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How should I play the TR in these rough times?
yoadoad
Member Posts: 182 Bounty Hunter
Hello everyone,
I've been playing this game on and off over the last year. In the past, I felt that in PvE I could do high damage (that most classes couldn't compare with) Simply by stealthing, Using the duelist at will, watching how the Momentum and Swashbuckler's set start stacking, and use Lurker's when it was ready. This formula was enough to ensure that with equal gear I could outdamage all other classes, and be the main DPS.
Now I see SW's with lower power, crit rate and AP than me do about 25% more damage if not more, and from RANGE. Yeah, I jump around, avoid red circles (because if I'm in the middle of 2 I'm dead), attack from the back, while he just goes auto-pilot. And his auto-pilot with lower stats seem to do better than me. The thing is, it's not just SW's. My damage doesn't even begin to compare with a CW in a dungeon. Also, in the past, GWF's damage was pitiful, but it seems that now their increased damage and much greater durability make them a better all-around option than me, and some are even better damagers.
So yeah, at the moment I feel like a squishy, not too damaging character whenever I do a dungeon.
In PvP, feels like if I'm out of stealth for more than 3 seconds against an opponent, I'm done. Again, feeling squishy. This means I have to resort to two stealth maintaining skills, and run around a lot.
So how does one play an effective TR right now? Forget the PvP, constant stealth sort of works, what am I supposed to do in PvE, where I don't deal as much damage as the strikers and isn't as durable as the other melee fighters?
I've been playing this game on and off over the last year. In the past, I felt that in PvE I could do high damage (that most classes couldn't compare with) Simply by stealthing, Using the duelist at will, watching how the Momentum and Swashbuckler's set start stacking, and use Lurker's when it was ready. This formula was enough to ensure that with equal gear I could outdamage all other classes, and be the main DPS.
Now I see SW's with lower power, crit rate and AP than me do about 25% more damage if not more, and from RANGE. Yeah, I jump around, avoid red circles (because if I'm in the middle of 2 I'm dead), attack from the back, while he just goes auto-pilot. And his auto-pilot with lower stats seem to do better than me. The thing is, it's not just SW's. My damage doesn't even begin to compare with a CW in a dungeon. Also, in the past, GWF's damage was pitiful, but it seems that now their increased damage and much greater durability make them a better all-around option than me, and some are even better damagers.
So yeah, at the moment I feel like a squishy, not too damaging character whenever I do a dungeon.
In PvP, feels like if I'm out of stealth for more than 3 seconds against an opponent, I'm done. Again, feeling squishy. This means I have to resort to two stealth maintaining skills, and run around a lot.
So how does one play an effective TR right now? Forget the PvP, constant stealth sort of works, what am I supposed to do in PvE, where I don't deal as much damage as the strikers and isn't as durable as the other melee fighters?
Post edited by yoadoad on
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In PvE (which is almost all I do), I like my build, as it focuses on damage first and then deflect. I tried to create a good balance of high Dex, Str, and Cha to mutually increase both damage and deflect chances. I got most boons I could, focusing on damage/power an some on deflect (going back now to grind the last Shar boons - ugh). Anything that can boost your critical damage bonus is good, such as the Dancing Sword companion (active, not summoned). Also go for an Ioun Stone of Allure (summoned all the time) and boost the heck out of it. Most (but not all) of my equipment enchantments boost Power, with some enhancements to both Armor Pen and Critical. If you can afford any level of Vorpal weapon enchantment, go for it - increasing the critical strike damage is a key element!
I am more of a casual player, so I don't have all the high end stuff that some people have (I have only r5-r7 enchantments and a Lesser Vorpal). My overall GS is 13.2k. However, I still am able to do pretty decent damage. I can roll through anything in Sharandar right now solo without any chance of being low on health. I never have to drink a potion, unless I am in some serious combat situation, like the VT end battle. Other than that, my high deflect keeps damage on me low for greatly enhanced survivability.
I enjoy playing with my son, who has a CW that uses Arcane Singularity when we partner up. I make sure that my Dazing Strike encounter attack is ready to go when Arcane Singularity is cast then stun the whole mob once they are clustered in one spot. Pretty fun to daze a large cluster at once - Ghost Stories is an absolute cake walk for the two of us and his GS is only about 11k.
Overall, just have fun with it for now. Get all the boons you can. Get companions with active bonuses that help your critical damage (increase it above the base 75%) and possibly Deflect. Once you get your TR as good as you can, Mod 5 will hopefully turn the TR into a damage machine once more!
Sorry that this is rambling a bit and not super specific, but hopefully it gives you some ideas/inspiration.
I love my TR!
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
Aim for profound armor set / black ice (later)
or you can just do this... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EFif2c5Mf8&list=UUW7jTjMIe6YmDH5XsCa901g
Man, that argument is getting tired and old.
To the OP, two things. First, you need to adjust your expectations. TRs are not kings of DPS anymore. The fact that you were able to top the damage board in a group in Mod 3 is impressive enough. CWs and GWFs have been out damaging more TRs for awhile. Wait for Mod 5 and keep your fingers crossed that they "fix" us in a manner that's similar to how they "fixed" CWs and GFs. Because if they do that to us, it'll be happy days.
Second, before this mod you could get away with a combat build for your TR. It was a lot more work and not nearly as viable as stealth based, but it could work. Nowadays, what's required to make a combat TR actually work in PvP is incredibly daunting. Still possible, but much more difficult. However, you don't need to be true perma stealth to still be effective. Shadow Strike to reflill your stealth bar and ITC to protect you during down times can be enough so you can go with a damage encounter in the third.
The argument is indeed "getting tired and old" but it is a fact, so I was merely giving the OP some brief background as to why the TR's DPS was nerfed.
It is nice you offer some advice, but the OP did not want permstealth or PvP related advice as mentioned in the last sentence of the first post. I have found that it is more fun to avoid that build and go for all the DPS and deflect that you can. At least a TR can feel more "alive" this way, although death will occur a bit more quickly in PvP.
Just waiting for Mod 5 . . . and having as much fun as I can . . .
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
I am regen / deflect
In ToS at the first boss, I did 1 million damage JUST IN THAT ENCOUNTER, with some extra adds pulled along the way.
Then I get on my TR and....do the daily quests and wait for mod5, relogging back to the warlock.
You're exactly right about being in melee range vs distance. My rogue now feels CLUNKY, with odd movements and rolling. Dodging circles in the middle of a DF windup is so annoying. On my lock, i sit back and blast. Our shift movement is so smooth, not clunky at all like the rogue.
I love rogues. I wanted to play a rogue....but, I'm gearing up my SW.
How does this set makes sense for PvE though? Swashbuckler gives more power and tons of recovery. You go from 0 recovery to about 2k recovery just by hitting targets. Profound set gives no recovery at all... Does the extra AP, stealth damage and deflection make up for the loss of recovery?
Also, about Black Ice, it does look like it adds a lot of defense related stats, but is it safe to say TR's don't improve by a lot by using it? Sure, it can turn a squishy TR to be somewhat durable, but in PvP, doesn't the profound set make more sense? 1. Bummer. This is basically "Yeah, there's nothing you can do to be good at PvE".
2. At the moment in terms of team success I feel that perma-stealth works out much better (Contesting nodes, etc). I do agree not both Bait & Switch and Shadow Strike are a must for PvP and using one can work. It is a bummer that as a TR you have so many powers that you think that could be useful in PvP (Lashing blade, dazing strike, deft strike...) but end up pretty bad. Dazing strike is only useful out of stealth, and even then it's not that easy to pull off. Lashing blade does good out of stealth (because of combat advantage and critical), but if your enemy isn't done after that strike, you're probably done. I don't even know how well Lashing blade does in high-end PvP, if I have to guess it loses a lot of it's power...
whats a monger
In practice, you are not going to stay in Stealth while fighting actual mobs as much as you can while smacking a motionless target that doesn't attack back, and you're going to be doing more than just DFing, so IMO Swash is still better with dat power/recovery from the set bonus, but as long as you get your 24% DR ignored and keep your Power up and get some decent recovery you're not really going to hurt yourself with either; it's undeniably cheaper in the long run to maintain just one set of equipment/enchants as well, especially if you're not devoted to one mode.
Keep in mind, too, that while Profound Scoundrel may not give you Recovery, Swashbuckling Captain doesn't give you any Apen. Most of my offense slots have Darks in them because of this. (Why TR doesn't have a stat give DR ignore I'll never know.)
So. My vote is for Swashbuckling Captain, but you aren't going to gimp yourself with Profound Scoundrel at all, and if you do both PvE and PvP a lot it's probably better in the long run to just go Profound and build around that. Honestly PvE is not dependent enough on minmaxing that you must have the BiS everything; having that just makes it easier. It already isn't hard with even slightly decent gear.
Every PvE-focused TR I've played with extensively runs a MI Executioner; is slightly glass cannon, uses low stealth and is working on their Power and has decent recovery. Defense runs the gamut from Deflect focus to Defense focus to a mix of lower amounts of both.
DF is of course the main for PvE, with ItC, Lashing, Dazing Strike, Smoke Bomb and occasionally WR, usually at bosses; occasionally I see Blitz depending on the dungeon. I usually run Dazing/ItC/Lashing, but YMMV.
The glory days of huge damage are gone, but we can still pull out some decent damage. And don't forget that we're a single-target class and pretty much everyone else is AoE; so Paingiver isn't actually that useful a statistic. Power, get your 50% crit chance, get your 24% DR ignored, you're fine as far as PvE goes these days.
My PvE setup currently is swashbuckling captain, and it gives pretty good all-around stats. The yellow powers I use are skillful infiltrator (could be tactics instead) and invisible infiltrator. Encounters are lashing blade, PoTB and Bait and switch. Daily are Whirlwind of blades and lurker assault. The emphasis is on recovery and using daily powers often (Whirlwind if there are 4 or more enemies, lurker if there's a big guy). I run with about 2300 AP (about 200 less than what I need), get over 50% critical (thanks to skillful infiltrator and about 3500 crit rate). Recovery goes to about 2.2k when using flurry. PoTB and Lashing blade help a bit with damage and action point gain, while Bait is 100% for recovery (put one in a red circle and get a lot of action points).
It doesn't work bad, I get my dailies really fast for a TR. There are two problems though:
1. My damage still doesn't compare with SW's or CW's that know how to play. Still, at least I'm not outdamaged by the tank...
2. If I'm off-guard for a second I'm likely to die. Bummer.
Tomorrow I'll start running with Profound scoundrel and test it. With the profound set I'll need to use tenacious concealment and either Skillful or Invisible infiltrator. The skills will probably be similar, though instead of PoTB I could insert ITC and Bait and Switch will be used to extend stealth more than to gain action points.
My hope is that the profound set will make me less squishy because of the increased deflection and stealth. We'll see how it goes.
However, because TR's won't find themselves toping damage charts either way, and because the Profound set is better for PvP (Bonus stealth and damage beat chance recovery in PvP, and the deflection and tenacity increase your survivability), if a person has the profound set there's no reason to get Swashbuckling.
yup no reason to get swash since skulker was released.
coz nerf was so big that dmg is small eather way