loot system change planned ?

tcarnce

is the loot system going to change sometime ?
i rarely feel like playing dungeons because of the possibility to get kicked.
only the risc of not being able to complete a dungeon because of enemies too strong is enough, we don`t need enemies in our own team.

i know the standard replies, get a guild blablabla.
no, i want to queue solo and just have fun instead of having to worry about these things.

charononus

I would put money on it not changing. I will be completely shocked if I'm wrong.

mconosrep

These points have been brought up since 'Open Beta' but aside from one change (kicking requiring a 'majority' of 2 out of the 5 party members rather than purely at the Leader's discretion), nothing else has been done. So I would also be surprised if anything else was done soon.

So sadly, until this changes you actually ARE best off trying to join a friendly guild or even a channel such as /legit....

berserkrage99

ppl have been asking for simple things like this since launch from the devs, the horrible kick/loot system, the need for a mount inventory slot that doesnt share regular item slots, and much more, but its been a whole year, safe to say we arent being heard.

zshikara

nw_legit_community has become like a second guild to me. Always good, friendly runs.

neevakleenblade

Wow, I'm a rogue, but not even I would stoop so low. I usually I run solo, because I don't want to agree to help someone only to get called away from the game and leave them facing the boss on their own. Thanks for letting me know this can happen. I have joined a couple of parties but have never been kicked. It really seems like a petty thing to do, I mean I've found some pretty good loot in my time but nothing that seems worth a double crossing over. I guess some people must get their kicks by kicking others.

cerberusxll

I was kicked from the last boss in FH a few days ago.

only reason I can think of it being, is because I was running DC, and a set of DC boots dropped.

even though I voted greed before everyone else, I was vote kicked.

what is the vote threshold for being voted out? I'm assuming it's 3 votes for.

I sent one of the other players a sarcastic message of thanks for kicking me, and to no surprise, he told he he voted against. I checked the AH after the run, and the boots had been won and posted almost immediately by the player I messaged.

this is an issue that does need to be addressed. it's somewhat telling, that after all this time, it hasn't been seen to. I guess the dev's have differing opinions as to what is important than the players themselves do.

anharmon

The issue of kicking is a serious problem, and a huge deterrent from running solo. People are kicked for the dropped gear being for their class, before they even roll. Or after, even if they roll greed (if they're being nice/it was agreed beforehand).

Please, disable kicking after the final boss is dead. There's no reason to do so -- you should have long since kicked disconnected/AFK players.

mconosrep

cerberusxll wrote: »

what is the vote threshold for being voted out? I'm assuming it's 3 votes for.

It is 2 I believe which is a rather low threshold. I think a lot of people would prefer if it required every other party member to agree.

kvet

It's a huge risk of pugging. (PUG: pick up group). The only real workaround is to only run with guild members, friends or other trusted players (from the legit community, for example). I only pug normals like CT or CC when I feel like being helpful and rolling some low levels through a DD in 10 minutes (and then passing on all loot). (sort of fun in it's own way, heh) otherwise, I only every run with my guild. It's pretty rare to be unable to pull a DD group together in my guild given it's size.

hypervoreian

I am a Gf i was running kessell the week before.Since i know how horrible nw community is in general i did not use buffing rotation,which i do when running with legit community parties(enforced threat,into the fray) ,but pure dps (Lunging,Flourish,GWrath).There was another Gf in the party that used party utility setup.He was kicked and the reason was "0 damage"
.The other members were 2 cws one HR.I was 100% sure from that moment that the two cws voted and kicked the poor guy.

I started swearing "f......ing cws i ll report you all".At that time another HR joined and got the message "vote kick failed".I was next :P.But at least one of the cws returned back to logic.We finished the skirmish and then one cw pm me "f.....ing cw but i carried your ***".And i told him that taking two minutes longer if he did not kicked the other Gf was not such a big difference.
I know that generalizations are not good but most cws have an attitude and need some serious e hm,"adjustments" or better say "damage tune" to lose their ego and pride.

AND THE VOTE KICK MUST REQUIRE THREE PERSONS NOT TWO!!!!

harkur

mconosrep wrote: »

These points have been brought up since 'Open Beta' but aside from one change (kicking requiring a 'majority' of 2 out of the 5 party members rather than purely at the Leader's discretion), nothing else has been done. So I would also be surprised if anything else was done soon.

So sadly, until this changes you actually ARE best off trying to join a friendly guild or even a channel such as /legit....

2 out of 5 is a majority...remind me never to let these guys near an election system.

generaldiomedes

Once I kicked myself for accidentally rolling Need on an epic.

harkur

magenubbie wrote: »

First, let me assure you this is not a mage thing. As annoying as I can be on here, I've never initiated a vote kick on an active player. And I don't intend to change that anytime soon. But back to the main portion of your post:
I'd say a vote kick should be unanimous or not at all. And only in very specific situations should kicking be possible.
Situations the game can monitor. Things like no damage/healing/tanking being done for x minutes while the rest of the party does these things. AFkness defined by standing idle or running around with no effect to the environment.

The same goes for breaking up the party. Either unanimously or not at all once you're inside a dungeon. Disbanding outside dungeons only. People use this in GG dungeons as an alternative to vote kicking. "If I can't have it, neither will you.".. kids these days..bah.

Well, "unanimous" in this case being 4/5 I agree with you completely but I would accept 3/5. One piece of this I'm a little surprised hasn't surfaced in this conversation is the "odd player out"voting mechanic where the great majority of the tedious clearing work has been done in a pug that is 3/5, 4/5 guildies or friends and the 5th member is turfed right at the boss fight so someone else can be invited in for the cleanup and chest.

asmodeus451

harkur wrote: »

2 out of 5 is a majority...remind me never to let these guys near an election system.

the player getting kicked doesnt get a vote. 2/4 is 50%, not actually a majority, but there you go

however i do agree that it should be 3 yes votes minimum. as it is right now, it is all to easy to have an entire run hijacked by a couple of ppl

jrfbrunet

I forgot what game it was that i had noticed the kick system worked like this:

3 votes needed to put a "kick" into process. however, the process forced a 1 or 2 minute timer before the player was kicked. That allowed the player to plead their case to ask the others to retract the kick process, OR it allowed the player enough time to loot the boss chest.

orinllhaus

Here's the fix:
Regardless of kick, loot gets rolled on by all members of the party in the class restriction provided for up to 30 minutes from disconnect from the group if the mob was damaged or killed at the time the group was still formed.

This would stop the kicking pre and post loot.

I'd like to see some farmers wait 30 minutes trying to NOT loot an epic to sell on the AH.

ysil6969

This has been over and over a few times now. Best solution was allow people to start a greed only loot system on dungeon queue, and no kicking during boss loot rolls. As for temporary fixes, I've pugged once, and got kicked at the loot roll screen. Since then I've run only with legit channel, and have had nothing but good to great runs.

suddenlyslow

orinllhaus wrote: »

Here's the fix:
Regardless of kick, loot gets rolled on by all members of the party in the class restriction provided for up to 30 minutes from disconnect from the group if the mob was damaged or killed at the time the group was still formed.

This would stop the kicking pre and post loot.

I'd like to see some farmers wait 30 minutes trying to NOT loot an epic to sell on the AH.

You still have the issue of those that deliberately try to hijack runs that are near the end. They start vote kicks and put up pretty reasons like "person is afk" or "we need a CW" or "their GS is too low", etc. They will have others of their guild waiting to queue in to try and take over the instance and kick everyone but their own guild. It of course does not always work, but they seem to have enough success with it that they never start their own instances and simply work on hijacking others. People in the party really need to pay attention to votes and if in doubt always vote 'no' (don't just dismiss without voting as that counts as a 'yes').

qutsemnie

I think "legit" is probably over-rated. I think the effect of using that channel is likely confounded with the effect of just inviting people by hand to a party. Just the act of inviting people via tells and not queuing I think significantly reduces the probability that you will fall into kick shenanigans, and that is strongly so if you are the one building the party.

I have not ever been kicked, but I start my party with a couple of real life friends, and that makes it extremely unlikely that you will bump into 2 other people that sabotage you, provided you fill your party by hand.

I can't stress this next point enough though, the goal of a pug is not to do a dungeon and get loot. The goal of a pug is to meet people, so that you don't have to pug with as many people in the future. Pugging is like blind dating for MMORPG friends. The loot is like the dinner/movie. It is there to fill the void and make it worthwhile, but the real point is to meet someone. People that don't realize that have a harder time in every mmorpg that they play.

hypervoreian

magenubbie wrote: »

First, let me assure you this is not a mage thing. As annoying as I can be on here, I've never initiated a vote kick on an active player. And I don't intend to change that anytime soon. But back to the main portion of your post:
I'd say a vote kick should be unanimous or not at all. And only in very specific situations should kicking be possible.
Situations the game can monitor. Things like no damage/healing/tanking being done for x minutes while the rest of the party does these things. AFkness defined by standing idle or running around with no effect to the environment.

The same goes for breaking up the party. Either unanimously or not at all once you're inside a dungeon. Disbanding outside dungeons only. People use this in GG dungeons as an alternative to vote kicking. "If I can't have it, neither will you.".. kids these days..bah.

^^^
+1 Totally agree.

melodywhr

berserkrage99 wrote: »

ppl have been asking for simple things like this since launch...

simple... something like the loot system is a core mechanic. i don't see how this would be simple to change.

mconosrep

melodywhr wrote: »

simple... something like the loot system is a core mechanic. i don't see how this would be simple to change.

Maybe for some of the more major changes requested.

But honestly how hard could making a kick require 3 (or 4) out of 4 votes, rather than just 2, actually be? I am assuming that without Rube Goldberg style convoluted programming, that would involve changing an integer value in the relevant places. Even this relatively trivial change would help a lot....

qutsemnie

The number of vote kicks a person has used should be on the persons inspect stats.

That way the social pressure would mount for serial kickers. Also you could inspect at the start of a dungeon and decide for yourself whether someone kicks unusually often.

Though I guess the problem there is people that play longer would accumulate more vote kicks. I guess my solution would be also put on the stat sheet the number of epic chest opened. Then you would have a ratio to go off of.

Like for example you might see:
Epic Dungeons: 102
Vote Kick: 3

vs
Epic Dungeons: 49
Vote Kick: 15

Social pressure would mount.

When I queue with my friends we pick up strangers who often ask: "You guys are all in the same guild. Are you going to kick me?" Get asked that a lot. To which we say "no". If epic dungeons completed and vote kick (yes) were public stats then there would be objective evidence to reassure these people taking a leap of faith.



I am not saying the game should take action based on these stats. It should just make them public.

letojarred1

Get a good PVE Guild = problem solved
I'm a lone wolf myself before, but a dozen pug runs made me change my mind.