Agreed. As I stated earlier with 1k lifesteal and Endless Consumption I can heal near 100% with a single Shard hit. This is my question on the Life On Hit v. LifeSteal: should either give life for all targets hit in an AoE or just one? If it gives life for all hits in an AoE it would still give a CW a huge advantage over other classes regardless of which system were used.
Maybe life steal should be capped per damage? So say Shard hits you gain maximum maybe 10k hp not taking into consideration boons, incoming healing bonuses?
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
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psychaos999Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Agreed. As I stated earlier with 1k lifesteal and Endless Consumption I can heal near 100% with a single Shard hit. This is my question on the Life On Hit v. LifeSteal: should either give life for all targets hit in an AoE or just one? If it gives life for all hits in an AoE it would still give a CW a huge advantage over other classes regardless of which system were used.
I think it should be normalized to skills cooldown and should ignore the number of enemy hit. In that way it won't favor fast hitter or aoe classes.
I haven't waded through all 9 pages yet, but I did want to point out that if you're talking about dungeons that require an 8300 GS, then taking 15-17k GS characters into them, everything is going to be trivial.
Changing lifesteal isn't going to change the composition of groups, and certainly not the mindset of PUGs. Even more than that, the reason the current "meta" suggests CW's and GWF's for dungeon runs is because those two classes maximize AOE damage. And when you're trying to quickly clear content that you significantly outgear, AOE is king. And it's been the same in every single MMO.
Do us a favor. Take your CW. Take off enough gear so that you're in the 9000's. Go try and run a T2 without a cleric. You'll quickly find that without massively outgearing the content, you're going to get baked pretty hard.
Ideally, what I'd like to see is another round of dungeons with monsters similar in difficulty to IWD. It's time for T3 content to be delivered, to keep up with the gear inflation that's pretty much trivialized everything else. Even Kessell's Retreat is a cake walk. That, and take a pass at GF's so they can actually tank, and put in monsters that need to be tank. Your lifesteal ain't going to help you against a single monster that's smacking a squishy class for 10-15k a hit.
Agree and disagree with a few of the things you are saying. Agree that at higher GS, T2s seem weak and an AoE fest. They should have released new content with new gear such as artifacts that require the additional GS. They did release VT and MC but with BoP drops no one will ever be farming it beyond getting their gear. Hence, we are back to T2 farming. As far as I am concerned, we are a year into the game and they should have raised the level caps with IWD and made the open world content harder (not in terms of how ridiculously difficult it is to get the gloves and main hand but tougher bosses that hit harder and require tanking). I understand a lot of people are against raising caps and I will leave that argument for a different thread.
Again the 8-9k range, most of us agree are bare minimum GS to enter T2s; not really to clear the content as easily. You probably would be able to complete PK and a couple of others, but not without exhausting a significant amount of resources and time. If I dropped my CW around the 9k GS mark in a T2, of course I would have a tough time surviving. But why? Not just because my damage and defense would be weak but also thanks to lifesteal, which is directly dependent on my damage. So let us try both scenarios here:
Scenario 1 (Lower GS group): Lower damage. Therefore, lower lifesteal. Even with lifesteal caps, it may not be possible to reach the modified lifesteal caps. Therefore, would require a tank and/or GF to clear content smoothly. PUGs may have a different mentality. Discussed endlessly here. But even with premades, optimum composition would require healing or tanking or both.
Scenario 2 (Higher GS group-the farmers or helpers): Higher damage. Greater HP pools. More aggro and therefore, while defenses high, more chances of getting hit (unless you are significantly high to just vaporize the mobs = excluded from analysis-power creep scenarios apply here). Modified lifesteal caps reached faster. Therefore preferred to carry a GF (to keep mobs off you; of course GF mechanics need modification for this since not enough threat by current state of GF) or a healer to save you resources. Neither (GF/DC) would stuill be required per se, but be prepared to carry and use your HP pots. Hence preferred.
While I agree with you that at no point the DC and/or GF would be required, they would be far more appealing. Those that already prefer rainbow groups, glad for you. But others seem to need some convincing/coercing to bring along some of your support friends. This thread is in that direction.
I agree they should've raised the level-cap and made the new content harder, however that doesn't solve the balancing issues and actually has no direct impact to how classes are balanced. Regardless of how easy or hard the content is, the classes are not balanced.
Here is what I would like to see them do. Figure out what things players can do to mobs, and balance skills based on that. For example, here are some of the things a player can do:
Control: Stun
Control: Root
Control: Gather
Control: Knock Down
Damage: AoE
Damage: Single Target
* Make it so that any encounter can only have one of the above (it either controls, deals AoE damage, or deals single target damage), and make it so that daily has no more than 2 of the above.
* Mix and match depending on what class it is. Also, a skill with control effects should deal much less damage
* Skill that does single target damage should do at least 1.5 times of one that does AoE damage.
* All AoE skills should have no target cap, but damage should scale down the more targets get hit.
Also, more distinct differences between feat path would be welcome. I've always mained a GF, so I'll use GF as an example:
Conqueror: DPS
Protector: Mitigation Tank
Tactician: Deflection Tank
Feats should change how powers work, and this is how dynamics are added to game mechanics, instead of minor differences like +5 armor class. Some examples:
Conqueror:
* keep cap stone as it is
* Enforced Threat marks target, marked targets take 20% additional damage
* All at-wills hit cap increases by 5, speed increases by 100%
* Anvil of Doom doubles damage at 40% instead of 25%
Protector:
* Increase defense diminishing return
* HP increases depending on how much defense you have
* Shield range increases to 180% frontal block
* Portion of damage dealt transfers to shield meter
* Iron Warrior and Enforced Threat can be cast without lowering shield
* Enforced Threat and Lunging Strike groups mobs hit to the front of the Guardian Fighter
Tactician:
* When being healed, deflection chance doubles and deflection severity goes up
* Portion of deflected damage goes to HP
* HP goes up depending on how much deflect you have
Of course, all this is grossly simplified, but these are the things I would like to see. More diversities, more dynamics, more ways to play the game / class, and balance between them. I feel that this should be their primary goal, before any more content / class, because if they don't address this before they bring out more classes, it'll only get worse and become even harder to fix in the long run.
Comments
Maybe life steal should be capped per damage? So say Shard hits you gain maximum maybe 10k hp not taking into consideration boons, incoming healing bonuses?
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
I think it should be normalized to skills cooldown and should ignore the number of enemy hit. In that way it won't favor fast hitter or aoe classes.
Agree and disagree with a few of the things you are saying. Agree that at higher GS, T2s seem weak and an AoE fest. They should have released new content with new gear such as artifacts that require the additional GS. They did release VT and MC but with BoP drops no one will ever be farming it beyond getting their gear. Hence, we are back to T2 farming. As far as I am concerned, we are a year into the game and they should have raised the level caps with IWD and made the open world content harder (not in terms of how ridiculously difficult it is to get the gloves and main hand but tougher bosses that hit harder and require tanking). I understand a lot of people are against raising caps and I will leave that argument for a different thread.
Again the 8-9k range, most of us agree are bare minimum GS to enter T2s; not really to clear the content as easily. You probably would be able to complete PK and a couple of others, but not without exhausting a significant amount of resources and time. If I dropped my CW around the 9k GS mark in a T2, of course I would have a tough time surviving. But why? Not just because my damage and defense would be weak but also thanks to lifesteal, which is directly dependent on my damage. So let us try both scenarios here:
While I agree with you that at no point the DC and/or GF would be required, they would be far more appealing. Those that already prefer rainbow groups, glad for you. But others seem to need some convincing/coercing to bring along some of your support friends. This thread is in that direction.
Here is what I would like to see them do. Figure out what things players can do to mobs, and balance skills based on that. For example, here are some of the things a player can do:
Control: Stun
Control: Root
Control: Gather
Control: Knock Down
Damage: AoE
Damage: Single Target
* Make it so that any encounter can only have one of the above (it either controls, deals AoE damage, or deals single target damage), and make it so that daily has no more than 2 of the above.
* Mix and match depending on what class it is. Also, a skill with control effects should deal much less damage
* Skill that does single target damage should do at least 1.5 times of one that does AoE damage.
* All AoE skills should have no target cap, but damage should scale down the more targets get hit.
Also, more distinct differences between feat path would be welcome. I've always mained a GF, so I'll use GF as an example:
Conqueror: DPS
Protector: Mitigation Tank
Tactician: Deflection Tank
Feats should change how powers work, and this is how dynamics are added to game mechanics, instead of minor differences like +5 armor class. Some examples:
Conqueror:
* keep cap stone as it is
* Enforced Threat marks target, marked targets take 20% additional damage
* All at-wills hit cap increases by 5, speed increases by 100%
* Anvil of Doom doubles damage at 40% instead of 25%
Protector:
* Increase defense diminishing return
* HP increases depending on how much defense you have
* Shield range increases to 180% frontal block
* Portion of damage dealt transfers to shield meter
* Iron Warrior and Enforced Threat can be cast without lowering shield
* Enforced Threat and Lunging Strike groups mobs hit to the front of the Guardian Fighter
Tactician:
* When being healed, deflection chance doubles and deflection severity goes up
* Portion of deflected damage goes to HP
* HP goes up depending on how much deflect you have
Of course, all this is grossly simplified, but these are the things I would like to see. More diversities, more dynamics, more ways to play the game / class, and balance between them. I feel that this should be their primary goal, before any more content / class, because if they don't address this before they bring out more classes, it'll only get worse and become even harder to fix in the long run.