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GWF changes, from a GWF
janus408
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 60
This thread retunes Destroyer to be inline with game balance, and revamps Instigator to be a possible tree (centered around using Punishing Charge, Heroic Leap, and Restoring Strike). Yeah, it sounds crazy, but skip down to the Instigator section, I think I might be on to something...
Everyone knows there is imbalance right now, some of it has to do with bugs (Roar) some of it has to do with some feats being overtuned (Destroyers purpose - 40% damage increase, unstoppable - 10% damage increase, focused destroyer - 10.5% damage increase, Exec Style - up to 30% increased IBS, poss: TTFallen - 15% damage = 105.5% increase to IBS, or 75.5% increase to all).
Aside from the obvious fix to roar, some of these damage additions need to be tuned down, very slightly.
With Destroyers purpose stacking only 15 times instead of 20, that would increase damage by 30% instead of 40%. Exec Style causes IBS to hit way harder than it should in many cases. My highest has been 31k on a player, when he was low on health so it doesn't really matter if it was 31k or 10k he was going to die from it. But still 12-16k shots on players that are at 40-60% health is devastating and too high imo. Exec style's bonus should be halved.
That right there would bring GWF damage down to fair levels, and we would stop seeing most teams stack 3-4 of them in domination.
But what I view is more important than that rebalancing is redoing the instigator tree to bring some diversity to the class. Currently every GWF in PVP is Destroyer. There is no reason to go Sent or instigator.
Destroyer has been made the damage feat tree, in a big way. But it has also been made the CC tree. Bonuses to takedown and roar coupled in the same tree as all the damage increases seems like you are going to pigeon hole players to take that tree.
Sentinel is the tank/survivability tree. It marks itself apart as such, but it just isn't wanted in pvp right now.
What is Instigator? It is pointless. It isn't even wanted in PVE, so what role is this feat tree trying to fill? It looks like the devs want it to be a support/damage tree, but the support aspects of it are weak, and the damage is beyond supbar. The abilities it requires you to use are never used in pvp. Look at the two other trees in regards to class features. Destroyer has 2 feats that buff 2 class features (Improved Reaction: Ferocious Reaction, and Focused Destroyer: Destroyer). Sentinel has (Battle Trample: Trample the Fallen, and Master at Arms: Weapon Master). What does Instigator have? None. So 2 feat trees buff 2 class features each, and one tree buffs none of them? The two main class features that aren't buffed via feats currently are Bravery and Steadfast Determination. To avoid overlap, Instigator should buff both of these in some way.
So Instigator needs to be revitalized to give some diversity of choices in the GWF class. Also added where I would allocate points.
INSTIGATOR FEATS:
TIER1
Student of the sword got nerfed hard, but is still semi decent (-5% defense for 5 seconds after a crit). 5/5
Fleeted Foot (15% run speed for 3s after controlling a target) is bad, but its a tier 1 feat, everyone will go for Student, so this can be ignored. 0/5
TIER2
Vicious Advantage (Combat Advantage grants 5% more damage and crit) pretty good feat. Decent enough for T2. Starts to shape this tree into a crit and CA buff tree. 0/5
Reinforced Surge (FLS leaves targets prone another 1s) Not too special. Should have a cooldown reduction component with it. Should be removed. Destroyer has prone ability buffs. Instigator needs a buff to at least one class feature, as the other feat trees have 2. Reinforced Surge is now Unyielding Determination Steadfast Determination doubles the amount of Determination gained while in combat and while active increases damage by 8%. 5/5
TIER3
Nimble Runner (Sprint and Punishing charge grant 10% more Deflect) 10% deflect on sprint is weak, and no one uses punishing charge, unless this tree starts to buff it more so its worth using. I changed the tree to add to Punishing charge, so dropping sprint from this and further increasing Punishing Charge makes sense. So Numble Runner now also increases punishing charge damage by 25% and reduces the cooldown on recharging by 3s. 5/5
Allied Opportunity (Mighty Leap and Not So Fast deal 10% more damage and allies gain CA for 3s) Really weak. Both of these skills are garbage. Now you have people in this tree buffing punishing charge, mighty leap, and not so fast. 3 skills currently no one uses. This is another group-buffing feat that should hone this feat tree as the party-buff/utility tree for GWFs, but in PVP no one in their right mind uses these skills. Punishing charge and mighty leap could have potential if buffed from feats properly.
This is where the tree has its downfall, or starts it. If Destroyer is going to be max damage and control (really a bad idea to put both of these in the same tree, its the obvious pvp choice), Instigator should be steering players away from CC towards buffing group damage. Allied Opportunity needs to buff PC and/or buff from Mighty Leap more. Destroyer makes players use IBS/Knockdown/Roar(or FLS). Destroyer's 3 skills are direct burst damage, damage with a prone, aoe control. Instigator should be Punishing Charge/Mighty Leap/Restoring Strike. That would give it multi-target damage, movement+aoe damage, and direct burst damage+utility heal. I know, I probably lost you here, let me go through my idea for the following feats.
So, Allied Opportunity is now Heroic Leap: Mighty Leap's cooldown is reduced 6s (16s down to 10s) and its damage is increased by 50%. Targets hit by it are slowed 15% for 3s and allies gain combat advantage against struck targets for 3s. Crits double the duration of the slow and combat advantage. Hey! Now heroic leap is decent! Falls in line with the crit centric tree, and group buffing. 5/5
TIER4
Group Assault (wicked strike deals 5% more damage for each target hit). This feat sucks. Maybe its decent for PVE, but most PVE players are going Destroyer. So lets change it completely. Group Assault is now Unswerving Bravery: Bravery class feature now also has a 25% chance on Deflect to immediately add a charge of Punishing Charge. 5/5
Crippling Strike (Spinning Strike and Avalanche of Steel now slow targets by 50% for 5s). Decent, but spinning strike doesn't do enough damage to warrant using it over other dailies. It should increase the damage by 10-20%. At the very least.
TIER5
Instigator's Vengence (12% more damage unless hit, 3s reset). So Destroyer gets 40% more damage which can be kept up continuously, instigator gets 12% more damage but not if you get hit? By far the weakest TIER5 for GWFs. We still need some kind of buff for Restoring Strike so that Instigators have some kind of burst, direct damage skill. But keeping with the theme of the build by buffing teammate or debuffing the target should happen. So IV now is altered: Restoring Strike adds 'Wreckage' to the enemy and Restoring Strike does 15% more damage. 'Wreckage' increases the GWF's damage to this target by 20%, reduces their regen and lifesteal by 50%, and reduces their Tenacity by 25% for 5 seconds. 1/1
So lets add this all up.
Instigators will use the following skills, mostly.
Mighty Leap = cooldown is reduced 6s (16s down to 10s) and its damage is increased by 50%. Targets hit by it are slowed 15% for 3s and allies gain combat advantage against struck targets for 3s. Crits double the duration of the slow and combat advantage to 6s.
Punishing Charge = 10% deflect, damage by 25% and reduces the cooldown on recharging by 3s. While using Bravery class feature, 25% chance on Deflect to add a charge of Punishing Charge.
Restoring Strike = 15% more damage, adds 'Wreckage' to the enemy. 'Wreckage' increases the GWF's damage to this target by 20%, reduces their regen and lifesteal by 50%, and reduces their Tenacity by 25% for 5 seconds. Cooldown on Restoring Strike is 15s, this means a 5s uptime 10s downtime for this buff on a single target. The direct damage increase only helps the GWF, but everyone in their group benefits from the reduction in regen/lifesteal/tenacity on the enemy.
Class features
Steadfast Determination doubles the amount of Determination gained while in combat and while active increases damage by 8%.
Bravery class feature now also has a 25% chance on Deflect to immediately add a charge of Punishing Charge.
Daily
Savage Advance
Slam
So every 10 seconds you will be able to Mighty Leap. Which will have decent damage (aoe), slow targets and grant CA against them for 3-6s.
Punishing Charge will grant you 10% deflect, its damage will be 25% higher, it will come back faster, and if you Deflect an attack you can immediately get another charge.
Restoring Strike will do 15% more damage, increase your damage by 15% for 5s, lower the enemy's tenacity by 25% and regen/lifesteal by 50%.
You will have a static 8% more damage at all times from using Steadfast AND gain determination faster than probably Destroyer does, also gaining it while in combat but not doing damage. Every 5s you will do 20% more damage (higher still from the - tenacity), and then lose it for 10s before gaining it again, though this will only be single target.
Rotations: Mighty Leap to target (Target(s) slowed 15% for 3s / allies gain combat advantage against target(s) for 3/6s), Restoring strike a target (+20% damage for 5 seconds, plus more from reduced tenacity), punishing charge 3x. Then more punishing if you got a recharge proc, otherwise back to Mighty leap.
Everyone knows there is imbalance right now, some of it has to do with bugs (Roar) some of it has to do with some feats being overtuned (Destroyers purpose - 40% damage increase, unstoppable - 10% damage increase, focused destroyer - 10.5% damage increase, Exec Style - up to 30% increased IBS, poss: TTFallen - 15% damage = 105.5% increase to IBS, or 75.5% increase to all).
Aside from the obvious fix to roar, some of these damage additions need to be tuned down, very slightly.
With Destroyers purpose stacking only 15 times instead of 20, that would increase damage by 30% instead of 40%. Exec Style causes IBS to hit way harder than it should in many cases. My highest has been 31k on a player, when he was low on health so it doesn't really matter if it was 31k or 10k he was going to die from it. But still 12-16k shots on players that are at 40-60% health is devastating and too high imo. Exec style's bonus should be halved.
That right there would bring GWF damage down to fair levels, and we would stop seeing most teams stack 3-4 of them in domination.
But what I view is more important than that rebalancing is redoing the instigator tree to bring some diversity to the class. Currently every GWF in PVP is Destroyer. There is no reason to go Sent or instigator.
Destroyer has been made the damage feat tree, in a big way. But it has also been made the CC tree. Bonuses to takedown and roar coupled in the same tree as all the damage increases seems like you are going to pigeon hole players to take that tree.
Sentinel is the tank/survivability tree. It marks itself apart as such, but it just isn't wanted in pvp right now.
What is Instigator? It is pointless. It isn't even wanted in PVE, so what role is this feat tree trying to fill? It looks like the devs want it to be a support/damage tree, but the support aspects of it are weak, and the damage is beyond supbar. The abilities it requires you to use are never used in pvp. Look at the two other trees in regards to class features. Destroyer has 2 feats that buff 2 class features (Improved Reaction: Ferocious Reaction, and Focused Destroyer: Destroyer). Sentinel has (Battle Trample: Trample the Fallen, and Master at Arms: Weapon Master). What does Instigator have? None. So 2 feat trees buff 2 class features each, and one tree buffs none of them? The two main class features that aren't buffed via feats currently are Bravery and Steadfast Determination. To avoid overlap, Instigator should buff both of these in some way.
So Instigator needs to be revitalized to give some diversity of choices in the GWF class. Also added where I would allocate points.
INSTIGATOR FEATS:
TIER1
Student of the sword got nerfed hard, but is still semi decent (-5% defense for 5 seconds after a crit). 5/5
Fleeted Foot (15% run speed for 3s after controlling a target) is bad, but its a tier 1 feat, everyone will go for Student, so this can be ignored. 0/5
TIER2
Vicious Advantage (Combat Advantage grants 5% more damage and crit) pretty good feat. Decent enough for T2. Starts to shape this tree into a crit and CA buff tree. 0/5
Reinforced Surge (FLS leaves targets prone another 1s) Not too special. Should have a cooldown reduction component with it. Should be removed. Destroyer has prone ability buffs. Instigator needs a buff to at least one class feature, as the other feat trees have 2. Reinforced Surge is now Unyielding Determination Steadfast Determination doubles the amount of Determination gained while in combat and while active increases damage by 8%. 5/5
TIER3
Nimble Runner (Sprint and Punishing charge grant 10% more Deflect) 10% deflect on sprint is weak, and no one uses punishing charge, unless this tree starts to buff it more so its worth using. I changed the tree to add to Punishing charge, so dropping sprint from this and further increasing Punishing Charge makes sense. So Numble Runner now also increases punishing charge damage by 25% and reduces the cooldown on recharging by 3s. 5/5
Allied Opportunity (Mighty Leap and Not So Fast deal 10% more damage and allies gain CA for 3s) Really weak. Both of these skills are garbage. Now you have people in this tree buffing punishing charge, mighty leap, and not so fast. 3 skills currently no one uses. This is another group-buffing feat that should hone this feat tree as the party-buff/utility tree for GWFs, but in PVP no one in their right mind uses these skills. Punishing charge and mighty leap could have potential if buffed from feats properly.
This is where the tree has its downfall, or starts it. If Destroyer is going to be max damage and control (really a bad idea to put both of these in the same tree, its the obvious pvp choice), Instigator should be steering players away from CC towards buffing group damage. Allied Opportunity needs to buff PC and/or buff from Mighty Leap more. Destroyer makes players use IBS/Knockdown/Roar(or FLS). Destroyer's 3 skills are direct burst damage, damage with a prone, aoe control. Instigator should be Punishing Charge/Mighty Leap/Restoring Strike. That would give it multi-target damage, movement+aoe damage, and direct burst damage+utility heal. I know, I probably lost you here, let me go through my idea for the following feats.
So, Allied Opportunity is now Heroic Leap: Mighty Leap's cooldown is reduced 6s (16s down to 10s) and its damage is increased by 50%. Targets hit by it are slowed 15% for 3s and allies gain combat advantage against struck targets for 3s. Crits double the duration of the slow and combat advantage. Hey! Now heroic leap is decent! Falls in line with the crit centric tree, and group buffing. 5/5
TIER4
Group Assault (wicked strike deals 5% more damage for each target hit). This feat sucks. Maybe its decent for PVE, but most PVE players are going Destroyer. So lets change it completely. Group Assault is now Unswerving Bravery: Bravery class feature now also has a 25% chance on Deflect to immediately add a charge of Punishing Charge. 5/5
Crippling Strike (Spinning Strike and Avalanche of Steel now slow targets by 50% for 5s). Decent, but spinning strike doesn't do enough damage to warrant using it over other dailies. It should increase the damage by 10-20%. At the very least.
TIER5
Instigator's Vengence (12% more damage unless hit, 3s reset). So Destroyer gets 40% more damage which can be kept up continuously, instigator gets 12% more damage but not if you get hit? By far the weakest TIER5 for GWFs. We still need some kind of buff for Restoring Strike so that Instigators have some kind of burst, direct damage skill. But keeping with the theme of the build by buffing teammate or debuffing the target should happen. So IV now is altered: Restoring Strike adds 'Wreckage' to the enemy and Restoring Strike does 15% more damage. 'Wreckage' increases the GWF's damage to this target by 20%, reduces their regen and lifesteal by 50%, and reduces their Tenacity by 25% for 5 seconds. 1/1
So lets add this all up.
Instigators will use the following skills, mostly.
Mighty Leap = cooldown is reduced 6s (16s down to 10s) and its damage is increased by 50%. Targets hit by it are slowed 15% for 3s and allies gain combat advantage against struck targets for 3s. Crits double the duration of the slow and combat advantage to 6s.
Punishing Charge = 10% deflect, damage by 25% and reduces the cooldown on recharging by 3s. While using Bravery class feature, 25% chance on Deflect to add a charge of Punishing Charge.
Restoring Strike = 15% more damage, adds 'Wreckage' to the enemy. 'Wreckage' increases the GWF's damage to this target by 20%, reduces their regen and lifesteal by 50%, and reduces their Tenacity by 25% for 5 seconds. Cooldown on Restoring Strike is 15s, this means a 5s uptime 10s downtime for this buff on a single target. The direct damage increase only helps the GWF, but everyone in their group benefits from the reduction in regen/lifesteal/tenacity on the enemy.
Class features
Steadfast Determination doubles the amount of Determination gained while in combat and while active increases damage by 8%.
Bravery class feature now also has a 25% chance on Deflect to immediately add a charge of Punishing Charge.
Daily
Savage Advance
Slam
So every 10 seconds you will be able to Mighty Leap. Which will have decent damage (aoe), slow targets and grant CA against them for 3-6s.
Punishing Charge will grant you 10% deflect, its damage will be 25% higher, it will come back faster, and if you Deflect an attack you can immediately get another charge.
Restoring Strike will do 15% more damage, increase your damage by 15% for 5s, lower the enemy's tenacity by 25% and regen/lifesteal by 50%.
You will have a static 8% more damage at all times from using Steadfast AND gain determination faster than probably Destroyer does, also gaining it while in combat but not doing damage. Every 5s you will do 20% more damage (higher still from the - tenacity), and then lose it for 10s before gaining it again, though this will only be single target.
Rotations: Mighty Leap to target (Target(s) slowed 15% for 3s / allies gain combat advantage against target(s) for 3/6s), Restoring strike a target (+20% damage for 5 seconds, plus more from reduced tenacity), punishing charge 3x. Then more punishing if you got a recharge proc, otherwise back to Mighty leap.
Post edited by janus408 on
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Comments
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
You don't find it stupid that we have 3 feat trees and one of them may as well not be there because it is so laughably pointless?
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Never know? They have the GF at the bottom of that list and they LOVE GWFs....
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
--> either buff party or debuff enemies .
thats what i understand under an instigator.
Have you actually played any other class? Have you seen anyone play CW with Oppressor or TR with Saboteur? Have you seen how bad DC feats are?
I think the GWF is just fine as he is.
I play a TR by the way, maybe you haven't seen some seriously OP CW's HR's or DC's around.
Maybe suggest new things but don't attack the DESTRO tree, It's all that the GWF has, and it should not be changed in any way.