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Clerics in D&D 4e PnP vs. Clerics in NWO

arontimesarontimes Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
edited August 2014 in The Temple
I have fourteen characters, two of each class, none of them Leadership mules. My two clerics are a tiefling anointed champion and a half-elf divine oracle. Of the two, I played the AC more, but I am currently focusing on my DO. I primarily play solo PvE content, mainly campaign stuff, as well as PvP Domination, and it is a difficult experience compared to the other classes.

This is quite different from PnP, where clerics are the best healers and the second best buffers. I thought about the stuff that clerics can do in PnP that they can't do in NWO, and here is a non-exhaustive list:

1. Surgeless healing. Most healing abilities in 4e require the expenditure of a healing surge, which is a limited resource that represents a character's reserves of strength. Expending a healing surge heals 1/4 of your HP, in addition to any effects the power that let you spend a surge does. You only get a limited number of surges per day, after which surge-based healing only heals 1 HP per use. What makes the cleric the best healer is that he has healing powers that don't require healing surges. This means that a cleric can heal much more HP than other leader classes which are dependent on healing surges for their heals.

In Neverwinter, clerics are the best healers, but they are horrible at healing themselves. Nothing in 4e says that a cleric's healing powers are less effective on himself. Since smart players target the healer first, clerics will go down very quickly, which means that they get to spend less time healing their allies.

Suggestion: Remove the Righteousness class feature and make cleric heals just as effective on themselves as on others.

2. Radiant damage. The various divine classes in 4e have easy access to radiant damage. Radiant damage deals extra damage to most undead, which makes clerics really good against a zombie apocalypse. They also get Turn Undead, which is like an extra encounter power that works against undead.

In NWO, damage types are rarely relevant. One reason for this is that certain enemies that can only be killed by specific damage types would be unkillable by certain classes. For example, trolls will not die unless finished off with acid or fire damage, which disqualifies over half the playable classes in Neverwinter.

However, a compromise could be made to implement this one shtick of the cleric in NWO. Implement damage vulnerabilities but not damage resistances. For example, undead would take increased damage from radiant powers (most cleric powers in NWO), while trolls would suffer the same drawback against fire damage. You would still be able to kill these monsters with other damage types. This will allow clerics a chance to shine as damage dealers in undead-heavy dungeons. Hint: Dracoliches are undead!

3. Ritual casting. Rituals are non combat spells that provide a wide variety of utility effects. Example rituals include Enchant Magic Item (make magic items), Disenchant Magic Item (basically the salvage feature in NWO), Linked Portal (teleport to a permanent teleportation circle, think Town Portal from Blizzard games), Raise Dead (resurrection spell), etc. Clerics get Ritual Casting as a bonus feat, which saves them two feats compared to a class that doesn't start with it (Ritual Casting requires Arcana, so you have to burn a feat on Arcana in addition to Ritual Caster if you don't have the Arcana skill). This means that clerics can perform utility magic to make their party members' lives more convenient.

I don't know how this could be implemented into Neverwinter. Maybe clerics get to revive allies without revive sickness? I'm open to any ideas.

Perhaps having one of more of these PnP cleric features in Neverwinter would make the class more useful. What do you think?
Member of Grievance.

Taking a break from Neverwinter indefinitely...
Post edited by arontimes on

Comments

  • tyrtallowtyrtallow Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 747 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Soloing should not be a difficult experience for a DC. Between Daunting Light, Searing Light, Chains, Sunburst, Divine Glow and Forgemaster's Flame you have various options that allow you to tackle difficult fights more effectively than other classes. You will not be killing things as fast as AoE damage monsters like CWs or soloing the harder HEs, but you definitely shouldn't be struggling. The DC's AoE burst damage potential is massive, the main problem with it is that it requires proper setup/aiming due to the way our strongest nukes, Daunting and Searing Light, work. Chains helps tremendously with that.
    Good DCs should be breezing through any solo fight with 5 or more mobs in it, given the sheer destructive power of divine Searing Light. It also helps that any dedicated DC should have the DC sigil artifact - double dailies (HG, Flame Strike) should be standard issue. If you're not doing enough damage to kill non-boss somethings given the full 30ish second duration of double HG (+30% damage and mitigation) then there is something wrong your character or the mobs he/she is fighting.

    The NWO DC was designed to be a dynamic and versatile character who specializes in powerful damage buffs and party support through incoming damage mitigation as well as healing. It can even be argued that healing is secondary, since pretty much everything it does "heals" anyway. Mitigation, on the other hand, also increases the value of stats like HP, Regen and Lifesteal and effects like healing from potions/powers. Think of it as a survivability multiplier. This is what gives DCs the freedom to do whatever else it wants as long as it meets the baseline amount of support required by most parties - essentially this translates to the use of A.Seal/A.Shield and the buffing dailies (high end parties require even less). The three paragon feat paths reflect this - Virtuous rewards a cleric who decides to spend the rest of its time attacking (which doesn't mean the same thing as trying to be a striker), Faithful rewards a cleric who decides to spend the rest of its time healing/overhealing (grants various buffs from heals) and Righteous, the "tactical" path, is more of a "me" spec, with the most feats that directly benefit the DC itself rather than just its teammates.
    I see nothing wrong with NWO's implementation of the DC - the reason I play a DC is solely because I believe NWO's version is sheer genius - but given mod 3 and 4 changes it badly needs an update. The meta has changed considerably, and though the basic playstyle remains amazing actually playing the class is getting less and less rewarding, especially for healbot-types apparently.

    Anyway changes-wise the devs are already working on major class overhauls/rebalances. That's how we got the new CW/GF/GWF. According to a post they've already started working on implementing significant changes to DC and TR powers/feats, we'll have to wait and see how that works out and then test the result in preview.
    You there. New to the game? Feeling overwhelmed? Maybe you think getting to end-game is impossible for a casual player like yourself, or maybe you just need to be around a community that helps each other stay sane and competitive with the latest news, current trends, random chitchat and most of all LEGIT (that is, we try to keep things fair) gameplay. If you don't mind being around quirky people and the rare occasional drama (one of our prominent TR members is apparently a mafia godfather) join nw_legit_community at http://www.nwlegitcommunity.shivtr.com/forum_threads/2330542.
  • zshikarazshikara Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 796 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I'm personally looking forward to seeing how my DC changes. I love the way things work now, but I find myself focusing on healing less if there is a SW or two in the group.
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