consumption not as decent or do you think Rampaging madness is just a better boon even after the fix? Or are you just pushing DPS?

rilog

Ok, just a quick question, why are you using RoE in mastery instead of Icy Rays? you only get the benefit from double debuff on the first rotation since you don't get 2 charges back at the time. And Icy Rays deals 50% more dmg if it is in the Mastery slot. I might have missed something obvious in using RoE in mastery or something about Icy Rays..

nipid

rashylewizz wrote: »

Just wondering why you chose Rampaging Madness over Endless Consumption. Are you assuming a warlock in the party in most cases making endless consumption not as decent or do you think Rampaging madness is just a better boon even after the fix? Or are you just pushing DPS?

With 1.2k Lifesteal I have enough healing when I deal tons of damage and I think Rampaging Madness is still good DPS boost.

rilog wrote: »

Ok, just a quick question, why are you using RoE in mastery instead of Icy Rays? you only get the benefit from double debuff on the first rotation since you don't get 2 charges back at the time. And Icy Rays deals 50% more dmg if it is in the Mastery slot. I might have missed something obvious in using RoE in mastery or something about Icy Rays..

I dont have tested Icy Rays tab but anyway another charge to RoE deal more damage than +50% to Icy Rays, so I refresh debuff and still do better damage than with Icy Rays.

letojarred1

I've run CN with this guy and my god!, my dps is only half compared to his!. My smolder won't tick any damage at all elite mobs drop down to red with 1 sudden storm :eek:

isammax

I'm using pretty similar build with exaclty the same rotation, but I have maxed Focused Wizardry feat and Severe reaction (instead of Bitter Cold) for PvP. The main source of damage in this build is Storm Spell (about 30-40%) which does single target damage. All other AOE skills do about 40-50% of damage. If you have maxed Focused Wizardry you will gain 30% single target damage increase and 10% AOE damage loss. In our case you'll gain about 10-12% damage increase for Storm Spell and 4-5% loss for other AOE skills. Focused Wizardry also makes a HUGE difference in PvP and boss fights. This feat is win-win for everything.

UPD:

careful with this info, it looks like damage goes up only when Storm Spell is activated by a single target power for some reason.

wixxgs1cht

isammax wrote: »

I'm using pretty similar build with exaclty the same rotation, but I have maxed Focused Wizardry feat and Severe reaction (instead of Bitter Cold) for PvP. The main source of damage in this build is Storm Spell (about 30-40%) which does single target damage. All other AOE skills do about 40-50% of damage. If you have maxed Focused Wizardry you will gain 30% single target damage increase and 10% AOE damage loss. In our case you'll gain about 10-12% damage increase for Storm Spell and 4-5% loss for other AOE skills. Focused Wizardry also makes a HUGE difference in PvP and boss fights. This feat is win-win for everything.

That in fact makes a lot of sense. Never looked at it from this POV. Guess it's time for a respec :-D Cheers mate, great input.

yperkeimenos

isammax wrote: »

I'm using pretty similar build with exaclty the same rotation, but I have maxed Focused Wizardry feat and Severe reaction (instead of Bitter Cold) for PvP. The main source of damage in this build is Storm Spell (about 30-40%) which does single target damage. All other AOE skills do about 40-50% of damage. If you have maxed Focused Wizardry you will gain 30% single target damage increase and 10% AOE damage loss. In our case you'll gain about 10-12% damage increase for Storm Spell and 4-5% loss for other AOE skills. Focused Wizardry also makes a HUGE difference in PvP and boss fights. This feat is win-win for everything.

Well from my tests,focused wizardry increases smolder damage but not Storm Spell damage,which seems to remain unaffected by the feat. I tested it at preview on dummies, with and without focused wizardry, and the damage of each Storm Spell hit was the same. The at will i used to test this was the first hit of Chilling cloud and / or Magic Missile. I would hit the dummy once ,until SS procced, and would watch the damage numbers,i don't do well with battle log,as they came on screen. In all cases they came roughly the same and were not enhanced by Focused Wizardry. On the other hand,when i used unslotted Fanning the flame in conjunction with drifting embers, the smolder damage,on neighboring dummies to the one primarily hit, was increased by roughly 30%. The damage numbers that came up were, on average,460+ Fire damage without Focused Wizardry and 600+ with Focused Wizardry. No campaign bonuses,paragon paths and weapon enchants were selected or used ,except for Plaguefire in the Mof test,because the dots proc Drifting Embers almost instantly.

isammax

yperkeimenos wrote: »

Well from my tests,focused wizardry increases smolder damage but not Storm Spell damage,which seems to remain unaffected by the feat. I tested it at preview on dummies, with and without focused wizardry, and the damage of each Storm Spell hit was the same. The at will i used to test this was the first hit of Chilling cloud and / or Magic Missile. I would hit the dummy once ,until SS procced, and would watch the damage numbers,i don't do well with battle log,as they came on screen. In all cases they came roughly the same and were not enhanced by Focused Wizardry. On the other hand,when i used unslotted Fanning the flame in conjunction with drifting embers, the smolder damage,on neighboring dummies to the one primarily hit, was increased by roughly 30%. The damage numbers that came up were, on average,460+ Fire damage without Focused Wizardry and 600+ with Focused Wizardry. No campaign bonuses,paragon paths and weapon enchants were selected or used ,except for Plaguefire in the Mof test,because the dots proc Drifting Embers almost instantly.

Just re-checked it on preview (tested on dummies):

Without focused wizardry:

[Combat (Self)] Your Storm Spell deals 2106 Lightning Damage to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Your Storm Spell deals 2443 Lightning Damage to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Your Storm Spell deals 2486 Lightning Damage to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Your Storm Spell deals 2667 Lightning Damage to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Your Storm Spell deals 2603 Lightning Damage to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Your Storm Spell deals 2735 Lightning Damage to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Your Storm Spell deals 2064 Lightning Damage to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Your Storm Spell deals 2652 Lightning Damage to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Storm Spell deals 4657 Lightning Damage to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Your Storm Spell deals 2338 Lightning Damage to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Storm Spell deals 4489 Lightning Damage to Target Dummy.


With:

[Combat (Self)] Your Storm Spell deals 3180 Lightning Damage to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Storm Spell deals 5610 Lightning Damage to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Your Storm Spell deals 3158 Lightning Damage to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Storm Spell deals 4655 Lightning Damage to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Your Storm Spell deals 3292 Lightning Damage to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Storm Spell deals 6049 Lightning Damage to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Your Storm Spell deals 3255 Lightning Damage to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Your Storm Spell deals 3165 Lightning Damage to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Your Storm Spell deals 3357 Lightning Damage to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Your Storm Spell deals 3217 Lightning Damage to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Your Storm Spell deals 3291 Lightning Damage to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Your Storm Spell deals 3489 Lightning Damage to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Your Storm Spell deals 3409 Lightning Damage to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Your Storm Spell deals 3097 Lightning Damage to Target Dummy.

It was activated by single target power.

UPD:

Ok this is really weird. When Storm Spell is activated by single target power, it's damage goes up by 30%.
But when it's activated by AOE the damage is the same as without Focused Wizardry.
So either it's some sort of a bug or it WAI and Focused Wizardry is not so good as I thought for PVE. Still works in PvP tho ;D

Do you guys think it's a bug?

yperkeimenos

isammax wrote: »

Just re-checked it on preview (tested on dummies):

Without focused wizardry:

[Combat (Self)] Your Storm Spell deals 2106 Lightning Damage to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Your Storm Spell deals 2443 Lightning Damage to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Your Storm Spell deals 2486 Lightning Damage to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Your Storm Spell deals 2667 Lightning Damage to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Your Storm Spell deals 2603 Lightning Damage to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Your Storm Spell deals 2735 Lightning Damage to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Your Storm Spell deals 2064 Lightning Damage to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Your Storm Spell deals 2652 Lightning Damage to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Storm Spell deals 4657 Lightning Damage to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Your Storm Spell deals 2338 Lightning Damage to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Storm Spell deals 4489 Lightning Damage to Target Dummy.


With:

[Combat (Self)] Your Storm Spell deals 3180 Lightning Damage to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Storm Spell deals 5610 Lightning Damage to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Your Storm Spell deals 3158 Lightning Damage to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Storm Spell deals 4655 Lightning Damage to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Your Storm Spell deals 3292 Lightning Damage to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Storm Spell deals 6049 Lightning Damage to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Your Storm Spell deals 3255 Lightning Damage to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Your Storm Spell deals 3165 Lightning Damage to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Your Storm Spell deals 3357 Lightning Damage to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Your Storm Spell deals 3217 Lightning Damage to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Your Storm Spell deals 3291 Lightning Damage to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Your Storm Spell deals 3489 Lightning Damage to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Your Storm Spell deals 3409 Lightning Damage to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Your Storm Spell deals 3097 Lightning Damage to Target Dummy.

It was activated by single target power.

UPD:

Ok this is really weird. When Storm Spell is activated by single target power, it's damage goes up by 30%.
But when it's activated by AOE the damage is the same as without Focused Wizardry.
So either it's some sort of a bug or it WAI and Focused Wizardry is not so good as I thought for PVE. Still works in PvP tho ;D

Do you guys think it's a bug?

So it seems that Storm Spell is considered Single or Aoe depending on whether the power that activated is Single or Aoe. In the case of Fanning the flames its damage goes down when tabbed, since it's considered Aoe, and goes up when untabbed,since it's considered Single. The same goes for the smolder effect FtF produces.I guess that this means SS and Smolder / FtF have a PvE and a separate PvP mode.

zuthuul

I like the idea of this build a lot, but I'm not sure I want to change from my oppressor. Can anyone give me a pro/con for the two builds?

valencay

zuthuul wrote: »

I like the idea of this build a lot, but I'm not sure I want to change from my oppressor. Can anyone give me a pro/con for the two builds?

I am currently working on an oppressor build that is not yet ready due to some unlucky RNG anyway for the 2 build the most damage comes from storm spell (35% total damage more or less) so the difference is that thauma is specced to do more damage that means feat and passive as well as companions and enchantments while oppressor goes for control and party utility (for example while ENKO is using EOTS as second passive an oppressor would use orb of imposition). basically thaum is dps path that can still have a consistent control while oppressor is control path with consistent dps.
NOTE: changes to freeze are imminent an if they will be how they have been explained it will impact a lot the synergy an oppressor have with thauma, making the second one a much better choice (testing needed)

nipid

zuthuul wrote: »

I like the idea of this build a lot, but I'm not sure I want to change from my oppressor. Can anyone give me a pro/con for the two builds?

With thauma you will deal more damage thats for sure. I'm not sure if you will have more control and if yes it wont be worth it to loose so much damage. For me thauma feats are best with 2 feats in oppressor. We will see later if they change Chilling Control feat position in tree or if they will rework it or nerf Icy Terrain. For now I think this is best build (for me)

spacejew

zuthuul wrote: »

I like the idea of this build a lot, but I'm not sure I want to change from my oppressor. Can anyone give me a pro/con for the two builds?

There is no pro for an Oppressor build in PvE. It does less damage with the exact same amount of control. However, there is an incoming nerf to freeze that is going to seriously shake up what is useful. Basically, with the way it's being laid out, Oppressor will get a huge nerf from it's current 'not useful' state to being absolutely useless while Thaum continues to pull #1 in paingiver while also pumping huge control.

Reasons Oppressor is bad:

Stun overlap from capstone with freeze.
Low damage from Shatter.
Singularity cap & cast speed.
Few boosts to base damage available.

I've tried both Oppressor and Thaum on live as a Spellstorm and Oppressor simply did not do anything useful compared to the giant hit you take to damage. It's at least a 30% drop in damage for no measurable increase in crowd control.

Sorry, done derailing this excellent Thaum build thread.

sheepblack

Nice guide

samothrace22

Terrific build,and it works. Enko does beastly damage

dodgo

what pets?

chemboy613

Enko, really nice guide. I would build a SS cw similarly,

You might want to move some crit into power because of eots, though i haven't tested it in mod 4, I found if SS cw crit rating had little impact in the real crit.

Otherwise, great stuff. If your are short for cn feel free to ask me,