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Post GWF PvP Tree and Build
nezraal
Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
I had been struggling, trying to find the right combination for GWF tree in Mod4. This is what I am following, IV > Destroyer. Note the results come from a "losing" game with a score of 1000-400. I am still trying to learn and improve since most of the guides are out of date. I am a new comer and using simply 4x Grim Sentinel with 13k Gear . I am using a halfling with 23% crit rate, 40k HP, 20% x 3 PvP Resistance, all offensive slot poured into Armour Pen.
Base stats are: 19 Str 24 Con 19 Dex
Encounter : TR > Take Down > IBS > Front Line Surge > TR > Sure Strike and repeat - that's it.
Bravery, Weapon Master and Indomitable Strength and Savage Advance.
Please share yours so new comers like me can build from it. I run for pots whenever my hp starts dipping below 30%. Suggestions are welcome for improvement. Please share yours, along with the rotation and build.
Base stats are: 19 Str 24 Con 19 Dex
Encounter : TR > Take Down > IBS > Front Line Surge > TR > Sure Strike and repeat - that's it.
Bravery, Weapon Master and Indomitable Strength and Savage Advance.
Please share yours so new comers like me can build from it. I run for pots whenever my hp starts dipping below 30%. Suggestions are welcome for improvement. Please share yours, along with the rotation and build.
Post edited by nezraal on
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no matter how much you build your GWF, OP CW is OP.
OK for the sentinel feats. Unstoppable recovery not that good now so go for DPS, you've to hit and run now.
On heroic i'd go for the sprint feat over one of the DPS feats. You deal zero DPS if you're dead and sprint is your best friend now in pvp, and you'll still hit hard.
For gear i'm using 2 grim sentinel 2 purified black ice ( helm and gloves for overload slots) but full purifed black ice plus pvp ring set is better, i just don't have it yet. The combo i'm using i think si better than 4 grim...gives the overload enchants, good stats and hp from black ice and stuff. Grim full set bonus is not that good...
Using greater barkshield and plaguefire. With plaguefire you don't really need the point in deep gash.
Passives: bravery si a must. Other i use trample of the fallen.
I've tested Perma-Runner on preview, wasn't that good.
@pando83 and cerberbot thank you both for your feedback. You are absolutely correct about the gear set to go Purified Black Ice set. I think all the GWF are 100% on this for P.BI Set for PvP.
Enchants:
Plaguefire and DeepGash - because of my lack of knowledge can you elaborate a little more on this topic. And also, what should be a desirable armor penetration ?
Soulforged vs Barkshield - @Pando since you are running Barkshield, can you explain to me, which one is more desirable and why.
Play Style:
Destroyer vs Sentinel - @cerberobot - your preference is Sentinel, can you share your tree and build ? And why this in your opinion, is better than Destroyer with Perma-runner (as pando is suggesting). Or are you both suggesting to switch to sentinel ? Can you share your sentinel tree?
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Barckshield is clearly better than Soulforged in PvP atm, when you get killed and you have Soulforged, your ennemy will obviously wait and instant you the next second. Barckshield offers shields during all the fight.
Sentinel is better. Don't dream, Destroyer can't be viable in PvP. I'm PvE so I'm Destroyer, and I'll keep being Destroyer PvE until Instigator is not reworked (as I said in some threads, http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?692681-Official-Feedback-Thread-Great-Weapon-Fighter-Changes/page90 check the changes I propose).
Sentinel is Tank PvE/PvP
Destroyer is PvE DPS
Instigator MUST BE PvP DPS.
Destroyer can't be viable in PvP, simply because you are not tanky and don't deal enough damages either, you almost never can stack your Final Feat. Perma-Runner is just a worthless perma-stealth TR, much worse, you just run but you still takes damages and you deal nothing.
I was the first in Preview server using the Perma-Running, thought it could be good, but when you're more than 1v1 you're so hard ****ed, you only run, you are useless for team (never cap and don't deal enough damages). A perma-stealth TR is the same thing but he is safe and can deal in range.
Pando is saying "OK for the sentinel feats. Unstoppable recovery not that good now so go for DPS, you've to hit and run now." and on the other hand you are saying Destro is too squishy.
What features highlights more PvP viable favoring Sentinels over Destroyer for IV or vice versa, since you favor sentinel, can you point them out ? To both of you and any GWF if you had a choice between IV > Dest or IV > Sentinel which one would you choose?
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Sentinel, in a normal situation ( let's say cws fixed, blue dragon glyph fixed), i'd use it if i want to be a brawler. Which is how se used to play gwf till now.
Destro is viable but requires tons of skills and is pretty much a runner that jumps into the enemy back lines, hits hard, run away, and repeat. You do not brawl, you do not go not even 2 v 1. I'm still testing destro, i only pug and i'm 16k gs, but made it to page 9 despite the cws and bugged enchants. If there were not tons of newb cws melting people in 4 seconds right now, i'd do better.
Depends on your playstyle. I like DPS and challenging smart survival. Some like to brawl and need more tankyness. At high end pvp usually tankyness>>>>DPS but with current changes you must kill first or you die, no matter show tanky you are...
Also, what is your opinion on using roar instead of FLS?
i.e TR > Takedown > IBS > Roar > TR > Sure Strike(s) and repeat. 25% seem like a lot of cool down. Is this any good?
Additionally how does your tree look? Can you give us a screen shot or a link?
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My GWF has just over 6 sec cooldown on Takedown and just over 2 when I miss.Roar is 7.6 sec cooldown (I don't use it but the feat reduces its cooldown as well) Like Pando I play my GWF in that same style. Blitz the back line of the enemy team, Hit and Run and still get involved in Brawls, but always keep your eye on everything around you so you can switch who you are targeting and add to your teams effectiveness in combat. Make use of Any where you can LoS people.
It not only reduces the cool down but increases the damage on both Roar and Takedown, and increases the duration of Battle Fury. It is win win!
PVPer rocking it Solo queue style since the dawn of Neverwinter
can you or pando create a link for your tree and list the encounters that you are using ?
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Thank you sir, back to office work for me as well. I appreciate all the help.
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I think this is pretty accurate to what I have, but I can't get in game to check. Not sure if I still have deep gash or not, the link shows with all Scale Defense for 5%deflect instead of Deep Gash.
http://nwcalc.com/gwf?b=cn4:13ydj4:13ydj4,12ikw0i:100000:1uuuu1:1z0000&h=0&p=smr
I personally use Encounters as such:
Punishing Charge, Mighty Leap(or Battlefury), Takedown
PC and take down are always on my bar.
at wills: Sure Strike and Weapon Masters Strike (I am Sword Master)
Dailys: Spinning Strike and Crescendo
Class Features are: Always Bravery, and sometimes Steadfast Determination or Steel Defense or Steel blitz
Sun Elf, High STR (dmg and stamina regen YES PLZ) and INT (cooldown reduction) and Con
Bonus Ap gen for Sun Elf, and Bonus resistance of 10% to CC effects, it all works well with this play style
I concentrated on my Recovery stat for further AP generation and cool down reduction
Now why Punishing Charge you might ask?
It is the king of AP generation for GWF. Especially in a big fight with multiple people to hit with it. Also it is an instantaneous gap close that deals damage as well. Allowing you to keep sure striking your target a lot quick than just sprinting would. On top of that some people think of it as you sprinting so they don't try to CC you. Thus saving that much stamina to use for burst sprinting.
With High Int and recovery your Punishing Charge stacks come back at about 6.5 or so seconds per charge instead of 8 seconds.
But hands down one of my favorite and most under rated GWF skills.
Another bonus to it is if someone knocks you back or down or prone while you are PCing you still end up flying in the direction that you were PCing. This in it self makes people miss there next attack because they expect you to be where they initially knocked you down.
The burst sprinting timing is the biggest part of whether you will love or hate this.
Mighty Leap is great because you can use it to dodge attacks and cover a good amount of ground. Getting used to timing this to avoid CC is also Key.
Mighty Leap for me is around 10 Seconds cooldown.
Takedown... for obvious reasons. Really low cool down for me with 20 Intelligence and high recovery, on top of the feat redcution.
Always good to have one skill that can make people stay put for a second. Also just above 2 seconds for a cooldown if I miss.
Base cool down for me is about 6.4 seconds.
Since Destros are kind of squishy compared to other types of warriors the AP generation is key to making Steel Defense make you in to a beast who shrugs off all damage for 5 seconds.
When you have 100% AP and in a fight with lots of people, you will want to use Spinning Strike. But the key is to shift sprint and cancel it after about 2 rotations. This will proc the Steel Defense effect for 5 second Immunity to ALL DAMAGE. And leave you with about 70% of your AP left over.
Punishing Charge through people and hit them while Unstoppable (Extra Ap gain) to get your AP back to 100% in a matter of seconds.
Then you have the option to Spin Strike for 5 second immunity again if you need to. OR you can Crescendo someone in the face lol xD.
Use this when you feel that you need to have some extra tankiness. If you don't feel like you need the extra defense (5 sec dmg immunity) Then I usually go with Steadfast if I want more Unstoppable(Which gives more AP gen + Keeps Destro Purpose up), or Steel Blitz when I want the extra free proc damage.
Also make sure to use a wep enchant that puts a DoT on people. Every tick of the DoT will stack your Destroyer's Purpose and get you that extra 40% damage REALLY fast.
Let me know if you want to know any more about the play style, I'd be happy to help!
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I could see it being really good if the gear you are getting is lacking in Recovery and/or Deflect.
Or even if it has good deflect extra deflect is always good. But if you are near the recovery cap (not that there is a true one to my knowledge but what you get for the points you put in to it starts to diminish greatly after a certain point) I wouldn't use them for that.
High AP gain is a main focus for My Gwf, along with the greatest reduction in cool downs I can get (STR & INT based GWF)
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INT vs STR, CON or CON DEX
I don't think GWF should be focusing on INT. The focus should remain either on STR, CON or CON,DEX and I prefer CON DEX, it gives me nearly 38% deflection and 41K HP, Critical Rate on 13k gear score. The benefits from STR CON or CON, DEX out weigh cool down from INT. So I have to disagree there.
Racial
For reasons stated above racially a GWF should be
1. Halfling - +2 DEX,CON, 10% CC resist
2. Orc - for severity
3. Human - 3 feats + 3% defense
4. Dragonborn - Regeneration, +2 DEX,CON or +2 STR,CON
I think as a GWF one should ever abandon CON as it's important to survive in PvP. GWF should be bit of a brawler, otherwise I think there are better options for similar game play with TR & SW.
Encounter
IBS is a must. I value this over any other encounter, so I have to disagree here also.
Takedown is also a must, why (see screenshot below) ?
so TD > IBS is an important combo feat. The developers are highlighting this and this will always be the intention for use. The question is, what else is better ? Here are the possibilities:
1. Battle Fury + Takedown > IBS ? Possible only with 25% cooldown. (Pando build)
2. FLS ? Possible. Extra stun time can help land at least 1 TR and 2 Sure Strikes (my build, as posted in first post) - this helped me get to page 39 with only a 13k gear score.
3. Roar + Takedown, IBS , I don't know.
Senitnel or Destroyer
Sentinel - Consider the CW bug fixed, no more 3 second nukes. GWF will survive marginally better in team fights. Ideally this is great if your team has a lot of ranged class CW/HR and also DC, I don't expect to do much damage but I can use my CCs and soak damage for my team.
With new boons it's possible for GWF to hit 50k HP, 35%+ Deflect, 20% tenacity and 1500+ regeneration. Even with a weaker unstoppable this doesn't seem too bad, hypothetically.
Destroyer - harass back lanes. Works better vs. CW, HR and TR on 1v1 but under performs in team fights. Except vs GF ... which will murder you - just run. It may even be worth going with the corrupted ice set or profound gear. I don't know.
Which of the two is better ? I don't know. Hope I didn't sound rude / offensive - if I did, I apologize.
Pando is using some heavy cool down and already hit page 9. So he's obviously doing something that works and I am very very curious to test out his mechanics and rotation. I am eagerly waiting to see the details of his build.
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I just posted what I am doing. If people want to try it they are welcome to. I am never and will never claim that something is the best/better.
No you didn't come across as rude at all. And I understand why you feel that way about everything you mention.
My Bar changes within matches based on what I feel I need. I have IBS maxed out and I am not afraid to pull it out if I need to.
Take down, for me, is a must because it has such a rapid cool down for me and my other powers aren't stuns. I don't care for Flourish, and don't have FLS. I like to have one on my bar, especially when it is that fast.
For me quicker cool down = quicker AP gain and quicker Unstoppable meter gain. Which I use for Spin Strike sprint cancel 5 sec damage immunity. (The amount of encounters you can tank with in 5 secs will turn the fight in your favor every time. Your enemies most powerful attacks will be on cool down after having no effect on you)
My GWF, like my other characters are all experiments because that is all that keeps me interested in this game. I have discovered so many random things because I always try random build ideas. While it won't suffice for people that want to min/max on paper.
When you put it to use you would be surprised how well you can make it work.
My GWF has 17STR 19DEX 19CON 20INT Made sacrifices to get as much INT as I could because it fit the idea. Being Destro helps make up for damage and the Mobility , CC immunity, and Damage Immunity capability help make up for the lower CON. 5 seconds of immunity in a heated fight will tank more damage than that extra CON ever could. I actually feel pretty tanky after I get my AP bar filled just once, I can keep recycling 70% of it for quick charge and more Steel Defense procs.
I wanted to see how much that extra cool down reduction would help. And I wanted to try a super Mobile style and build instead of a CC Burst Damage set up that was the current Meta. Sun Elf fit my idea better, extra AP gain (even though small amount) and 10% extra resist to CC sounded interesting
Again I am not telling people what to do, only responding with what I have been doing - as I feel a super Mobile GWF will be really effective in PvP
PVPer rocking it Solo queue style since the dawn of Neverwinter
Takedown -> IBS will always be a good combo. As Will FLS -> IBS, or any stun/control into IBS.
With the mobility and practice though, you will be able to land IBS on people even if they aren't controlled. You will get good at predicting where they are dodging too, get there super quick and the IBS will hit them before they can dodge again. Or once you get used to it, you wait until they use their last dodge (CW=3, TR=2, HR= 5-6?) You being in there face endlessly is sure to make them mess up what they are trying to do. That is the true beauty of the build. That and print burst timing making all of their CC useless.
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Out of curiosity, if you are building AP, why not take the 5 points feat into Savage Advance (15 sec cooldown, based on the feedback in your tree link) and roll out IBS?
1.Spam Punishing Charge and strikes to build AP
2. On filled bar, TD > IBS > Savage Advance (15 sec cd from feat) and repeat.
20% TR Mark and 15% more damage on sentinel tree is added 35% damage. A crit one any of the two IBS or one savage advance and all of this while you are in the driving seat. ^_-
This has potential for an extra ordinary nuke , specially with a high critical rate. All of this for spinning strike, life can be interesting.
@Pando - still eagerly waiting to see your build and rotation - sounds exciting!
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I'm not IV though so I can't freely mark targets without using Daring Shout. So for me as a Sword Master the ability to keep getting that 5 Sec Immunity over and over quickly is very helpful. And if I need some burst instead I like crescendo because it makes them stay still the entire time, and the animation is cool xD
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Makes sense. Thank you for the response. It's always good to hear creative idea, one thing I always forget is it isn't about the build or the best dps, it's about what one feels comfortable with and enjoys.
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Thanks. The whole build I am using is experimental. I just hope it will work as good as I think it might so I don't have to drop more money on a respec and reroll.
What you have been thinking of have all been viable ideas.
I too am eager to see what it is pando is doing. He has way more GWF experience than I do. I suspect he will drop some really valuable wisdom on here.
PVPer rocking it Solo queue style since the dawn of Neverwinter
Hoping for the same thing.
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I have points For extra Action point gain while Unstoppable and the feat to increase IBS and Sure Strike damage as targets health diminishes.
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LOL, we are all in a BIG learning curve with all the changes buddy
Style 1: Pando Style
Low cooldown on TakeDown + Battle Fury (duration increase)
Cooldown with savage attack to launch a baby nuke on rotation 2.
At least this is what I understand from his posts.
Style 2: (from the tree I proposed in first post)
Use TR > TakeDown > IBS ... then Use FLS, stun and one TR + Sure Strike (if you are IV), generally I land atleast 2 sure strikes which is a lot of damage specially I have 15% extra damage on marked, and extra damage on IBS + Sure Strike instead of cooldown.
As destroyer you can use Flourish, I prefer the FLS and TR hence IV.
Even with 3 TR I find there are enough arsenal of attacks left, go unstoppable,daily. I rarely find myself in position where I have run out of attack. I think the build is viable. Why ?
1. The extra damage from IBS and Sure strike makes up for the in-between loss of cooldown
2. A lot of times I find myself running around chasing other classes except vs GWF and GF.
However, I am heavily reliant on IBS, if I miss "oh-uh" which is why TakeDown MUST execute as Crush mentions"the combination of TakeDown > IBS is intended to be there" (screen shot in my earlier post)
Style 3: (from the tree I proposed in first post)
Hybrid from 1 and 2 (only if you are IV)
Which style is better? Probably 1, but I haven't tried it yet. I have found reasonable success with my personal style. Found my way to page 38 on 13k Gear. My kills and deaths are about even, with list of massive assists and a 40k HP with ~40% deflection. I have also been playing punch bag so the CW and HR in the team can do the kills, and it helps to win games.
As a rule I test out the opposing GF once or twice. If I find I have a hard time beating them, simply chicken run and hit the other classes or run for pots.
I am still waiting for Pando's response and I definitely want to try out his build.
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I am mainly applying pressure to all Ranged DPSers and Controllers. And As you say being a punching bag for my team has been super helpful to getting wins. I have more Deaths than Kills but also more Wins than Losses, I feel like as such a mobile warrior it is my job to get on the node and/or in peoples faces to push them back and shift their focus off of my team and on to me.
After I pressure them for a Bit I sprint burst , Leap, PC away to their home node, and usually get 2 of them to chase me, totally alleviating the pressure in mid for my team.
Also for me Punishing Charge -> Take Down is a very smooth skill transition. I don't know how to explain it but if you PC then really quickly hit Take down whiel you are charging you come out of the charge On the downward motion of Take down. It allows you to quicklly zip from one opponent to th other into an immediate take down.
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Page 38 on 13K Gear :cool: MUHAHAHA! Just on 4x Grim Set and 1 Profound GWF blade and 3 artifacts on blue.
Maybe you, I and Pando should go to that 19K margin and make a team called "GWF--RIP" - #1,2,3 all GWF... collect a DC as a migrating pet and some other comedian from the GWF grave - now I am day-dreaming! I have to say, the performance feels better than what it felt on the test server. My only issue is with the CW nukes. I feel almost okay as a GWF. Pando 48hrs + and waiting - where is our epic guide! A lot of GWF haters need to get owned!
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I like very much the high recovery build. Very creative.
My playstyle always favored DPS and survival through mobility over sentinel passive tanking.
I rolled a half orc in the old days. Not a halfling and i don't like dwarfs. Less survivable race but matter of personal taste.
Strenght and con are the solid choice for pvp for me. Many go con-dex for sentinel for crit and deflection. I'm not a survival maniac. Str gives DPS and healing bonus on regeneration. Con...best pvp stat. Hp and ARP all- in-one. ARP stacks better than power till 2.5k or so. Even with new power giving 6% DMG for 1k stat, ARP still stacks better at the above value. I'd stop at overall 30-33% dr ignored since normal classes like trs/ cws stop at these dr values. Above, is good for tanks only imho.
Right now i plan to go 24 con, 20+ str and what i can on dex. Destroyer for extra DPS. Leave the tankyness to gear+boons. My idea of pvp gwf has always been that of a bullet. Fast, hard-hitting, still able to take a few hits.
Got all the hp, con and def feats on heroic. And the sprint feat. The rest on DPS feats and just 2 points on devastating critical. Best heroic feats for me. On destro i left out deep gash. Using plaguefire and my crit% at 25%. Preferred solid choiches to deflect and crit. Deflect % still at 30% though. Grabbed the power from recovery and ARP, ibs feat, takedown/ Bf feat. Left out the savage feat Since the double rotation works if you slot 2 cc powers. And i use Bf takedown ibs. Deflect feat and mark damage from sentinel.
Unstoppable recovery double nerfed. Half healing but, more than all, we now go unstoppable a lot less.
Bravery for speed and deflect, and trample to boost ibs. Daily is savage advance cause it hardly misses. And avalanche or slam if in a pinch.
Through gear i can stack def, deflect, hp and regen to increase tankyness. So, purified bi gear full armor when i finish the campaign. 2/2 purified/ grim sentinel till i get it. Bi is better with full set bonus and overload.
For boons, i go for 'chance when taking damage'. As gwf, for pvp, you get it more than you hit. So all the defensive shielding boons are more effective and, once stacked, They shield you a lot. With gbarkshield and bi armor bonus it's very good.
Only offensive boons i got are the ARP boons. Deflect over crit. Damage on deflect since i think it's still better than stamina regen boon. Have Bf for that. And heroic feat.
These 2 allow the so called perma sprint on destro gwf. 12 s CD on Bf, 6 on takedown. With it, TR is only to mark the enemy with new mark.
Plaguefire helps stack destroyer purpose for real damage boost.
This playstyle is not easy. You open with takedown. Would be a suicide without Bf and increased sprint. Takedown si on low CD feated, 3 secs if it misses and can be cancelled. Combine these 2 powers. With Bf nobody get away and i can get away from epic mounts if needed. So you stick to them. Then it's skill to land takedown. Fake it, cancel with sprint, anticipate the enemy and sprint where be will dodge. Then get him. Small bursts and SS while chasing them.
Weakness is, They can catch you when you stop to attack. So must be good at moving constantly behind the enemy to mess up their aim.
Many players are predictable with dodges. You can guess where They will go and sprint there so that when They arrive, you're already landing your takedown. You can constantly sprint, pressure and takedown. Cc si defense too. Tankyness through gear is key to not be squishy. Damage comes mainly from feats, so gear can be survival focus with some DPS.
Not easy to play but i like it. Very flexible and you're like a bullet. Fast, hard,hurting.
Can't stay in brawls for too long. 2+ ranged DPS start focusing, better disengage or use the environment. Example: in hotenhow, at point 2, can run around the huge bracers, use them as shields to hit-run if focused 2+v1. Also, columns on home points can be used the same way.
Still kill enemies in 1-2 rotations, 3+ only on geared pvpers or tanky builds. Cause once They get under half hp, feated ibs hits quite hard.
Fun to play for me so far. A bit hard with current cws/hrs nuking everything but imho viable. Will detail more but i think i'm not saying new stuff.
pando thanks for the advice. Shift cancelling Take downs is on my to do list now. That is such a great tip! One more tool to add to the mind games being played in a fight.
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Forgot to say, iron vanguard for threat rush mark plus it complements sprint to be even more mobile. You can, for example, jump with it from enemy to enemy in a group fight. You know, when another melee focus you in a brawl, you can insta- jump to another enemy to leave him behind/ mess his aim.
Also, with the above build i find more effective this playstyle: you do not facetank. The only moment you're standing still is when you're executing takedown+ibs. After ibs, i immediately sprint behind the enemy. A couple of SS hits, and sprint again in another direction next to him or behind him again when he turns, never standing still.
Against thorn ward hrs you can sprint in, combo them, sprint out, tank their ranged through sprint, rush in gain to takedown, rush out exc...keeping the pressure while not standing inside the ward.
Against trs you've so much mobility you can keep chasing them and hitting them forever. With this build pretty much you don't need a ranged stun or a gap closing encounter/at will.
Same cws severe reaction. You can move more. First teleport, you fake takedown and cancel (or cancel ibs, both work). Look how he moves ( some teleport to your back, some in other directions), so next teleport you immediately sprint where you guess he'LL teleport. This way, you'll be there exactly when he appears and the CW will not have the time to dodge.
If an enemy is busy dodging, he/she cannot attack. So sprint is a strong weapon now. Unstoppable, with determination gain ubernerfed, not so much. Good only to build DP stacks for that massive ibs when the enemy lost some hp and you catch him.
I used to move a lot during fights with old gwf too. There's no comparison between a moving gwf and a gwf who facetank only. A good gwf hits you, then sprint to get some distance and force you to chase him, being a hard target. Sprinting behind the enemy gwf after ibs is effective. Then keep moving. He will be in a hurry to return the damage and could easily miss his fls or other cc move. It's not a playstyle i need to adapt to. And mobility is one of gwfs best weapons.
Swordmaster not so good for me. Flourish is too easy to dodge, so i prefer threat rush, and, if needed, fls is a more reliable ranged stun. If flourish was a faster casting ability, using it with takedown and ibs would be the best dps rotation. Not so much now.
Instigator could be a good tree if REALLY focused on cc and ap gain.