GF - Mod 4 Paragon Path feedback requested

laichin1979

Hi All,

Would love for some expert input as to what you think the viability is of the different paragon paths.

I have heard a lot about how the GF is needed in Dungeons now, but mainly as a tank en for it's buffs.

Does this mean the Conq path is no good anymore with the new Capstone? What about the Tactician path?

Would love to hear peoples views.

I am both interested in PVE and PVP. Used to be a Conq, but considering changing.

shadymunkae

I've tested out the changes for the GFs on the preview server. And imo, it appears that the Protector tree seems to be more suitable after the change due to the defensive buffs etc. This is also makes the Shield Talent class feat a good feat to slot in as it drains stamina slower when guarding. Getting high power with the Conq tree doesn't seem to be possible anymore. Capstone's changed to where you need to be struck before you get any sort of offensive buff. But I might be wrong. Just stating what I managed to understand from what I've seen on the Preview server.

oicidraz

Well, KV + 20% Damage Debuff is good in the new Dungeon cause mobs hit super hard, so Protector GF is very nice there, but I think that for PvP Conq is better, the new capstone is good and it's always better to kill the other guy fast, instead of trying to being Tanky and/or debuff your enemy's attack IMO (PvP).

inthere23

Playing on preview, tactician is good for the capstone-but only for a really well geared group. As mentioned before the monsters in mod 4 dungeons hit REALLY hard and I'll go tactician eventually when I get better gear, but at the beginning I think I'll go protector.

My preference is actually conqueror and it's GREAT damage for soloing and pvp even with the different capstone. The other classes have been made extra squishy intentionally so that guardian fighter is going to be needed to the point of being almost mandatory in dungeons in the beginning.

It's pretty funny seeing groups without GF ping-ponging monsters between the DPS classes, one shotting them. Going to be a lot of complaints but in optimal groups, a protector GF will get all the threat and nobody else will get hit at all. Iron warrior is finally working, threat is tripled, and enforced threat feats in the protectors tree is awesome.

panisch420

hi,
ive been playing around on preview myself but unfortunately didnt make it into a dungeon (my main "playground"), so i couldnt test my builds "in action". Been to icewind, but that doesnt rly count imo.

I do pve and dont care for pvp. I'm mainly a tank and intend to stay that way, currently swordmaster tactician at around 13-14k GS.

The protector tree really looks good, so does the conq tree, the main concern i am having when leaving tactician, is the loss of ap gain in combination with steel defense.
Now i have a few questions:

1. Does it even make sense for a pve-tank to go conq with mod4, or would you sacrifice too much support (support also as in, damage resistance and therefore the ability to soak dmg)?

2. Would you recommend going iron vanguard when choosing the protector tree? I feel the synergy would be better. same with tacticians synergy to swordmaster. definitely would miss the safety net that villains menace+steel defense is, but would i need it?
On a second thought, IV rly only offers threatening rush. Frontline surge is also great but i dont rly need it, while i would still equip it for trash though. In a dungeon i almost never remove enforced threat and itf. Adding lunge/bull charge (depending on dungeon) for trash and KV for most bosses. With the new additional threat, one maybe could remove enforced threat for frontline surge? What's the (new?) target cap on FS again?

3. Checking the preview server right now, "illusion shimmer", the rank3 dread boon, is still not fixed? (or working as intended?) It grants 0,7% deflection severity instead of 3%, so that's no way worth 250 arp, is it?

I probably have some other questions that dont come to mind right now.
Anyway, im very interested in all of your thoughts and am looking forward to read em.

query523

I can give you an answer to #1 easy. I'm vacillating between tact and conq for Mod4 But the reason to go offense instead of defense are simple. One, all GF gear comes with a pile of defensive stats. We get defense stats on weapons. Getting 'more tanky' hits diminishing returns. Two, damage is aggro hitting harder for a GF means being more capable of controlling the mobs. Three, one way or another LifeSteal is a major factor in PVE content. Regeneration is nice but with the re-worked Reckless Attacker power stacking does not have the returns it used to. Moving some of those points to LS turns DPS into survivability better than protector feats can turn survivability into DPS mostly because you are moving enchants rather than feats. Four, it's kinda fun to be the bouncy angry GF static tanking is boring.

shadymunkae

@query523 ; so offensive is the way to go? Would that make your def low for a GF? Perhaps just as much as a GWF IV Sentinel? If yes, that would make you less useful. Why take a GF who's defense is pretty equal to a GWF, but does lesser damage? Don't get me wrong though. Not doubting your experience. Just kinda confused

panisch420

I totally get the comparison between conq and tact. Let's be honest, tactician tree doesnt have alot of defense feats per se, the 10% IRR and more ap could indrectly be considered as such though.
Conq and prot is different though i think. Ill ignore the first 10 pts in prot tree, because no matter where id put 21 pts in, id always put the 10 in prot.

5% DamRed with KV active (which i assume to be a very high uptime for me). 5% is quite alot considering the deminishing returns on def (most of us GFs are probably at around 48-52% DamRed.

-10% guard loss while blocking (ima call it guard loss, not stamina, because that's what it is, no matter what they wanna call it ) not sure how effective this would be, so prolly tending more to -> overwhelming impact (no defense ability)

20% reduced targets damage on full stacks - great on some bosses and most trash, almost useless on others (if you kite)

On live ive been playing around with arp, lifesteal, lifedrinker and endless consumption, so i know how effective that can be (while im only a low dmg tactician) but i still got the feeling that inreased DamRed (direct or indirect) is more useful when having the constant heal income from a cleric. With threat i honestly have little problems on live, so itll be less a problem with the increased threat we get.
Not trying to defend prot, nor any tree, just thinking aloud here, hoping to unleash a conversation

Conq "only" offers more lifesteal from more damage on the survivability front.

But, to be honest, i will probably start out conq and see if it would be "enough" tankyness. Because down the line, if it would be enough, everyone benefits from the GF being conq.
Enough would actually be to be able to run KV throughout a whole bossfight (with a cleric).

@ant1309
Your main "defense" comes from actually avoiding damage due to timed blocks/manual dodges, then from defense->damage reduction and deflect->deflection chance. By wearing T2 armor (im at timeless) and ancient weaponset, you should get enough defense to hit a somewhat deminishing-return-softcap on the def stat and end up at around 48% DamRed. Now, the feat's from the respective trees are just a little "extra", and the effect i stated above.

Why take a GF instead of a GWF you ask? First of all: Utility: KV and ITF, guys KV is insane if they dont remove the toggle-mode. Second, im not sure how a GWF tanks, but ive never seen one generating actually enough aoe threat to keep the aggro from the CWs. (doesnt say that a GWF cant do it, just never seen one).

panisch420

After running a few T2 dungeons on live today i decided to go swordmaster based conquerer specc with lifesteal stacking. Arp capped and all that. Why SM? Steel defense is still great and i need/want it, i dont see that i need TR or FS.
It's still a tank build though, but with alot sustaindamage.
The new blockmeter is awesome and almost makes up for the (old) missing tactician capstone in terms of ap gain (havent tested the new one), not to mention the insane amount of dmg it can soak now.
Endless consumption dread boon is very recommended for this imo.
Lifesteal also works great with the "reflect" idea of some swordmaster builds.

So far so good, my survivability didnt decrease, if any, it increased, and im only half baked into my transformation rly.
---needs further testing---