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Duelist Fury/Bilethorn Changes
godlysoul2
Member Posts: 661 Bounty Hunter
(NOTE: This is an analysis of the upcoming changes to the skill Duelist Fury and the Perfect Bilethorn weapon enchant on the preview server. If this thread is moved to the preview section, so be it. However, I felt that more people would be interested in it from this section of the forum, seeing as I myself regularly check class forums and am interested in future updates, yet, only check dev posts for preview server updates. The most recent change to DF which reduces weapon enchant proc count was NOT posted by the devs (to my knowledge) where as the "16" damage tick fix was.)
Most people know duelist fury had been recently "nerfed"/fixed to avoid extra "16" damage ticks from occurring unintentionally (on preview server). This was a minor damage change. However, it was recently updated again to now actually tick less times overall when used with Duelist Fury. Since some people were saying how horrible it was, I decided to test it and see how bad it was myself.
(These tests were done using purely the "flurry" portion of DF. The results are for damage from the weapon enchant only)
Setup: - (x2) Fallen Dragon Dagger
- Max CON/INT Halfling (Standard "Semi-Perma" PvP Build (Using Grim set))
- Non Stealthed/Sabotuer
Perfect Bilethorn:
Live Server
Total ticks: 68
Total damage added: 5110
Preview Server
Total ticks: 28
Total damage added: 3029
These results were very extreme, so I decided to test some other weapon enchants to compare the results.
Perfect Vorpal: (Assuming 4 bleed stacks on average)
(20% cirt)
Total damage added: 1251
(30% crit)
Total damage added: 1877
(40% crit)
Total damage added: 2503
Perfect Vorpal: (Assuming 7 bleed stacks on average)
(20% cirt)
Total damage added: 1648
(30% crit)
Total damage added: 2472
(40% crit)
Total damage added: 3297
Perfect Vorpal: (Assuming 10 bleed stacks)
(20% cirt)
Total damage added: 2086
(30% crit)
Total damage added: 3129
(40% crit)
Total damage added: 4173
*Note, that this uses average expected bleed counts. Something to keep in mind is that some of your bleed ticks occur before the flurry animation ends, meaning not all bleed ticks will have the ending damage value displayed by the stack counter on your target. Also, in actual combat needing to dodge, being proned/stunned, missing a DF/target dodging out of a DF, ect all make maintaining stacks harder than in theory. Also, on average I was getting a stack of 4 for the bleeds per flurry (meaning some of the ticks were below four, and most of the ticks were at four).
The above tests were both done with perfect weapon enchants. However, I heard some people discussing that flaming enchant could also be viable as a result of the bile nerf, or possibly even better than bile. This next test was done using a lesser flaming on preview. Since the damage from lesser -> perfect is exactly 2x the lesser damage, ticks of varying damage were multiplied by 2 to get an idea of the result a perfect would have.
Perfect Flaming (Scaled From Lesser):
Preview Server
Total ticks: 31
Total damage added: 1755
EDIT: I would also like to and will be attempting to get a perfect flaming to test rather than scaling up a lesser test for accuracy.
Ultimately its debatable and build dependent as to which is better. Briefly looking at Cloud of Steel damage with the results and estimating, it seems bile would be close to equal to vorpal if all knives were thrown at once. I have also heard people say that with the changes to Arm Pen and AoEs coming up, PoTB will gain damage. Since PoTB doesn't proc weapon enchants, this leaves DF/CoS as really the only two options to consider when looking at which weapon enchant to use unless an alternate build were to be used aside from Perma or Semi-Perma standard PvP builds. Dailies could also be considered, however, most damage will be a result of DF + CoS, but ultimately bilethorn will still retain utility over vorpal for its ability to dismount/keep dismounted and still drain stealth (to some degree).
I just thought this would be nice information to share since a lot of people were concerned/shocked by the drastic change. What are your opinions? Will you still use bilethorn or will you try vorpal or something different? As of now I feel that bilethorn will still be best. I would still like to test how much stealth it drains with these reduced ticks compared to current game and will be testing that soon though.
Most people know duelist fury had been recently "nerfed"/fixed to avoid extra "16" damage ticks from occurring unintentionally (on preview server). This was a minor damage change. However, it was recently updated again to now actually tick less times overall when used with Duelist Fury. Since some people were saying how horrible it was, I decided to test it and see how bad it was myself.
(These tests were done using purely the "flurry" portion of DF. The results are for damage from the weapon enchant only)
Setup: - (x2) Fallen Dragon Dagger
- Max CON/INT Halfling (Standard "Semi-Perma" PvP Build (Using Grim set))
- Non Stealthed/Sabotuer
Perfect Bilethorn:
Live Server
Total ticks: 68
Total damage added: 5110
Preview Server
Total ticks: 28
Total damage added: 3029
These results were very extreme, so I decided to test some other weapon enchants to compare the results.
Perfect Vorpal: (Assuming 4 bleed stacks on average)
(20% cirt)
Total damage added: 1251
(30% crit)
Total damage added: 1877
(40% crit)
Total damage added: 2503
Perfect Vorpal: (Assuming 7 bleed stacks on average)
(20% cirt)
Total damage added: 1648
(30% crit)
Total damage added: 2472
(40% crit)
Total damage added: 3297
Perfect Vorpal: (Assuming 10 bleed stacks)
(20% cirt)
Total damage added: 2086
(30% crit)
Total damage added: 3129
(40% crit)
Total damage added: 4173
*Note, that this uses average expected bleed counts. Something to keep in mind is that some of your bleed ticks occur before the flurry animation ends, meaning not all bleed ticks will have the ending damage value displayed by the stack counter on your target. Also, in actual combat needing to dodge, being proned/stunned, missing a DF/target dodging out of a DF, ect all make maintaining stacks harder than in theory. Also, on average I was getting a stack of 4 for the bleeds per flurry (meaning some of the ticks were below four, and most of the ticks were at four).
The above tests were both done with perfect weapon enchants. However, I heard some people discussing that flaming enchant could also be viable as a result of the bile nerf, or possibly even better than bile. This next test was done using a lesser flaming on preview. Since the damage from lesser -> perfect is exactly 2x the lesser damage, ticks of varying damage were multiplied by 2 to get an idea of the result a perfect would have.
Perfect Flaming (Scaled From Lesser):
Preview Server
Total ticks: 31
Total damage added: 1755
EDIT: I would also like to and will be attempting to get a perfect flaming to test rather than scaling up a lesser test for accuracy.
Ultimately its debatable and build dependent as to which is better. Briefly looking at Cloud of Steel damage with the results and estimating, it seems bile would be close to equal to vorpal if all knives were thrown at once. I have also heard people say that with the changes to Arm Pen and AoEs coming up, PoTB will gain damage. Since PoTB doesn't proc weapon enchants, this leaves DF/CoS as really the only two options to consider when looking at which weapon enchant to use unless an alternate build were to be used aside from Perma or Semi-Perma standard PvP builds. Dailies could also be considered, however, most damage will be a result of DF + CoS, but ultimately bilethorn will still retain utility over vorpal for its ability to dismount/keep dismounted and still drain stealth (to some degree).
I just thought this would be nice information to share since a lot of people were concerned/shocked by the drastic change. What are your opinions? Will you still use bilethorn or will you try vorpal or something different? As of now I feel that bilethorn will still be best. I would still like to test how much stealth it drains with these reduced ticks compared to current game and will be testing that soon though.
Post edited by godlysoul2 on
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Comments
Clouds of Steel 8 Charges
~ Bilethorn initial hit x 8
~ Bilethorn delayed 4 sec hit x 8
Sly Flourish 4 Swings
~ Bilethorn initial hit x 4
~ Bilethorn delayed 4 sec hit x 4
Duelist Flurry 3rd part (13 hits)
~ Bilethorn initial hit x 13
~ Bilethorn delayed 4 sec hit x 13
~ Bilethorn delayed 8 sec hit x 13 (bugged, duplicate delayed hits triggered by bleeds)
~ Bilethorn delayed 16 damage x 13 (bug of unknown origin across several powers)
Can you confirm this was the change?
Nevermind. I saw for myself today this was in fact the fix applied on Preview.
with 5,6 daily to win when its so broken