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How's TR right now?
brun2000
Member Posts: 244 Arc User
Hello, just made this thread to ask what is being done to make TR's stronger in PVE, anything?
I want to intall this preview thing but its 5GB and I don't have time for that.
Any info?
I want to intall this preview thing but its 5GB and I don't have time for that.
Any info?
Post edited by brun2000 on
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I'm still waiting for their PVP nerf to care about that
The power change buffed damage slightly, but it did that for everyone.
Currently we know the Devs are working on a way to nerf stealth, which will inevitably utterly destroy the tiny remaining PvE viability of the class as well as most of its PvP viability. This will inevitably not come with any sort of compensation for taking away our one way of not dying horribly and will probably manage to gimp the Executioner path.
Meanwhile GWF and CW are as OP as ever. Yep.
TRs have been on top of PVP ladder for the most part.
Really looking forward to this permastealth nerf
People like you are the reason the TR is getting destroyed. Instead of figuring out a way to counter a perma you cry a river of tears asking for nerfs. This has got to be the worst/crybaby community I have witnessed in my many years of playing mmorpgs.
TR are fine, probably could use a nerf to survivability ( Perma )
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
WOOOOOOO so much dude (sarcasm)... was it shocking execution? If yes... Get out, if no... what debuffs did you have?
BTW, 14.2k is easy if you have perf vorpal on a GF and a ton of power BUT, have you never been hit for 35k like I have by a GWF? With just 1 skill... I died! GG CRYPTIC!
Now here's the thing: Tr's are supposed to deal a huge burst out of nowhere but die right after that, wich is usually what happens because their stealth will be ****ing and some dodges are not going to help that much escaping a whole team.
GWF are not, they are supposed to deal more damage than GF but less than TR, wich is not true at all, they can outdamage a TR even on 1v1 Fights and outtank a GF on everything (their resists are bigger than GF and block isn't going to help much if you have alot of people on you!)
The only nerf TR's need is on Perma-stealth wich is a fix needed, but otherwise they need a buff on: Smoke bomb (make it deal dmg [not much] per second on all targets inside [To help dungeon acceptance]); Duelist Flurry (More dps as for the time it takes to activate does not compensate in PVP and its not enough in PVE; 2 more stacks on Cloud of Steel; 20% more damage on Socking execution and give its prone back (You may not like it but its true, for a single target daily and considering its the slowest building AP class in the game, its too weak currently).
To add off to these changes needed, GWF needs to be nerfed on overall damage and GF needs a bit more guard meter.
Well we agree GWF are Overpowered! Trs however are not underpowered, there are classes in the dire muck way below TRs. CW / GF / DC all need help and are usually the classes that feed the TRs kills along with the GWF and HR....
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
TRs are getting destroyed?
Look at the top of the leaderboards. Full of TRs.
Instead of crying about TRs getting nerfed, why don't you read some guides and learn how these Trickster Rogues stay atop the leaderboard and garner those KDR.
Dude, do you know wich TR's are on top of leaderboards? Perma-stealth! Those who do not like to play as perma mostly have problems in PVP, I have no problems if they remove the perma-stealth ability as long as they don't nerf the normal stealth and buff some of the other powers and at-wills.
And on a side note, TR's are not wanted at all in PVE wich makes it hard to change sets even if we want to.
I don't think the problem is so much with the TR but with our competing classes in PVE (especially CW and GWF). We really cannot compete with those two in damage, and not even our single target damage is superior anymore as they have surpassed us there as well (to stipulate by single target I mean the damage they can do on a single target regardless of what method they choose). I think the area we are hurting in is in our daily powers, with only one that is viable for damage (whirlwind and it is an AE and fairly poor as burst). Lurkers is relegated to a stealth extension with the previous nerf to its damage and although it adds a bit more damage % for a brief period it is not enough to count as burst.
I also think the perma stealth issue is a problem that they should have already been addressed as it is harmful to the growth of the class. Bait and switch could be modified to have it do an instantaneous stun or maybe a one second "smoke bomb" effect when activated and no longer refill stealth. I think that would be enough to keep it a viable tool. Shadow strike could either be changed to fill only half the stealth bar and have a slight increase in its damage. I am afraid that the proposed changes to both of these that I have heard discussed which will simply increase the cool downs will even further harm the currently feeble (in PVE) TR. I also think that stealth extending effects on armor was a very bad idea too. The problem was rogues were staying stealth too long and the response we got was armor that let us stay in stealth longer... I say these effect should be replaced with something else that is viable.
There was more I wanted to post if I can remember, but Remo is up and I got to get on that.
Stealth is not your only way of avoiding horrible death. CW's can't stealth, and they avoid death all the time.
TR - Most damage, lest defense.
GF - Least damage, most defense.
Yin & Yang.
They are very good in PvP, yet very bad in PvE.
I don't know how the devs are going to fix them without making them too good in PvP or much worse in PvE.
It's a pretty bad dilemma.
What makes them too good in PvP is the super long stealth. What makes them bad in PvE is that the competing classes deal way too much more damage than a TR.
Even when we had the best single target damage it was not necessarily enough to choose us over anotehr damage class, but it wasn't enough to boot us from a group to replace us with a GWF/CW as tends to be the mentality of PuGs these days. I am very tired of being told "sorry we need a dps class" and then after I explain that TR are one I get something like "yeah but we need a good dps class".
You're really using one of the two most OP classes in the game as an argument that TR doesn't need stealth? Really?
CW stays up because it stacks Lifesteal and hits multiple targets for massive damage, filling its HP with nearly every attack. And three dodges. It's also much easier to stack Defense on them than it is on TR. My CW has about 400 more Defense than my TR without trying. Oh, and she's constantly throwing around powers that slow, stun, daze, freeze, knock around, etc multiple monsters at a time without breaking a sweat. No kidding CW stays up without stealth, it has a dozen other ways to stay up, and they're called 'crowd control'. TR has... Even more squishiness than CW, very little(and bad) AoE powers that have to replace other better powers to be used, and two dodge rolls. Oh, and Impossible to Catch, which is only available to Master Infiltrator and occupies an encounter slot. With a 15 second cooldown and about five seconds of duration. Plus if you don't activate it from stealth you just deflect, not dodge. Still helps, but yeah.
I don't know what godly pings you people get, but mine is always bad and I'm always lagging and rubberbanding. Makes it a little hard to play 'perfectly' when the AoE that killed you didn't register for you in time, or you rubbered back into it. Sometimes you can still avoid things, but get enough of a cloud of enemies and you're boned because there's too much going on at once.
I actually recently stopped relying on Stealth because screw it they're gonna screw it up sooner or later anyway, and took Shadow Strike off my bar for Dazing Strike. It's helped my DPS, but decreased my survivability since yeah, other than the initial going in, the monsters always see me. :P And hey-o, once I have five things AoEing me things get ugly and I'm spamming ItC as often as possible and healing potions like never before. Woo? Oh, Smoke Bomb! Yeah let's kill our DPS even more, and half the stuff that actually dazes you don't even care about. XD
But yeah, seriously. You... Really think CW is in any way comparable to TR. I don't even. XD
That'd make me happy so much that'd respec back to my previous "combat" build.
WTB Class Reroll please
It doesn't feel that OP because you don't really KILL things like a boss but a perma stealth TR has huge impact to PVP when play properly.
In a premade perma TR share the same degree of importance with GWF. In a solo queue game a perma TR outweighs GWF since it is easier for TR to stalemate multiple players on point.
There would be no... "overpowered" being thrown around right now if they had never Nerfed rogue damage in the first place
Nor would anyone be calling GWFs "overpowered".
BUT... because these nerfaholics keep <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> up the PvE and PvP game with their nerfs....
The Rogue is now a subpar damager in comparison when they should be on par...
Someone needs to go back and reverse that previous decision. It was obviously the wrong one at this point.
STOP thinking ONLY in terms of PvP... Yeah there is another part of this game... and PVP is not a "majority" thing.
I'd highly appreciate it if people would stop hosing up the rest of the game with these incessant nerfs that haven't fixed a **** thing and only made the situations worse on everyone else for their own personal selfishness.
We would not be having these kinds of problems with Rogues... grouping and PvE if not for the short sighted nerfaholic syndrome.
Tenacity was going to be the big band-aid for that. Unfortunately, it did not work out exactly the way they planned
As to the topic. TR (Other then perma stealth build) needs a buff especially for PvE. NERF after NERF after NERF has made the TR perma -stealth the only really viable TR build sadly. I have non perma that is almost 17k GS and it's about half the "class" it was in module 1 with out all the adjustments with a GS around 10k (not that GS is the end all be all but just to illustrate that with almost 1/2 the GS I have now the class was more powerful then it is now or at least certainly seemed that way I don't have combat logs to prove it - but I'm sure most that have played since beta will agree)
A mob is chasing a team mate? We cannot reasonably hit it with our at wills, except for our limited daggers that will have virtually no effect on any mob in the game. For our encounters to hit we have to "guestimate" and move in front of the path we think they will travel and hope our timing is perfect. For smoke bomb just run a good distance ahead and pop it as it is a little latent in its response and hope they run through it.
Enough with this. You ruined our class and you want to ruin it even more .And for the Moderator that is going to delete my post . Instead of deleting posts that reflect the reality in your game you should contact your devs to make FIXES . Not Nerfing Buffing thus Unbalancing the game and destroy our gameplay....We are human beings not USD - EU Cattle .Respect it .
GF's certainly need a lot of help I do not deny that. The thing is, though, that in many dungeons a GF will already do more total damage than a TR (because of mass mobs I suppose and AE damage perhaps?). I think the best way to help the GF is to actually make the mobs hit harder and the GF handle it much much better than they do now. GF's should be the toughest of the bunch but because of how things are it "looks" like GWF and CW and even DC are much better at handling being in the middle of a mass of menacing monsters.
/wrists
1. Perma stealth is not OP. What it does is that it punishes people for being bad PvPers. The problem here is that multiple people should not be getting sucked in to deal with a perma stealth TR. You simply pick the most suitable player to deal with the perma stealth TR and let them 1v1 on the zone.
2. There are a lot of ways to deal with a perma stealth TR. Examples: Bilethorn enchant, POTB/SB (TR), Water of Elz on artifact slot 1 + pvp pots to handle CoS, LoR, Cos Knife (knife stays visible for a few secs while rogue is in stealth mode). HR, CW and GWF's also have a plethora of powers to handle a perma stealth rogue np.
Now we could go around nerfing classes that are good at punishing bad players but are not OP, or we could actually nerf the OP classes such as GWF where the problem is that it outweighs all the other classes in terms of, well...pretty much everything.
So in short, even though GWF's are at the top of the leaderboards the only reason why TR's would be up there aswell is because there are simply a lot of bad PvPers around. And how will they learn if there's no class around to punish their dumb actions? Exactly, they won't. In other words, TR's should not be nerfed, they are required to stay the same as they are now, get good at PvP, stop blaming being bad on something other than yourself.