test content
  • Games
  • Social
  • Arc News
  • Support
  • Zen
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Forums > Home› Neverwinter Discussion › General Discussion (PC)

Pity the poor new players

drartwhodentdrartwhodent Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 305 Arc User
edited August 2014 in General Discussion (PC)
Can't post in zone or trade chat until level 15?
I understand that this is aimed at the 'gold' spammers, but brand new players are going to be really hurt by this more than them. While I too get frustrated at times over the same questions being asked over and over and over again, especially when the answer(s) are in the quest texts that the questioner(s) have obviously not bothered to fully read, I believe that this new policy may have a deleterious effect upon truly new mmo players that don't know their way around, and may (probably?) cause some to just quit in frustration.

Is it truly so hard to write an algorithm that bans / silences spammers after x number of people 'report spammer' on them?
Or, even better, if they post the EXACT same message that x number of spammers have already been reported for, then ban / silence them even before the rest of us see that spam message again.
This would slow / stop the spammers better, in my opinion, than this new level 15 requirement. Bots can run the tutorials and Foundries to get to 15 too easily. This new policy is NOT going to have any effect in the long run except to chase away new players.
DON'T
PANIC!
Post edited by drartwhodent on
«1

Comments

  • dreamhuntressxdreamhuntressx Member Posts: 453 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    As if it is uber hard to achieve lvl 15. U can reach it in like half a hour, even less, legit. IMO, a better way to prevent bots is just what u just said: The tutorial area. A simple quest, with a question or something ramdom, with multiples choices (like 20 or so), generated everysingle time u talk with the NPC or w/e works, should help a LOT against em, as theyll stay stuck in this level and the channels there are separated from the other channels. Should be enough to give em a hard time.
    Leanan Sidhe (not "The Dresde Files" fairy!) - NW Legit Channel Moderator
    NW Legit Channel Rules | NW Legit Forum Rules
    NW Legit Leanan Rules
  • frishterfrishter Member Posts: 3,522 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Kind of have to agree that I don't see it affecting the sellers but may turn off new players who may have questions and now may feel isolated. Plus bots have already resorted to sending tells which I find more annoying than zone messages which I usually have in a separate tab.
  • kvetkvet Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,700 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Most of those aren't actual bots though. While a Turing test would weed most if not all out, the problem is a lot of those scammers aren't actually bots. They're people who create accounts, get through the initial stuff, then spam in Zone/Trade/Friend Request/Mail until the account is banned.. then wash-rinse-repeat. What this does is make it take a bit longer (therefore makes it less cost effective) for the goldsellers to get their new accounts in a position to start spamming.

    There's, unfortunately, plenty of other global channels (LFG + any number of large public user-created channels) they can turn too though.

    I'm not saying a turring test would be a bad thing, but it will not solve the problem, or really even slow it down.

    Existing players making new alts probably already have guilds or other channels they already use (if not... you should...). For brand new players -- yes -- I see this as a turn-off, but the vast majority of brand new players will spend the bulk of their time at under 15 getting used to the game rather than just hopping in being social anyway and getting to lvl 15 is not even close to hard. And by that point, a player that has questions will have had a chance to answer the really easy ones on their own anyway.

    Sekhmet@kvetchus_
    Guilds: Greycloaks, Blackcloaks, Whitecloaks, Goldcloaks, Browncloaks, Spiritcloaks, Bluecloaks, Silvercloaks, Black Dawn
    Tredecim: The Cloak Alliance
  • berylgreenberylgreen Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 66
    edited August 2014
    I have had new players approach me, asking questions using "Say". This was before the new patch. I really think a truly new player is not going to know about Zone or Trade chat, right away, until they see it.

    Most of the spam in PE has been done by very low level characters, on newly created accounts. I doubt they are going to try to level to 15, only to be reported and banned almost immediately. I could be wrong, however - who knows how much their bosses are paying them to post ads in games all day? Would it be per post, or hourly? ;)
  • angryspriteangrysprite Member Posts: 4,982 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    New players will come, they will see, they will stay or leave based on the interest of the game's merits as a GAME. They will not leave in frustration over some silly chat restriction, and the only restriction is from ZONE chat and TRADE chat.

    What genuinely new player would ever want to chat in the TRADE channel? As for ZONE chat - it's nothing. So they they chat in the default "Say" channel. NEW players (the same new players the OP speaks of) will want to chat with the player they see virtually standing next to them so zone chat is unnecessary and only adds more confusion.

    Seriously: if this is a "concern" of yours then you really just don't give people any intellectual credit at all do you? And if someone actually DOES quit in frustration over some silly non-starter as Zone Chat restriction then chances are that's not a player we want being here to begin with.

    Frankly I find it to be a conceited, elitist attitude to even allow such a "concern" to enter your minds. It's "greater than thou" attitude that you're above others because they are so fragile and helpless that they'd get "frustrated' at such a restriction. Seriously, give people the credit they deserve. New players may not all be geniuses like you, but they aren't utter morons, either.
  • evileyecurseevileyecurse Member Posts: 38
    edited August 2014
    I don't think new players won't be affected by this at all as the content is very straightforward and not that confusing at least from level 1 through 15. I do think its a great update to lessen spammers in zone chat.
  • valwrynvalwryn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,620 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I remember when I was a Newbie. The first thing I learned was to turn off the Zone chat. The last thing a newbie wants to hear are many sailors complaining about something. If ye are so concerned about newbies, start a new chat channel: "Newbies_R_Us" :p
    Top_Line2.jpg
    Neverwinter Wonderland
    Neverwinter Wet & Wild
    Neverwinter 2nd Anniversary Montage
    Neverwinter Anniversary Montage
    Protector's Jubilee Speech
    Oh the Carnage
  • myowmyowmyowmyow Member Posts: 1,923 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    angrysprite wrote: »
    Frankly I find it to be a conceited, elitist attitude to even allow such a "concern" to enter your minds. It's "greater than thou" attitude that you're above others because they are so fragile and helpless that they'd get "frustrated' at such a restriction. Seriously, give people the credit they deserve. New players may not all be geniuses like you, but they aren't utter morons, either.

    You seem to be sensitive to elitism in places I don't see it. This thread was just someone's concern for new players. If anything, that makes the OP more compassionate and caring than "elitist." You are confusing me.
    SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! (repeat indefinitely)


    myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
    pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
    looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
  • lionmaruu0lionmaruu0 Member Posts: 327 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    anyone that cant achieve lvl 15 in one, maybe two hours of actually playing the game have nothing worthy to say about anything, thats the best decision cryptic ever made.

    if being over lvl 15 is elitism I think everyone on this game but the spambots are elite then...
  • mehguy138mehguy138 Member Posts: 1,803 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    New players usually ask in zone chat about races, classes, viable choices, some basic game questions like is there PvP or smth, I think I'd be frustrated by this change as a new player. I know they should use forums blah blah blah...
    M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
  • sexwax45sexwax45 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    A untrained monkey could lvl to 15 in a few mins, not that big of a challenge, and if someone is having a problem getting to 15 theirs no way their gonna make it to 60 so this is not really even an issue (its only in your heads). Good change hopefully it works in reducing spam.
  • myowmyowmyowmyow Member Posts: 1,923 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    dreamhuntressx wrote: »
    As if it is uber hard to achieve lvl 15. U can reach it in like half a hour, even less, legit. IMO, a better way to prevent bots is just what u just said: The tutorial area. A simple quest, with a question or something ramdom, with multiples choices (like 20 or so), generated everysingle time u talk with the NPC or w/e works, should help a LOT against em, as theyll stay stuck in this level and the channels there are separated from the other channels. Should be enough to give em a hard time.

    If you can reach level 15 in a half-hour, you are exploiting something. Heck it takes a solid 5 minutes just to get through the tutorial if you ignore the NPC chat! Since you don't have a mount, movement is pretty slow at lower levels. It takes another 2 minutes just to get to Sgt. Knox and the guy that gives you your peasant clothes. Then you have to run a couple of PE dungeons and complete the Blacklake District, where you should be about level 9. You would then have to complete the Tower District to reach level 15.

    You are exaggerating for impact, which is something that terribly annoys me, since you are quoting this as some sort of fact in response to the OP's statements.

    My guess is that with all the slow walking around (no mount) and completing quests as quickly as possible, hitting level 15 should take at least 1.5 hours, if not 2 solid hours of play. Just saying . . .
    SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! (repeat indefinitely)


    myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
    pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
    looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
  • myowmyowmyowmyow Member Posts: 1,923 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    sexwax45 wrote: »
    A untrained monkey could lvl to 15 in a few mins, not that big of a challenge, and if someone is having a problem getting to 15 theirs no way their gonna make it to 60 so this is not really even an issue (its only in your heads). Good change hopefully it works in reducing spam.

    You, too. Quit with the extreme exaggeration. Ugh.
    SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! (repeat indefinitely)


    myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
    pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
    looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
  • angryspriteangrysprite Member Posts: 4,982 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    myowmyow wrote: »
    You seem to be sensitive to elitism in places I don't see it. This thread was just someone's concern for new players. If anything, that makes the OP more compassionate and caring than "elitist." You are confusing me.

    That's a fair point. If there is elitism I guess it would not be intentional elitism. I am simply saying I think it's unfair to the new user to whom the compassion is being directed at to think so lowly of them that they need the compassion to begin with. But I do take your perspective to heart: you are right that I am unfairly injecting an attitude where there is no conscious affect of it and is my own misdirected observation.

    In which case I officially and publicly apologize to you and the OP for inferring something I should not have. Though I still feel the same way, it was wrong of me to phrase it that way, so I'll leave it like this: I think it's unfair and possibly an insult to feel sorry for people when they themselves will feel they don't need to be felt sorry for.

    (I think I am becoming too jaded in this place) :)
  • pointsmanpointsman Member Posts: 2,327 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Too many of us here seem have forgotten what it was like being a brand new player in a brand new game, perhaps in their first MMO ever.

    I'll tell you, when I first started, I really had no idea what I was doing. I would die all the time even in the beginning Blacklake quests. I did ask questions and got some helpful advice. I don't agree with this change either. It's really a change that hurts the new players merely so that the veterans are slightly less annoyed by gold spammer messages. The correct answer is to go after the spammers, not go after new legit players.
  • myowmyowmyowmyow Member Posts: 1,923 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    lionmaruu0 wrote: »
    anyone that cant achieve lvl 15 in one, maybe two hours of actually playing the game have nothing worthy to say about anything, thats the best decision cryptic ever made.

    if being over lvl 15 is elitism I think everyone on this game but the spambots are elite then...

    Nice - a breath of realistic fresh air! Thanks!
    SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! (repeat indefinitely)


    myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
    pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
    looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
  • myowmyowmyowmyow Member Posts: 1,923 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    angrysprite wrote: »
    That's a fair point. If there is elitism I guess it would not be intentional elitism. I am simply saying I think it's unfair to the new user to whom the compassion is being directed at to think so lowly of them that they need the compassion to begin with. But I do take your persecutive at heart: you are right that I am unfairly injecting an attitude where there is no conscious affect of it, and is my misdirected observation.

    In which case I hereby officially and publicly apologize to you and the OP for inferring something I should not have.

    (I think I am becoming too jaded in this place) :)

    Cool! And I can definitely understand about becoming "jaded" here in the forums . . . :)
    SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! (repeat indefinitely)


    myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
    pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
    looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
  • myowmyowmyowmyow Member Posts: 1,923 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    pointsman wrote: »
    Too many of us here seem have forgotten what it was like being a brand new player in a brand new game, perhaps in their first MMO ever.

    I'll tell you, when I first started, I really had no idea what I was doing. I would die all the time even in the beginning Blacklake quests. I did ask questions and got some helpful advice. I don't agree with this change either. It's really a change that hurts the new players merely so that the veterans are slightly less annoyed by gold spammer messages. The correct answer is to go after the spammers, not go after new legit players.

    Well said . . . well said.
    SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! (repeat indefinitely)


    myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
    pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
    looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
  • sexwax45sexwax45 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Everyone who is saying that its hurting the new player are hypocrites, you are assuming that new players will have a problem with this, because a. you yourself had problems getting to lvl 15 or b. you think that new players will have problems because their new. Until I hear any info from a "New Player" saying that this affected them, its all just speculation you've drummed up to get all forum QQ posty about it.
  • silverkeltsilverkelt Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,235 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I would think the vast exploited AD market, highly inflated AH market, Lack of availability of cwards, Gear , Class gating and epeeners would have about 10000X more of a negative impact then not being able to zone chat until lvl 15.. which you can defiantly do, non twinked in about a hour worth of time, maybe two at most.

    Anyone who has ever played , like any other mmo in the last twenty years has seen restrictions similar to this, no big deal.

    edited add, in fact, thinking about it, it might DO well for players not to hear some of you until lvl 20 =P ...

    I joke.. =P
  • myowmyowmyowmyow Member Posts: 1,923 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    sexwax45 wrote: »
    Everyone who is saying that its hurting the new player are Hippocrates, you are assuming that new players will have a problem with this, because a. you yourself had problems getting to lvl 15 or b. you think that new players will have problems because their new. Until I hear any info from a "New Player" saying that this affected them, its all just speculation you've drummed up to get all forum QQ posty about it.

    It sounded like genuine concern from the OP to me and it is his opinion. Everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion. However, you make some broad (and negative) assumptions about the OP with your statements. Time to change "what's in your pipe" and get a little more positive about things, like the OP having genuine concern for new players. :) :P
    SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! (repeat indefinitely)


    myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
    pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
    looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
  • lewstelamon01lewstelamon01 Member Posts: 7,415 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    sexwax45 wrote: »
    Everyone who is saying that its hurting the new player are Hippocrates, you are assuming that new players will have a problem with this, because a. you yourself had problems getting to lvl 15 or b. you think that new players will have problems because their new. Until I hear any info from a "New Player" saying that this affected them, its all just speculation you've drummed up to get all forum QQ posty about it.

    Either autocorrect strikes again or we should all be honored to be compared to such a great doctor....

    FYI: Please note that unless related to D&D or Neverwinter, images and memes are not allowed.
    ROLL TIDE ROLL

    Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?

    PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
  • sexwax45sexwax45 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    lewstelamon01 wrote: »
    Either autocorrect strikes again or we should all be honored to be compared to such a great doctor....

    FYI: Please note that unless related to D&D or Neverwinter, images and memes are not allowed.

    lol darn u auto-correct, edited to say hypocrites ty
  • lewstelamon01lewstelamon01 Member Posts: 7,415 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    sexwax45 wrote: »
    lol darn u auto-correct, edited to say hypocrites ty

    There's a website for that :D

    Anywho, back on topic...
    ROLL TIDE ROLL

    Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?

    PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
  • saidencloudsaidencloud Member Posts: 80 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Think of this as an opportunity, the guilds who like helping and recruiting new players can do so better in the first two districts. They might not be able to reply through zone or tell but you can zone chat for newbies to come to you in x instance to join a helpful guild
    <SHADRA> Guild House currently open: NW-DBSTUHWLT
  • doriangreighdoriangreigh Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 707 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I can think of NO reason what so ever to need to be looking at zone or any chat channel under level 20. Its really not until you get the artifact quest that you might run into trouble. I can't remember what level the first dungeon is, Cloak Tower is the only reason someone would use zone chat because you just can't queue for CT and expect to get in. Most of my early dungeon runs prior to 60 are standing at the entrance of the dungeon in said zone and asking if anyone is up for that dungeon. I have placed myself in queue and waited hours before getting into a dungoen. Sometimes I didn't even get a dungeon until the weekend.

    But frankly I support this, as long as I can still see my guildies talk in guild channel.
  • frishterfrishter Member Posts: 3,522 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    sexwax45 wrote: »
    Everyone who is saying that its hurting the new player are hypocrites, you are assuming that new players will have a problem with this, because a. you yourself had problems getting to lvl 15 or b. you think that new players will have problems because their new. Until I hear any info from a "New Player" saying that this affected them, its all just speculation you've drummed up to get all forum QQ posty about it.

    Well I've already seen bot spam so clearly it's not really done its job. While there's a clear restriction on legit players. You think out of all the new players that may want to play this game that none will be annoyed at the inability to chat?
  • ixalmarisixalmaris Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    In the end the only one affected by this will be legitimate players. Spammers will find a way around it.
    And new players will certainly feel very welcome when restrictions like this are placed on them. It really fosters the community when you prevent new people from speaking to the "elite" till they have proven themselves.
  • nameexpirednameexpired Member Posts: 1,282 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Zone Chat in the 3 starter Zones EXCEPT PE would be a good thing IMHO.

    You might want to get groups for skirmishes and DD

    The real problem is PE, where the spammers have a HUGE audience (=market penetration) due to the forced presence of everyone for banking/mail/Lords dailies and now even for the dragon quests.

    Decrease the audience for sub L15 players ... only sub L15 players can read sub L15 players in the starter zone, Blacklake and Tower district. No Zone stuff in PE for sub L15.
    Just an idea ... would still expose L15 players to gold spammers, but a smaller market share might already decrease the interest of gold spammers.
    Imaginary Friends are the best friends you can have!
  • darmazafdarmazaf Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 10
    edited August 2014
    Going to lvl 15 is done in less than a day of gameplay so it's not really a offense for new players and just a small anoyence for gold spammers.
This discussion has been closed.