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Lifesteal Vs Regen
sasageru
Member Posts: 269 Arc User
Hey, I'm a GF in game and working towards a DPS build with survivability. As a result I've been working on increasing my critical stats and HP.
But the purpose of this thread, is basically this: Lifesteal or Regen or both?
I've been told on a few occasions 'get lifesteal', but from reading around a lot of people compare it to regeneration and suggest its not necessary if you've already got decent regen.
I'm no expert at the game, i'm still learning, so although I've looked for recent comparisons I've not found much that goes into any depth.
So discussion point. For guardian fighter, is lifesteal worth the effort if regens already involved? Any advice welcome ^^
But the purpose of this thread, is basically this: Lifesteal or Regen or both?
I've been told on a few occasions 'get lifesteal', but from reading around a lot of people compare it to regeneration and suggest its not necessary if you've already got decent regen.
I'm no expert at the game, i'm still learning, so although I've looked for recent comparisons I've not found much that goes into any depth.
So discussion point. For guardian fighter, is lifesteal worth the effort if regens already involved? Any advice welcome ^^
DPS Rogue | Heal/Buff Cleric
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Now let's consider Regen & Lifesteal:
-Regen ticks for missing HP (meaning the bigger the pool the bigger the initial-med ticks) and it's always on (if you're not full health XD)
-Lifesteal (that many people say "optimized" at 10% so 1k-ish?) of course grants you HP depending on your DPS.
Now, GF is renowned for all BUT Dpsing in a good way (pvp) BUT for PvE it's not a bad thing to have, probably. I've seen a GF with perfect Blooddrinker enchant, for instance (and he was pretty good imho, still)
In any case, imho once you maxed out Regen, and deflect (for a GF imho is important), why not try some ol' lifesteal :P
But mind your output damage first: it could be too low to gain something out of LS in a timely fashion (like the enchs that reflect back damage in ridiculous low percentages)
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
I didn't read any other comments so excuse me if this has been said! I read the forums often, I continuously see do not get lifesteal GF don't hit hard enough to benefit...
Now as this is true, I will now disagree!
I decided to get rid of my defense / Max HP enchants for lifesteal and I have a much better time maintaining HP now as I also use the Endless Consumption boon, and 250 incoming healing boon.
My life steal is at 9%, my regen is at 9%. Lifesteal is every hit all damage, regen is every 3 seconds so I can actually gain much more HP hitting things then waiting for a regen tick. Of course this is at 80-90% hp as regen tick at this little are very low!
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
WHat he said! With cleaves hitting many targets your gaining HP on every hit.
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Ive try it and yeah it makes a difference.
So if you already have your Regen Requirements up then u should try to get some
Lifesteal.
The trick is to stack lifesteal on top of a perfect life drinker. Even with the low damage a GF does you can still expect to regain 10%+ of damage given +8.8% of weapon damage for EVERY SINGLE ENEMY HIT. My Gf is a protector set up like this and he gets around 200 HP back each enemy he hits with a single swing of cleave. That's significant
Gloom level 60 Control Wizard
Dusk level 60 Trickster Rogue
Dawn level 60 Devoted Cleric
Eclipse level 60 Hunter Ranger
Wrath level 60 Great Weapon Fighter
Jinx level 60 Scourge Warlock
Considering the usual/typical GF tactic, I'd say lifesteal isn't too optimal for GFs -- if anything, the number of attacks attempted per given amount of time is way too low -- probably lowest in game.
Let's compare it with my TR, a WK perma. Perma with thrown knives obviously imply [large number of attacks dealt] vs. [very little number of attacks received], in which case synergizes very well with lifesteal even when considering heal depression. Especially since I am a WK, I have means to consistently deal repeated, high damage even when CoS is spent.
● I've got around 11% lifesteal(from various sources) + 3% Heal Bonus from boon + Endless Consumption from Dread Ring. Endless Consumption is quoted to be around 30~33% chance without an internal cooldown. As a Whisperknife, Disheartening Strike deals 5 additional ticks over 5 seconds which replicate the initial damage. Against equally geared opponents a crit would result in around 1.8k damage average times six = amounting upto 10.8k damage in 5 seconds.
● Now, since DHS is an at-will, it can be applied to multiple targets, so if we suppose there is a big fight at node 2 with maybe 3 visible targets around, if we land a crit hit on all three targets with DHS that is constant source of stolen life over the next 5 seconds.
● 11% Lifesteal with 1.8k damage is 198 HP healed. A 40% heal depression would bring it down to 119, and a 3% healing bonus would bring it back up to 122. So, 3 crit DHS landed against 3 visible enemies will tick for 122 Hp for the next 5 seconds for six times, with all three = 122 x 6 x 3.
● Now, Endless Consumption will give out an expectancy of approximately 1/3rd of lifesteal ticks doing 3 times the amount, so the calculation is actually more closer to = {(122 x 4) + (366 x 2)} x 3 = 3660 HP healed over 5 seconds. This is an at-will attack, so it can be kept up forever as long as there is someone to attack.
● Let's add in additional attacks with CoS. My CoS does average 15k damage for all 8 strikes with plenty of crits. The total amount of life stolen would amount upto 1020HP healed, not counting endless consumption. With Endless Consumption this figure would probably pushed upto around 1200 HP, give or take a few.
● So, supposing 3 enemies around and 3 lucky DHS crits on all of them, within 5~10 second time span my TR would pull off a total of 26 attacks (18 DHS ticks + 8 CoS attacks) for a total of 4860 HP healed. Over the course of those 5~10 seconds my regen also tick for two or three times, usually around 400 HP per tick (regen is very low for me), so that's another 1200HP with 3 ticks. In those 10 seconds, little over 6k HP is healed without any kind of heal support at all.
● As a perma, I would be hit ... 0 times, during those 10 seconds, so no loss in HP.
● So, to some it up, in the span of 5~10 seconds, I would do a total of:
- 26 attacks
- 47,400 damage
- 6060 HP healed
● With Life Drinker, 8.8% of the damage I'd dealth would be converted to HP.. so that's another 4171 HP.
● In a span of 10 seconds, a total of around 10k HP healed through various lifesteal related healing alone, even with heal depression (!!)
..now ofcourse, the above is ideal conditions. In real life the actual performance varies according to combat conditions, hence you can expect maybe 60~75% of the ideal numbers. But the point is this -- to make lifesteal really work in PvP, you need three things:
■ a means of attack that maximizes the number of attacks dealt
■ that attack needs to be constant, repeatable, refresh/reapplicable (= at-wills)
■ a means to minimize number of attacks received
Any class that has a DoT at-will power with heavy damage ticks, that can be applied to multiple targets at a time can do very well. If the class is dependant on encounters with recharge times as main source of damage, then lifesteal may lose a lot of efficiency. I doubt lifesteal would help GFs a lot. If anything, at least in PvP, the combat style of prone - prone - prone - block until prones recharge... has way too few attacks to make lifesteal work.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
BUT: Regen is actually not that easy to stack beyond 1-1.2k, and the regen/lifesteal question is not an either/or issue: you can have both.
Getting regen to 1-1.2k is pretty easily done, and lifesteal at 1-1.2k is also fairly trivial to acquire, especially if you use a stone. Constant AoE at-will flailing does generate a lot of hitpoints at ca. 9-10% lifesteal, and anything that keeps your health above the 50% mark for longer is generally a good thing. Basically lifesteal helps at 50-100% health, and regen saves your life at 50% or lower.
Plus it means you don't need to be quite so dependent on a DC.
Life drinker is bad, at least in PVP, its 8.8 when perfect and based off weapon damage whereas we have the lowest weapon damage in the entire game! So 641 weapon damage / 8.8% = 56 damage ~ Now add in deflection and tenacity and you are looking at some ridiculously poor incoming healing.
I tried it! Even with all my incoming healing boosts, boons, etc its junk. I run with a Greater Plague and a Greater Bile I took off my CW for the time being... I found Bile my damage per hit is lower because I do not get the DR mitigation bonus, however I found my over all DPS is almost the same whilst I am having a much better time fighting annoying TRs with Bile as they cannot perma as much plucking me down. I can get a couple hits they stealth and 4 seconds later pop/pop/pop there he is SLAM!!!!
As for lifesteal as an IV its probably not as good, I play Swordmaster with high AP gains. So Cresendo can save my life especially when used with Steel Defense.
I have specced around and this play style is awkward but works for me... I am not a cookie cutter guy.
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Gloom level 60 Control Wizard
Dusk level 60 Trickster Rogue
Dawn level 60 Devoted Cleric
Eclipse level 60 Hunter Ranger
Wrath level 60 Great Weapon Fighter
Jinx level 60 Scourge Warlock
Lifesteal and Lifedrinker both work on the same principle elements, hence probably the TRs are best optimized for their use. I can certainly see both Lifesteal and Lifedrinker having very little use for GFs or even GWFs in PvP.
In case of TRs -- well, in my case anyway, provided there are always targets around I can suck enough life to go from 50% HP to full in maybe 30secs -- way faster than the 10 regen ticks.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
aim for both 1k+. i would advise going for regen first if you are gearing up as lifesteal wont be as beneficial. But if you want to optimise your survivability for PvE, yourll want to try get both. (hard to stack lifesteal, when you kinda want +hp in defensive slots though)
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
Wow! from 50% to full health! May I know what is your life steal stats? I do PvP alots and life steal does help but not big enough to be like yours. For my case, it is either I am dead or the opponent was dead before I can life steal from 50% HP to full. I can only think this was possible if the TR build is a perm stealth build, which my TR is not.
My apologies for out of topic, since this is a fighter class forum and not TR forum.
Ebony (Whisperknife)
I've still got to pour more into life steal once i've got enough to change up my other defense enchants and we'll see how that goes. Thanks all
Yea on a TR I can see lidesteal and lifedrinker being amazing! i mean every DF you get off you can re fill!
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Yea, this is my opinion too. Having lifesteal on my GF is far superior then the extra 1.7% DR I was getting!
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!