after running comparison tests, my dps dropped by 20-22% this is after taking adjustments to certain feats, swapping eye of the storm for evocation, and some encounters around. (check test forums)
Spellstorm is fine despite someone spamming that spellstorm is destroyed, EotS is nerfed, its effectiveness with the 25 ICD has reduced my crit from 70% to 50% (34% base crit) storm spell is even more potent now because of icy terrain and CoI changes
First Grimah , I start to play CW after I read your guide. And I like it! I never play ranged or hocus-pocus characters, prefer close-combat-direct-head-crushing ones. Respect mate!
Since CW changes announced, I keep testing .. and testing at preview shard. I collect over 750 screenshots (one click screenshot button on the mouse...) and made lot of calculations. Like i wrote the dmg of my present build is lowered with more than 50%, but with some feats+class features + encounters changed, its more likely ~40%. Now will test with changing companions for a little and will wait release of M4. I have already 11 epic: IS of radiance, Hawk, Wolf, Dancing Blade, Sellsword, Slyblade of Kobold, Wild Hunt Rider, Skeleton, Galeb Dhur, Laughing Skull and Lightfoot Thief.
Someone here said that he know CWs that presently can do all heroic encounters and Mad Dragon alone.
With my CW I can nuke alone all encounters, epic ot not /some of them can't finish due to time or killing the NPC I must protect/, I can pass Karru alone except first boss, FH except second/subject of one scroll of life/ and final boss.
Here is my CW and I accept all notes against me that Im whiner. If u use to do what Im doing atm, u will whine too
If u use to do what Im doing atm, u will whine too
It's easier on preview, takes a bit longer but easier. Before i had to time my dodges vs those deathlock wights when soloing undead invasion etc, but its easier now (especially as oppressor)
soloing things wasnt easy because of damage, sure it makes it quicker but chaining together shard prone, steal time, Conduit/icy terrain freeze (or slow if you don't use terrain) and popping oppressive force in between, makes it possible to solo anything that can be CCed. Prone duration is longer on shard now so will be even easier, but slower.
It's easier on preview, takes a bit longer but easier. Before i had to time my dodges vs those deathlock wights when soloing undead invasion etc, but its easier now (especially as oppressor)
soloing things wasnt easy because of damage, sure it makes it quicker but chaining together shard prone, steal time, Conduit/icy terrain freeze (or slow if you don't use terrain) and popping oppressive force in between, makes it possible to solo anything that can be CCed. Prone duration is longer on shard now so will be even easier, but slower.
Mate, I don't use icy terrain, I use sudden storm. Yeap these wights are pain in the a.., dodges must be timed and positioned vary carefully, but I manage to kill them very fast with 1 1/2 rotation + Op force: CoI-> ST->Chilling Cloud 3 strikes-> SotEA-> S.Storm delivered to the lowest HP wight ->Op Force ->ST-> SS or SotEA and they are goners.
Btw I can think of one reason more for reducing the dmg like this and it's color is orange ...
soloing things wasnt easy because of damage, sure it makes it quicker but chaining together shard prone, steal time, Conduit/icy terrain freeze (or slow if you don't use terrain) and popping oppressive force in between, makes it possible to solo anything that can be CCed. Prone duration is longer on shard now so will be even easier, but slower.
And that's where I have a major problem with this..
It is one thing to make another feat path viable and add an option (yes oppressor was previously not a viable path)... it is another thing entirely to break someone else's things in order to shove another playstyle on them.
That's isn't for balance...nor is it for the greater good... its just selfishness.
And breaking two entire feat trees and a paragon path and several powers.. to do it isn't "fixing" anything, its breaking it.
I will not, nor ever be on board with that.
0
ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
And that's where I have a major problem with this..
It is one thing to make another feat path viable and add an option (yes oppressor was previously not a viable path)... it is another thing entirely to break someone else's things in order to shove another playstyle on them.
That's isn't for balance...nor is it for the greater good... its just selfishness.
And breaking two entire feat trees and a paragon path and several powers.. to do it isn't "fixing" anything, its breaking it.
I will not, nor ever be on board with that.
Except none of this is true. Changes have been made, and more are coming. If you would less energy into writing ridiculous posts and more into actually testing stuff or staying up to date on the changes, you'd know this.
Mate, I don't use icy terrain, I use sudden storm. Yeap these wights are pain in the a.., dodges must be timed and positioned vary carefully, but I manage to kill them very fast with 1 1/2 rotation + Op force: CoI-> ST->Chilling Cloud 3 strikes-> SotEA-> S.Storm delivered to the lowest HP wight ->Op Force ->ST-> SS or SotEA and they are goners.
Btw I can think of one reason more for reducing the dmg like this and it's color is orange ...
You should give it a try on preview, I managed to do an undead invasion fine as thaum, even with the capstone not working at all. Had to change some passives and skills around though. There are more adjustments incoming too.
As a renegade, my spec is getting gutted entirely. I'm specced around combat advantage and crit and it will become way too unreliable to build around it now.
It really sucks.
0
silverquickMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 1Arc User
Except none of this is true. Changes have been made, and more are coming. If you would less energy into writing ridiculous posts and more into actually testing stuff or staying up to date on the changes, you'd know this.
Stop lying to me... I've already been over there...
I have been over there... so the BS about it not happening is... just that... complete BS.
Luckily the Devs seem to be reversing themselves on the Trees. They must have figured out just how badly they broke some things.
As a renegade, my spec is getting gutted entirely. I'm specced around combat advantage and crit and it will become way too unreliable to build around it now.
It really sucks.
Have you even read the updates in the thread? At first yes i agree, but since the initial post NW has been restored to 20%, and buffed up to 12 seconds. Chaos Magic is now 10x better (though does lack ally benefits), PD has been put up to 40% up time (which is decent) and IMO Chilling Advantage is now a viable feat to use giving 5% CC to all encounters.
Have you even read the updates in the thread? At first yes i agree, but since the initial post NW has been restored to 20%, and buffed up to 12 seconds. Chaos Magic is now 10x better (though does lack ally benefits), PD has been put up to 40% up time (which is decent) and IMO Chilling Advantage is now a viable feat to use giving 5% CC to all encounters.
Yes, I've seen the change that brought it back in line (after that post was made) along with the big duration buff . It's a lot better now. Still, the 40% chance on phantasmal destruction probably offset that buff and might even drag it to an overall nerf. Not a big deal though.
Chaos magic is worse because it lacks the ally benefit imo. If it also affected allies, I'd LOVE it.
Chilling advantage might be viable but only if eye of the storm end up being worse than it, which we will see later. Edit: It might very well become a very good passive with the cooldown change on ice conduit.
Yes, I've seen the change that brought it back in line (after that post was made) along with the big duration buff . It's a lot better now. Still, the 40% chance on phantasmal destruction probably offset that buff and might even drag it to an overall nerf. Not a big deal though.
Chaos magic is worse because it lacks the ally benefit imo. If it also affected allies, I'd LOVE it.
Chilling advantage might be viable but only if eye of the storm end up being worse than it, which we will see later. Edit: It might very well become a very good passive with the cooldown change on ice conduit.
I have a feeling they will change Chaos Magic to a team buff again, just from comments that have been made by the developers (stating Thaum DPS and Renegade is team orientated), or at least i hope so.
The only reason I say chaos magic is better, is that it can now apply to all powers (and not only magic missile). Though i do think the buffs themselves are about even with the live (different buffs, but just as effective when applied).
0
ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
I have a feeling they will change Chaos Magic to a team buff again, just from comments that have been made by the developers (stating Thaum DPS and Renegade is team orientated), or at least i hope so.
The only reason I say chaos magic is better, is that it can now apply to all powers (and not only magic missile). Though i do think the buffs themselves are about even with the live (different buffs, but just as effective when applied).
I agree with that, and made the same comment earlier in the thread. If they want the Renegade tree to be about buffing the team, sharing the Chaos Magic buff would be awesome.
I'd also like to see Chilling Advantage changed to Chaotic Advantage, and provide a +5% crit chance to everyone in the party.
I agree with that, and made the same comment earlier in the thread. If they want the Renegade tree to be about buffing the team, sharing the Chaos Magic buff would be awesome.
I'd also like to see Chilling Advantage changed to Chaotic Advantage, and provide a +5% crit chance to everyone in the party.
If fact, I should go mention that again.
That is actually an interesting idea, it would be similar to TRs Critical Teamwork if that was the case.
Nerfing shard of endless avalache is a good idea. You guys were able to destroy a whole encounter of mobs just with that one. I don't think other classes' dailies can do as much damage as that encounter.
But from what I heard CWs still do a ton of damage despite the nerfs. Oh well >.>
Nerfing shard of endless avalache is a good idea. You guys were able to destroy a whole encounter of mobs just with that one. I don't think other classes' dailies can do as much damage as that encounter.
But from what I heard CWs still do a ton of damage despite the nerfs. Oh well >.>
That one they OVERnerfed... its currently broken...
Its now doing 2600 damage Shardplosion with a 13 second recast timer..
Nerfing shard of endless avalache is a good idea. You guys were able to destroy a whole encounter of mobs just with that one. I don't think other classes' dailies can do as much damage as that encounter.
But from what I heard CWs still do a ton of damage despite the nerfs. Oh well >.>
The problem is the other classes being unable to do content, not CW being able to.
CW might be a bit too good right now (still behind GWF but eh) in pve but it's really the rest of the classes that are way too weak.
Nerfing shard of endless avalache is a good idea. You guys were able to destroy a whole encounter of mobs just with that one. I don't think other classes' dailies can do as much damage as that encounter.
But from what I heard CWs still do a ton of damage despite the nerfs. Oh well >.>
Some CW's will still do a ton of damage. But even those ones will be doing significantly less than before. There will also be a lot of CW's who do pretty meager damage either because they don't know a good build any longer or because they've opted for a control play style which is now actually viable. Those things may deter CW stacking in the future. It will basically be a grab-bag for people in the LFG channel. Inviting a 14k CW may get you someone with high damage who can cruise through a dungeon, or it may get you a low damage controller, or you may get someone who doesn't know what they're doing and will do less damage than a TR. There are still plenty of CW's who have trouble out-damaging other classes. These nerfs will make them from "meh" into a group liability.
That one they OVERnerfed... its currently broken...
Its now doing 2600 damage Shardplosion with a 13 second recast timer..
This needs to be overturned in a REAL big hurry..
And prones for significantly longer. If you want damage in the future, I imagine you'd need to use an actual damage encounter as Shard is now a CC encounter on Preview. It isn't like Thaum can't do more damage with it in the feat tree, but if you want it to do damage that's likely the path they want you to take. Just saying.
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
well, on the shard. I never look my damage values becouse cw/mof have a pollution of red numbers. I went to a mini dungeon and had a little surprise to encounter me with a shard with more than 50k value. I ran to the log and saw this.
one 28k is already absurd for "my level" (not have vorpal). imagines a "2hits" like this.
what I mean is that the cw, regardless of whether or not high values, has a serious bug in its damage (perhaps involving a feet) and perhaps why you see a cw kill in one hit while others may not.
ps:like a said in other topic: my shard in live give more damage than my aimed in preview... but, my god. Now I see that my shard can cause more damage than my ibs with perfect vorpal + full stacks. is impossible competing against this possible bug build.
And prones for significantly longer. If you want damage in the future, I imagine you'd need to use an actual damage encounter as Shard is now a CC encounter on Preview. It isn't like Thaum can't do more damage with it in the feat tree, but if you want it to do damage that's likely the path they want you to take. Just saying.
That doesn't change the fact it was overnerfed.
Its 2600 shardplosion damage with a 13 second recast timer is wayyyy overdone.... especially considering Steal Time has the same 3 second stun now and does 4500 damage with about a 9 second recast timer.
Shards WAS the damage spell, Steal time WAS the CC spell. Now its all screwed up and backwards.
It needs to be brought in line with Steal Time. Being that its higher in the tree and the capstone... it needs to either do 5000 damage on Shardplosion... OR have a 5 second Prone ... OR have a recast timer of about 6-8 seconds.
Nerfing shard of endless avalache is a good idea. You guys were able to destroy a whole encounter of mobs just with that one. I don't think other classes' dailies can do as much damage as that encounter.
The other classes don't have powers that take an eternity to manage. SotEA is one of the powers that when you master, you're well rewarded.
For the time you take to cast, aim and launch it, the other classes already gave much more damage with other powers. You can't even cast it on PvP against someone that isn't CCed, because it's super easy to avoid, and since you lose the shard with any daze you get, it's quite complicated to use it when there are lots of mobs on you on PvE.
I do not know: the only "strong" power that is actually complicated to use is Aimed (hr in general is complicated for pve). the cw is not complex like people say... and that is not a problem.
You should give it a try on preview, I managed to do an undead invasion fine as thaum, even with the capstone not working at all. Had to change some passives and skills around though. There are more adjustments incoming too.
Tried as Thaum and ya its playable. Had to wait more than 1 hour for invasion encounter As usual you are right, its little bit easy, this nasty deathlock wights barely manage to do something, BUT slow... too slow. Finished 1-2 min before time to expire.
For now will stop with CW tests and will wait for M4. Will test new chimp-stile-scourge warlock
I would not precipitate with the conclusions.
There are some very interesting feat changes in the upper and middle trees changes. Some abilities for a buff actually, for example, some powers will "tick" faster.
Armor Penetration will be fixed meaning that alot of skills will benefit from it which is an increase in their damage if you have armor pen.
Let's wait and see what happens, things can't be fixed without changes, and even with changes sometimes it takes more than 1 row of changes to make everything balanced.
preview:
HR (used P.Vorpal; R9; 8k power; greater bondings or better; green/blue pets; more dps tree than on live (I am unfamiliar with HR trees/builds)
end of CN:
28 million HR
25 million me
same HR on live (he used G.Flaming; some lesser dps&buffer(?) tree maybe) wish I know these HR builds
live:
end of CN:
32 million me
17 million Hr...
I hope he got better equipment/build in preview and was too tired at the second run and the Flaming is that bad compared to Vorpal, I really hope. Otherwise its insane difference.
Cloak Tower
SW 11 or 12k GS; P.Vorpal; R9; T1 maybe or not even full; no boons, few days old char
me: 2.9 million
SW: 2.3 million
and he was on healer tree...
Well It will be very tough. I already see the reactions of my CW guildies in mod4. Left the char(even playing) and roll a HR/SW or GWF.
At least CWs have the escaping as the TRs after mod1 to use it PVP exclusive. Oh wait...
Comments
First Grimah , I start to play CW after I read your guide. And I like it! I never play ranged or hocus-pocus characters, prefer close-combat-direct-head-crushing ones. Respect mate!
Since CW changes announced, I keep testing .. and testing at preview shard. I collect over 750 screenshots (one click screenshot button on the mouse...) and made lot of calculations. Like i wrote the dmg of my present build is lowered with more than 50%, but with some feats+class features + encounters changed, its more likely ~40%. Now will test with changing companions for a little and will wait release of M4. I have already 11 epic: IS of radiance, Hawk, Wolf, Dancing Blade, Sellsword, Slyblade of Kobold, Wild Hunt Rider, Skeleton, Galeb Dhur, Laughing Skull and Lightfoot Thief.
Someone here said that he know CWs that presently can do all heroic encounters and Mad Dragon alone.
With my CW I can nuke alone all encounters, epic ot not /some of them can't finish due to time or killing the NPC I must protect/, I can pass Karru alone except first boss, FH except second/subject of one scroll of life/ and final boss.
Here is my CW and I accept all notes against me that Im whiner. If u use to do what Im doing atm, u will whine too
It's easier on preview, takes a bit longer but easier. Before i had to time my dodges vs those deathlock wights when soloing undead invasion etc, but its easier now (especially as oppressor)
soloing things wasnt easy because of damage, sure it makes it quicker but chaining together shard prone, steal time, Conduit/icy terrain freeze (or slow if you don't use terrain) and popping oppressive force in between, makes it possible to solo anything that can be CCed. Prone duration is longer on shard now so will be even easier, but slower.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
Mate, I don't use icy terrain, I use sudden storm. Yeap these wights are pain in the a.., dodges must be timed and positioned vary carefully, but I manage to kill them very fast with 1 1/2 rotation + Op force: CoI-> ST->Chilling Cloud 3 strikes-> SotEA-> S.Storm delivered to the lowest HP wight ->Op Force ->ST-> SS or SotEA and they are goners.
Btw I can think of one reason more for reducing the dmg like this and it's color is orange ...
And that's where I have a major problem with this..
It is one thing to make another feat path viable and add an option (yes oppressor was previously not a viable path)... it is another thing entirely to break someone else's things in order to shove another playstyle on them.
That's isn't for balance...nor is it for the greater good... its just selfishness.
And breaking two entire feat trees and a paragon path and several powers.. to do it isn't "fixing" anything, its breaking it.
I will not, nor ever be on board with that.
Except none of this is true. Changes have been made, and more are coming. If you would less energy into writing ridiculous posts and more into actually testing stuff or staying up to date on the changes, you'd know this.
You should give it a try on preview, I managed to do an undead invasion fine as thaum, even with the capstone not working at all. Had to change some passives and skills around though. There are more adjustments incoming too.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
It really sucks.
Stop lying to me... I've already been over there...
I have been over there... so the BS about it not happening is... just that... complete BS.
Luckily the Devs seem to be reversing themselves on the Trees. They must have figured out just how badly they broke some things.
Have you even read the updates in the thread? At first yes i agree, but since the initial post NW has been restored to 20%, and buffed up to 12 seconds. Chaos Magic is now 10x better (though does lack ally benefits), PD has been put up to 40% up time (which is decent) and IMO Chilling Advantage is now a viable feat to use giving 5% CC to all encounters.
Yes, I've seen the change that brought it back in line (after that post was made) along with the big duration buff . It's a lot better now. Still, the 40% chance on phantasmal destruction probably offset that buff and might even drag it to an overall nerf. Not a big deal though.
Chaos magic is worse because it lacks the ally benefit imo. If it also affected allies, I'd LOVE it.
Chilling advantage might be viable but only if eye of the storm end up being worse than it, which we will see later. Edit: It might very well become a very good passive with the cooldown change on ice conduit.
I have a feeling they will change Chaos Magic to a team buff again, just from comments that have been made by the developers (stating Thaum DPS and Renegade is team orientated), or at least i hope so.
The only reason I say chaos magic is better, is that it can now apply to all powers (and not only magic missile). Though i do think the buffs themselves are about even with the live (different buffs, but just as effective when applied).
I agree with that, and made the same comment earlier in the thread. If they want the Renegade tree to be about buffing the team, sharing the Chaos Magic buff would be awesome.
I'd also like to see Chilling Advantage changed to Chaotic Advantage, and provide a +5% crit chance to everyone in the party.
If fact, I should go mention that again.
That is actually an interesting idea, it would be similar to TRs Critical Teamwork if that was the case.
But from what I heard CWs still do a ton of damage despite the nerfs. Oh well >.>
WTB Class Reroll please
That one they OVERnerfed... its currently broken...
Its now doing 2600 damage Shardplosion with a 13 second recast timer..
This needs to be overturned in a REAL big hurry..
The problem is the other classes being unable to do content, not CW being able to.
CW might be a bit too good right now (still behind GWF but eh) in pve but it's really the rest of the classes that are way too weak.
Some CW's will still do a ton of damage. But even those ones will be doing significantly less than before. There will also be a lot of CW's who do pretty meager damage either because they don't know a good build any longer or because they've opted for a control play style which is now actually viable. Those things may deter CW stacking in the future. It will basically be a grab-bag for people in the LFG channel. Inviting a 14k CW may get you someone with high damage who can cruise through a dungeon, or it may get you a low damage controller, or you may get someone who doesn't know what they're doing and will do less damage than a TR. There are still plenty of CW's who have trouble out-damaging other classes. These nerfs will make them from "meh" into a group liability.
And prones for significantly longer. If you want damage in the future, I imagine you'd need to use an actual damage encounter as Shard is now a CC encounter on Preview. It isn't like Thaum can't do more damage with it in the feat tree, but if you want it to do damage that's likely the path they want you to take. Just saying.
one 28k is already absurd for "my level" (not have vorpal). imagines a "2hits" like this.
what I mean is that the cw, regardless of whether or not high values, has a serious bug in its damage (perhaps involving a feet) and perhaps why you see a cw kill in one hit while others may not.
ps:like a said in other topic: my shard in live give more damage than my aimed in preview... but, my god. Now I see that my shard can cause more damage than my ibs with perfect vorpal + full stacks. is impossible competing against this possible bug build.
That doesn't change the fact it was overnerfed.
Its 2600 shardplosion damage with a 13 second recast timer is wayyyy overdone.... especially considering Steal Time has the same 3 second stun now and does 4500 damage with about a 9 second recast timer.
Shards WAS the damage spell, Steal time WAS the CC spell. Now its all screwed up and backwards.
It needs to be brought in line with Steal Time. Being that its higher in the tree and the capstone... it needs to either do 5000 damage on Shardplosion... OR have a 5 second Prone ... OR have a recast timer of about 6-8 seconds.
Pick one...
Because right now ... its just broken.
The other classes don't have powers that take an eternity to manage. SotEA is one of the powers that when you master, you're well rewarded.
For the time you take to cast, aim and launch it, the other classes already gave much more damage with other powers. You can't even cast it on PvP against someone that isn't CCed, because it's super easy to avoid, and since you lose the shard with any daze you get, it's quite complicated to use it when there are lots of mobs on you on PvE.
You need to create and then launch the shard. The damage reduction is too big for the cast time.
I do not know: the only "strong" power that is actually complicated to use is Aimed (hr in general is complicated for pve). the cw is not complex like people say... and that is not a problem.
Tried as Thaum and ya its playable. Had to wait more than 1 hour for invasion encounter
For now will stop with CW tests and will wait for M4. Will test new chimp-stile-scourge warlock
There are some very interesting feat changes in the upper and middle trees changes. Some abilities for a buff actually, for example, some powers will "tick" faster.
Armor Penetration will be fixed meaning that alot of skills will benefit from it which is an increase in their damage if you have armor pen.
Let's wait and see what happens, things can't be fixed without changes, and even with changes sometimes it takes more than 1 row of changes to make everything balanced.
me (15,6k CW P.vorpal; R8-9; purple pets, 8400 power; lesser bondings )
preview:
HR (used P.Vorpal; R9; 8k power; greater bondings or better; green/blue pets; more dps tree than on live (I am unfamiliar with HR trees/builds)
end of CN:
28 million HR
25 million me
same HR on live (he used G.Flaming; some lesser dps&buffer(?) tree maybe) wish I know these HR builds
live:
end of CN:
32 million me
17 million Hr...
I hope he got better equipment/build in preview and was too tired at the second run and the Flaming is that bad compared to Vorpal, I really hope. Otherwise its insane difference.
Cloak Tower
SW 11 or 12k GS; P.Vorpal; R9; T1 maybe or not even full; no boons, few days old char
me: 2.9 million
SW: 2.3 million
and he was on healer tree...
Well It will be very tough. I already see the reactions of my CW guildies in mod4. Left the char(even playing) and roll a HR/SW or GWF.
At least CWs have the escaping as the TRs after mod1 to use it PVP exclusive. Oh wait...