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Why are T1's so much more fun to run than T2's ?
pandora1x
Member Posts: 725 Arc User
Whenever I run a T2, I always feel like I'm doing a chore. But I actually enjoy running T1's.
And no, it's not because T1's are easier, I'm geared and cleared all dungeons in this game.
Anyone else feel this way?
And no, it's not because T1's are easier, I'm geared and cleared all dungeons in this game.
Anyone else feel this way?
Post edited by pandora1x on
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Are you a wizard?
I made this thread right after running Idris for nostalgia lol
ToS is horrible because the adds pretty much one shot everyone and their are easily one for each member of the group, theoretically I think its possible that the blade masters can spawn and wipe a party if they all targeted a separate team member, but I guess they all just attack who ever has aggro and make sure that player dies cause two or three blademasters hitting a player is overkill with the damage they deal.
I really think add damage needs to be toned down, they can still widdle you down as cryptic puts a lot of them in the fights but good god so many can just kill you in two or three hits, its kinda ridiculous.
Also the fights in the earlier dungeons just seem more entertaining and lots of people can run through those dungeons pretty fast. The later dungeons trash mobs can be problematic easily, even taking short cuts spell plague can take quite some time to complete so not many people want to run it. Dread Vault is the same and the fact that it doesn't drop hardly anything that anyone wants no one wants to run it either. Sadly most would rather run CN for the main and off hand set pieces than run Dread Vault for a non set piece main hand.
This game is losing its ability to influence players to run dungeons its seemingly just getting to the point that people in guilds that will run stuff to gear their members is all that is getting done, queuing for pugs just to run for rewards is gone due to the BoP. Even in my guild its not often we have a bunch of people on to go run MC just because we'd like to despite someone like me who needs the drops in it for my characters everyone else already has theirs and since the drops are BoP no one wants to run it because there is no "profit" in it. Same for VT although my guild is starting to work more on fighting that dungeon.
I also find it amusing the the set bonus on gears from some of the T1 dungeons is actually better suited to T2 level of play. Like the High Prophet gear bonus is more desirable than Miracle Healer and such. Sad that I have a full set of T2 and i'm not wanting to hit up T1 or run a bunch more T2 in hopes of getting T1 drops from the DD chest.
ToS has a trick, those blademaster, cw must stun them, end just it, everyone else hit boss and boss itself take care of those blademaster to heal so, u dont need to control them too long, only a few seconds
Yes I know, my guild has ran in that many times with 2 - 3 CW and those runs with a cleric and a GWF/GF tend to make short work for the boss, but having a boss that relies on a game mechanic of having to use a CW and no other class is a bit annoying. We have ran without CW and won but its less than fun doing that (at least I don't think i'd want to do it again). My CW will always walk in with OF as a daily and that does wonders, even better with 2 CW with OF as a daily. But not all runs are that way. Also things happen and oops no one has a stun or OF when those guys come out, now what? Yep someone is on the floor.
But since there are HR, CW, and TR as a dps ish type rolls GWF filling in dps and or tanky too, it would be nice to have dungeons that didn't rely solely on having a CW to complete or relying on people with 14k+ GS to finish.
My main character is a CW and my friend played a HR, it was easier to find groups for just me than it was with the two of us, HR was the least desired dungeon class, mine being the most wanted. I think the game should have a need for any and all characters, sure a CW might make it easier (btw TR does have a nice stun although less damaging and smaller area) but a HR or TR should be every bit as useful.
Just my opinion, Lots of the later dungeons just seem a bit off on how difficult they are, at least as far as final bosses go.
Also at times after a dungeon has been out for a while, wish the developers would then come out and actually say how they intended the battle to be won with the various class compositions. I would not want to rob people of learning their own way (and to figure it out through trial and error) but honestly I really would like to see developers mention how Frozen Heart is done with a group of 6 - 8k GS people (or whatever the minimum is) and win that doesn't involve a GF or someone running in circles trailing adds while everyone tries to dps the boss and then wipe because there are too many adds. I would like to know what play test set up was used, group composition and the "intended" technique or set of possible techniques (was there should be more than 1 way to fight something and win) can be employed to beat the boss. That would be pretty nice that if at least after a game had been out a couple of months or a new expansion with dungeons and the like came out that developers could post how they intended a fight to work. Like was it intended for a GF/GWF to sit on the boss while the rest of the group run around killing adds as quickly as possible only hitting the boss in the few seconds or less that might be in between new add spawns???
For those of you that might respond "look at youtube" those are not the developers (to my knowledge) and so far youtube is filled with people glitching (no one wants to do dungeons the "right/intended" way it seems) dungeons or having groups of nothing but GWF or CW or some mixture of only those two classes with occassional clerics thrown in. I want to see or read actual developer input on how they thought a group of people running a dungeon in blue gear (and no enchants higher than 5 or 6) are supposed to handle some of their boss fights.
yeah t1 dungeons are a bit better then t2 and boss fights are a lot better there since there is not so huge need to have cw stacked team there and it feels like every class is good to have there but in t2 dungeons all classes feels useless only cw works great on it i wish they would remaster t2 dungeons for mod 4 and make them more like t1 think this would be greater then another dungeon to farm
T1s are not that add-heavy like T2s, that makes them a lot more enjoyable with mixed classes (as opposed to a CW-heavy party that makes every dungeon pretty much the same, just spam AS/OF and then spam AoE, you don't even need to see what you're shooting at).
Actually there are hidden bosses in T2, just NOBODY goes to fight them. ToS has one, Spellplauge has one, PK might have one I keep getting something early in the dungeon that says its used later but I have yet to be with a group that uses it anything later, just follow glow trail to camp site near ruined town let gwf run in die everyone gm help to spawn at last campfire, I really would like to find people that constantly do dungeons the "right" way.
I'm sure there are other hidden or not so hidden just not on the glow trail path bosses. I think the problem is that the developers didn't put any drops on them or if there is there seems to be more a chance you get nothing as opposed to something you would want or could at least salvage for.
Dev's will you please put drops on optional bosses that would actually encourage people to start using them. Perhaps make "optional/hidden" bosses rather difficult and start putting special drops on those, such as say maybe mounts higher level enchants or even a coalescent ward.
Join the legit channel. Legit peeps are awesome.
^ this.
/channel_join NW_Legit_Community
Maybe "legendary" versions of the T1s that were harder than the epics would be nice
They run around with something protruding from their forehead while farting rainbows?
If you're complaining about not getting enough heals, then chances are you should be dodging more and drinking some potions. I mean, you might have one of the rare DCs who takes a whole bar o' deeps, but this can be identified within seconds of the first fight. If you don't see a blue circle at any point, ask them to slot astral shield.
Amazing clerics may be rare, but the bar for "adequate" is so low that it's hard to get a truly bad one.
As for stacking CWs, this is not so much because "GFs can't hold aggro", but because it makes everything facerollingly easy and fast. Tanking is not a requirement, or even a good/workable strategy, in this game. Murdering heaps of trashmobs quickly is a better approach, and if you don't have the deeps to do that, see "dodging more and drinking some potions", above.
Last Karru I did with them, I got flamed for not following them when they were climbing on the walls to avoid half of the fights. Maybe a FullLegit sub-channel of the NW_Legit channel would be a good idea, for people who want to stalk the hidden bosses.
Was that the genuine legit channel? le shock!
And of course some of those groups are of the "kill this one dude and then three giants spawn and then another three giants spawn and then the party wipes and then people are all a bit confused"-variety, which is another reason to not engage them.
Legit (in my experience) is not about "murdering absolutely everything, ever, even the stuff you have to go out of your way to fight", it's about not wall glitching/campfire jumping/death resetting. A party of adventurers could legitimately sneak round monsters, whereas a party running up and dying then requesting GM help to respawn further into the dungeon is...less easy to justify.
At least as far as I'm concerned.
But I'm surprised you got 'flamed' over this: my experience is that people usually point out that these fights are unnecessary, but otherwise just get on with the murdering. I've had essentially zero negative experiences with legit, whereas pugs are pretty much the polar opposite.
It's a GWF add.
It's pretty common. I joined a ToS legit, and an EoA GWF got the party to climb the walls and go up and over cliffs to skip most of the instance, and called me names when I wouldn't.
Obviously, I bailed, as not fighting most of the instance is no fun at all, and not what I expect from the legit channel, but it happens more often than I am happy with.
Oh I agree with you that the channel is good to get groups with , I asked for that exact reason , I was surprised anybody who forms a party on legit could get away with that , I've seen others complain in the channel when party members are trying to cheat, I've never come across anyone who wants to shortcut and stuff when with legit guys.
Yes, there's a similar bit in ToS, where you walk up a falling.. log? Pole.. and can avoid a Drider and adds at the top by dropping off near the end, don't onto the lower level. Again, just not facetanking unnecessary mobs, and in no way exploiting obscure terrain glitches, but I have at least once got a torrent of abuse from someone for that.
In the end, I got hacked off and pointed out that only a cretin would consider it an exploit, at which point, this person shifted onto a torrent of inept obscenities in curiously broken English, and questioning my sexuality both in /p and /w. When we got to the end, he refused to step into the boss room circle, to "punish" me.
That's the only person from Legit that I have ever knowingly put on ignore. Usually the problem is the other way around, and groups are trying to actually glitch and skip half of an instance. In that case, I will politely point out that I don't consider that right in a legit group. If they stop, we're fine. If they don't, I will leave without further drama, so they have plenty of time to replace me with another exploiter- it's up to them.
It's still like day and night compared to the regular LFG channels, though. I've met a lot of nice folks in legit, and always feel a bit ashamed if I do a great dungeon with them, with lots of banter, and later end up killing them in PvP
As a comparison, a pug group would...actually a pug group would probably just die repeatedly at pyraphrenia, so maybe that's a bad example.
Ok, a pug spellplague group is "OMG CW PUNT TEH ADDS U NUB" followed by "STAND HERE AND TEHY ALL JUMP IN TEH LAVA", pretty much on repeat, until you get "sprint to the campfire and die", whereas legit spellplague group does...none of that.
I think you misunderstand me, I am totally fine with just walking around stuff, there's a grand tradition of that in MMOs. If the mobs are too stupid to notice, that's their lookout.
No, it's the jumping repeatedly against the wall to scale it, and then up and over the top of the level, skipping (as I said) great chunks of it that I object to. There are still places where this is possible, though the devs try to close it off. You used to be able to skip actual bosses in Karrundax that way, too. When you do it, the difference is obvious. You're often well into the "behind the scenes" area of non-drawing geometry and things.
I'm totally down with walking past some smelly, unhygenic giants, and also giggling madly too.
Everyone dies there occasionally. There's no dishonour in just screaming "FOR PONY!" and charging in to get it over and done with. That's usually the quickest and least annoying way, and it's not a particularly interesting fight anyway
Yes, a lot of people still cherish the notion that you need to punt at all in SP, bless them. There are so much better ways to approach most of it. Punting is so last year, daaaahling.