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5 dps pve fashion
zaphrail
Member Posts: 62
I just wonder, why ppl r triin to form 5 dps DK parties last weeks.
Dont they know the math?
Full buff/debuff DC (as any hi end pve dc should be) is without any doubts much better than the 5th dps, any, even the best cw/gwf on server - the 5th dps just cannot outdmg the dmg multiplier on the rest 4 team members from DC, no way.
So where this fasion come from, to run 5 dps? It used to be less so.
Dont they know the math?
Full buff/debuff DC (as any hi end pve dc should be) is without any doubts much better than the 5th dps, any, even the best cw/gwf on server - the 5th dps just cannot outdmg the dmg multiplier on the rest 4 team members from DC, no way.
So where this fasion come from, to run 5 dps? It used to be less so.
Post edited by zaphrail on
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A DC with a 2/4 + 2/4 set for extra 450 stat bonus is a joke.
So a lot of people think that by getting a 3 GWF and 2 CW party they'll get an edge. But if there's no debuffing there, it won't work too great.
CWs should tab Ray of Enfeeblement and use High Vizier for debuff.
DC (debuff) + 2 CW (debuff) + 2 GWF (damage) is the best party line up for DK in my opinion.
Well... I completely agree with u, that 'healing'/pvp specced/'dps' clerics - not to say 2/4+2/4 - r not good comparing with the 5th dps on hi end fast pve runs.
But are buffer clerics so rare that ppl just dont bother to try to ask in lfg for cleric at all? I thought that on 14-16k solid lvl, when players know what they r doing generally, most clerics just must be buffers
Both GG dungeons are so easy any 5 classes can speed run them, no point in waiting for the ideal party comp. also 3 DPS is pretty much overkill for trash clearing so anything after 3 cw/gwf is just bonus anyway, whether that be DC or TR to speed up the boss kill.
Not sure what you mean by "if there's no debuffing" re: 3gwf/2cw groups. Lets see +53% dmg from the GWFs, +90% from the CWs, just from debuffs there, assuming no ROE.
You're embarrassing yourself here.
How many runs do you usually manage to play in one row with your party?
Cleric:
Analog of HW set (HP) - 30% debuff with full stacks, easy on boss. HW doesnt stack atm, so 1 more HW CW doesnt add unlike 1 HP DC
divine DG - 15% debuff + 20% buff (on melees generally, but ranged could get it knowing it is coming also)]
PoD - 15% debuff
HG - 30 or 35% buff (don remember which exactly)
Multiply that on 4 party members
Compare the gains with the gains from an additional (5th) dps (with debuffs - eigher SoS from gwf or CW's generally used in DK runs)
Add GPf weapon - it is possible on CW/GWF also, but less effective than PVor or other debuffing comparing having cleric with it, add mitigation/passive healing (astral seal) - much more safe mobs pulls available if clearing, add possible linked feat - power boost adds quite a bit to gwf dmg atm, add (though pitiful) cleric's dps (around 1/4 - 1/5 of top dps generally from buffer dc)
Compare again.
To the topic:
Its better to take another CW bcos you can be sure that he is doing damage. A DC might not even have Divine Glow or High Prophet - its a gamble.
A bad CW could do more harm than good to the party actually.
Is it so that percent of decent cw's is just higher than cleric's one?
It is easier to spot a decent CW. The barrier is 13k GS and you can be assured that most of the time, it is a safe pick
Now, if only we could get them to fix Linked Spirit so it proc's off of Astral Shield.
That, and get people to actually stand in a group, so they all get hit with the buff from it and Forgemasters' Flame. Yay 100% uptime.
I play this game since beta, can count on my fingers how many dcs were using at least the HP set, nevermind and plaguefire or terror, some of them only started using divine glow some months ago!
GS requirements for any class is stupid, for DC is the retardest thing people do, if you get a 15k+gs DC yep, he is probably not using the great T1 set...
HAving high GS is killing CW as well, most genius around using VT or MC <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> sets instead specially on a 2/2 arrangement. dudes cant figure even roe usefullness.
Thats the vast amount of players on this game. we have to know that, if you see someone actually worth playing with you try to friend him and never let him go! lol
I cant count how many cw were so bad it hurts on the range of 13-16k gs, unfortunately we cant really rely on GS for it, also GWF with high gs usually are pvp sentinel(dude using freakikng takedown on VT run) <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and pretty much any HR will usually be outdpsed by the cleric(hr being mainly pvp class anyway).
Yesterday, I completed epic temple of spider without a DC. It was my first ever run without a DC.
It was not a smooth fight. Several people went down and one CW died and did not get a DD chest.
A debuff DC increases damage of the other 4dps players AND AND AND gives some healing and some damage mitigation and sometimes a buff or two. The main problem with 5 dps parties is there is less room for error. With a DC, you can make mistakes or even disconnect, and the DC can help the party survive.
I guess most players in NW don't know how beneficial a well-played debuff DC can be.
I never see requests for debuff DC in zone chat.
When I play my debuff DC in a pug, usually no one says anything about the increased damage.
One time, while playing my debuff DC, in temple of spider, one dps player disconnected at final boss.
Another player asked "do we still have enough dps?". My response was, "yes, we have enough dps" (smile).
I think a lot of people get bored blazing dungeons with ease in more traditional party makeup, so I think some people just want to try crazy stuff. My guild does that on occasion, see how far we can get with 5 CW in castle never or see how far we can get using just HR CW or the like.
I personally don't like runs where I draw a lot of aggro because we have no tanky or melee person to distract while I dole out dismembering type of damage. So I avoid groups that do that even if its for fun because at this stage of the game for me I much rather trounce a dungeon and win then spin my wheels and probably fail and get nothing out of it.
I am a pretty good DC, may not be the best out there but using divine glow in dvinity mode with hallowed ground, my groups will **** near demolish a boss in the 6 or so seconds they are buffed up, watching that health meter go down is pretty amazing. I don't use High Prophet I just have the miracle healer as I skipped T1 dungeons and just do T2 and only have 2 pieces of high prophet at the moment, frankly I do just fine without it with good groups.
I do think that for end game purposes, miracle healer should be the T1 set as its bonus would probably be more suited to earlier level 60 play, the High Prophet debuff bonus seems better suited to Elder game play as most parties tend to not need so much healing as they need buffs or boss debuffs.
Not to hijack the thread, but this is bad advice. Ray of Enfeeblement should only be used for boss fights and it should never be used on tab. If you'd like to discuss why we can make a separate thread. But I didn't want an inexperienced CW to see this and think it's good advice.
i have seen a single wizard solo every mob in frozen heart and dwarf king without healing. with such wizards, everyone else just focuses the boss down since there is little need to help with mob control.