test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Enchantment Upgrades - A whine thread
brobora
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 196 Bounty Hunter
Preview offered a chance to test enchant upgrading, I had all rank 7's, 1 coal, 1 stack of peridots.
After 100 copies of my toon, I had full rank 10's and perfects, I believe I had 3 or 4 copies left full. It took hours of clicking, emptying mail, mailing, emptying mail.
The game is unobtainable for a lot of people at the most competitive levels, simply because it now costs 40-50mil AD worth of stuff (including the upgrade enchants and coals) to get full r9/10's.
That's a hell of a lot of grinding, don't forget I had free rank 7's of same type each copy and a peridot stack (99).
Those perfect r9/10 teams still take me out at 14.5k GS, but at least I can rinse the odd one out of that bracket.
Way back when prayer pack coals (dropped lol) could be traded, people could upgrade quickly, they also had the opportunity of saving AD on refinement points just using the same enchant (it's 100k refinement points for a lesser nubcheddar enchant to be upgraded with another lesser nubcheddar enchant + greater mark of potency (100k) + coal (190-250k).
Rank 7 to Rank 10 is still 7 more rank 7's (245k at 35k each), 4 coals for rank 8's (800-1mil ad), 2 coals for rank 9's (400k-500k) and a coal for rank 10 (200k-250k) or 1.645mil refined AD before refinement points.
For perspective; 68.5 days of refine limit on RAD per rank 10 WITHOUT refinement points.
That's 1027.5 days of refine limit, WITHOUT refinement points for 15x rank 10 from "all rank 7's"
Add in the refinement points needed and it's a headache. 656640 refinement points from rank 7 to 1 rank 10. Taking Peridots at 500 refinement points and NO CRITICAL refinements (they don't) it's 656640AD for each, 9,849,600AD for 15x. Another 410 days of refinement limit.
In total, the refinement COST for 15 rank 10's, using peridots at 500AD each is 1437.9 days of refining the limit (719 days with 2 full characters) or 34.5mil refined AD.
It's <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>-blocked as it stands, I doubt there is a reason it will be changed. This is based on Rank 7's @ 35k, and they aren't all that price. It also excludes Armor and Weapon enchants @ 5mil for perfects - 44.5mil buying peridots at 500AD each and Rank 7's @ 35k and the perfect armor / weapon enchants from Auction at exactly 5mil each.
Then we have the Greater Mark of Potency need: 4*100k, 2*2*100k, 1*2*100k each Rank 10 at 1mil AD for the GMoP, x 15 for full rank 10's at 15mil on top (625 daily refine limit or 312.5 twin toon account refine limit).
That's 59.5 million AD from rank 7 to rank 10 x 15 and perfects @ 5mil each.
2480 days of refine limit (RAD). Nearly 7 years for a single toon without Auction sales, nearly 3.5 years for twin-toon accounts without auction sales.
Ofc, there is the Random Roll factor to apply to auction's, meaning there is somewhere in Neverwinter right now, someone who hopes to make it to full rank 10's with Auction sales, that is losing greed rolls most days.
Et Voila, we have monopoly. 146,914 Zen at 405AD
After 100 copies of my toon, I had full rank 10's and perfects, I believe I had 3 or 4 copies left full. It took hours of clicking, emptying mail, mailing, emptying mail.
The game is unobtainable for a lot of people at the most competitive levels, simply because it now costs 40-50mil AD worth of stuff (including the upgrade enchants and coals) to get full r9/10's.
That's a hell of a lot of grinding, don't forget I had free rank 7's of same type each copy and a peridot stack (99).
Those perfect r9/10 teams still take me out at 14.5k GS, but at least I can rinse the odd one out of that bracket.
Way back when prayer pack coals (dropped lol) could be traded, people could upgrade quickly, they also had the opportunity of saving AD on refinement points just using the same enchant (it's 100k refinement points for a lesser nubcheddar enchant to be upgraded with another lesser nubcheddar enchant + greater mark of potency (100k) + coal (190-250k).
Rank 7 to Rank 10 is still 7 more rank 7's (245k at 35k each), 4 coals for rank 8's (800-1mil ad), 2 coals for rank 9's (400k-500k) and a coal for rank 10 (200k-250k) or 1.645mil refined AD before refinement points.
For perspective; 68.5 days of refine limit on RAD per rank 10 WITHOUT refinement points.
That's 1027.5 days of refine limit, WITHOUT refinement points for 15x rank 10 from "all rank 7's"
Add in the refinement points needed and it's a headache. 656640 refinement points from rank 7 to 1 rank 10. Taking Peridots at 500 refinement points and NO CRITICAL refinements (they don't) it's 656640AD for each, 9,849,600AD for 15x. Another 410 days of refinement limit.
In total, the refinement COST for 15 rank 10's, using peridots at 500AD each is 1437.9 days of refining the limit (719 days with 2 full characters) or 34.5mil refined AD.
It's <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>-blocked as it stands, I doubt there is a reason it will be changed. This is based on Rank 7's @ 35k, and they aren't all that price. It also excludes Armor and Weapon enchants @ 5mil for perfects - 44.5mil buying peridots at 500AD each and Rank 7's @ 35k and the perfect armor / weapon enchants from Auction at exactly 5mil each.
Then we have the Greater Mark of Potency need: 4*100k, 2*2*100k, 1*2*100k each Rank 10 at 1mil AD for the GMoP, x 15 for full rank 10's at 15mil on top (625 daily refine limit or 312.5 twin toon account refine limit).
That's 59.5 million AD from rank 7 to rank 10 x 15 and perfects @ 5mil each.
2480 days of refine limit (RAD). Nearly 7 years for a single toon without Auction sales, nearly 3.5 years for twin-toon accounts without auction sales.
Ofc, there is the Random Roll factor to apply to auction's, meaning there is somewhere in Neverwinter right now, someone who hopes to make it to full rank 10's with Auction sales, that is losing greed rolls most days.
Et Voila, we have monopoly. 146,914 Zen at 405AD
Post edited by brobora on
0
Comments
"Double Refinement Point weekends" events. (Will increase Auction prices and deplete reserve)
"Month Long increased chance of Coal Wards from prayer coin packs" (They are account bound, would not have an effect on Auction Prices as 1 Coal used leads to another coal being needed)
"Rank 7's from Dungeon Delve" (The prices are currently below the 2x Mark of Potency - rare WB cost at the minute).
"Greater Mark of Potency chance in DD chest during event" - (Auction equilibrium with the Wondrous Bazaar will remain within 10k)
There are enticing solutions available to the Neverwinter team.
What do you think of the options presented in post 2?
The release of Module 3 is also an amazing way to make AD. There are many ways you can make AD with the release of new content. As always, check out this killer guide if you want more info!
Join Essence of Aggression: PVP-ing Hard Since Beta!
Go figure, right?
Here's another point. You don't need Perfect enchants and R10's to clear any content in this game. All the PvE content is doable with much, much less. And going from R7-8's to R10's is maybe a 5-6% increase in effectiveness for your toon, when you take into account diminishing returns.
And the last point. Unlike most other MMOs, your example at least demonstrates that it's possible for any player to achieve BIS. In many other MMOs that require you to raid with 10,15 or even 40(!) other players to get BIS gear, you CAN complete that in Neverwinter solo or in 5-man teams. So in that regards "A Really Long Time" is still better than "Never".
THIS.
And... The problem isn't about how expensive is to upgrade an enchant or purchase an item, it is about how are you getting money. Every whine thread about the cost of everything in the server is based around RAD and the max 24k per day that we can refine, which must serve as an addition to your daily income, can't be your only or most important income. Also, there's already so many people around with r10/perfects since long time ago, making everything cheaper when these people already got everything they needed will make even more richer due to the deflation.
I don't know what you mean by that. Sometimes it takes an unseemly number of pres wards to go from a 5 to a 6 even. then I'll get a couple of 7s to 8s without using one. With the sort of numbers involved (10% chance at worse), the RNG doesn't really have a chance to kick you hard enough to make coalescent wards remotely economic. Ever.
Ah, but I think he's talking about pvp - you know, that silly, unbalanced minigame that some people take too seriously?
(Which always confuses me - you'd think that people who are Oh So Serious™ about PvP would want to play an actual PvP game - one designed for and around it. Instead they keep getting worked up about the lousy minigames that get shoved into the back alleys of PvE MMOs. Strange.)
r5 stacks of the same enchant are usually <100k/99 r5s; this also gives double the refinement points of something from a different enchant or peridots and is fairly cheap
you can even use r4s or r3s to save even more money (but I'm too lazy)
Yes, it does take longer to refine, however, it's nice that I can get to r10 which I used to think was an unattainable dream.
W/o counting refinement points it costs ~1.5 million AD to make a rank 10 enchantment. Before to make a rank 10 radiant or azure it was >3 million, and to make a dark r10 it was >4 million. This is w/o including ward price.
While it "seems" more expensive, in reality everything is extremely cheap nowadays. Before it'd take me months to make a perfect enchant, but now it's rather easy and inexpensive (minus the coal wards
What if you hate the PvE and just want to PvP?
If those other MMOs, you can get everything you need to be BiS in PvP solely by doing PvP.
In Neverwinter, if you're a pure PvPer you're either broke and with bad gear, either P2W. Strategies like building a leadership army or playing the AH do not even apply to pure PvPers, cause they will lack the necessary funds to start doing these things.
For all the reasons you've pointed out (and so, so many more), PvP in neverwinter is...not fantastic.
I did however, point out that I didn't intend to aim for r10's on live as it was not only too costly, with my rolls, but also too time consuming, even with free stuff it took hours of clicking.
One thing (only one I'm going to put in this thread anyway) that Neverwinter has in PvP that surpasses it's rivals is the movement factor, I played Age of Conan a lot, on Fury EU, and this form of PvP isn't the standard MMO PvP buttonmash, you CAN avoid abilities with a shift-click, bit of sprinting, a dodge, tab-block. You can also just move a couple of keystrokes in PvE, things like this are arduous in other MMO's and it's compelling play, for a 5-a-side league on PuG it's practically risk free. practically...
I am getting close to needing to upgrade for something to do, otherwise I'm just going to end up a dirty version of the chest-gamblers... I'm pretty much a good example of the poor PvP'r that failed to corner the market or get free mounts or ninja loot, or trade with friends when it was practically free etc etc...
I'm not quite back up to how much Zen I've charged towards the game, but I do have a figure that's climbing.
I do still feel the progression of enchantments is still a very long winded one, and the post pretty much exposes that you DO need to sell on the auction (which means finding the items) to get anywhere near the target AD within a year.
On a solemn note of remembrance, out of those mythical values that exclude refinement points, and coal wards, it's still a hefty sum of time, and previous players' refinement limit.
Just to show how much people have played beforehand just to make the market as high as it is.
You can start Leadership for free. It literally requires zero assets to invest in. If you open up most of your profession slots, and can update your missions twice a day, you can earn anywhere from 50,000-100,000k+ AD a week, per character. All it takes is the time you spend to level it, and a few gold to buy the basic infantry weapons and armors. Everything else is free, generated through leadership.
Two more character slots will run you 500 Zen, or about 200k AD at current market prices. Less if you buy them when they go on sale, like they are this week.
I don't think anyone is every too broke to start building AD using leadership. Too lazy, perhaps. But given the start up costs are actually ZERO, and there's no competition since it's a close system, there's no excuse not to do it if you need more AD.
If people took an ounce of the effort they put into writing diatribes about how expensive everything is into actually generating a little wealth themselves, these posts would disappear. But as with every game, crying on the forums is much easier than actually doing something about it yourself.
This stuff takes forever to level and become reliable, read months.
Then you have to reinvest what you made to buy more char slots. And more. And level he toon again. I'd approximate at least 10-15 slots would be viable as a revenue source, with maxed leadership and such.
But more important is the fact that the PvP itself is the very effort you're talking about.
It's a bit puzzling to me why would you reward passive, skill-less Leadership better than PvP combat.
Have no money? If you spend enough time, that doesn't matter. Have no time? If you spend enough money, that doesn't matter.
What you spend your time/money ON is entirely irrelevant, really.
You'll start making a little AD after a week, a lot a couple weeks after that. But you have to invest at some point. And you don't need 10-15 slots to be "viable as a revenue source". Plus 1 more than you have now is a revenue source. Even if you're only making 50k more per week than you'd normally make, that's 50k more than you'd have for nearly no effort.
But that's what people do. That guy who has rank 10 enchantments and perfect armor/weapon enchantments...guess what he did? He went out and earned AD. It wasn't just handed to him, as much as you want to believe. I know it's easier for the ego if you believe he just swiped his credit card and bought all his gear. Heck, I know it's easier to just ASSUME everyone who kills you in PvP is full R10/Perfect. And ultimately, that's the problem with the PvP crowd.
If you beat someone, it's because you're clearly the more skilled player. If someone beats you, it's obviously because they paid to win, or the class they're playing is OP'd and needs to be nerfed.
Those two sentences pretty much sum up 98.62% of all the posts on the subject.
I wish this were true, as I would be the top pvp'er on the server.
Heh...that was one heck of a typo, eh?
COAl wards easier then like 3 -6 boxes = 1 coal now i opened 52 boxes and not even 1..... I farmed 147 purple skirmish boxes (What is it called?) not even 1 greater mark of potency....
I feel for those new players coz sadly and it might be true this is the time the game is slowly turning to Pay to win stage...
Anyweis PVp is farmable not paying a scent w/c gives u thats work for ur keep mentality.. But enchantments arrrghhh moments.
We will see if ICe armors purified/corrupted are LEet PAy to win gear... well im gona take it deep if its the case and stick wth my pvp gear or quit.
You guys have to realize that the ppl with full r10s/perfects either payed for it or spend endless hours in CN.
Those enchants are the best ones you can possible get, with a ALOT of afford.
If your not able/dont want to spend time for farming ad then stick with your current gear but dont make threads about how ''impossible'' it is to get them.
Each time when i read such a thread it sounds like ''i'm too poor/lazy'' to farm my stuff, pls make it easier to get.
The thread is designed that way.
If you're going to limit yourself by not using the auction house at all, then the game doesn't have to change for you. While I agree that it's an obscene amount of time that is required to get your character to max gear (which, by the way, is NOT required for ANY endgame content except hyper-"competitive" PvP), it is NOT impossible to earn such a sum of money. I make far beyond the measly 24k refinement cap every single day, and I have never bought Zen with real world money. Check out Trace's guide on AD creation and wealth building. A lot of it is garbage now since it's old, but a lot of it works.
Let me explain it to u all, it's easy, PWE needs cash, so, how will they get that money? simple, coal wards is needed to upgrade enchants, and ppl creat alts, many of then, so coal is needed to make then stronger, so making coal bonded to char (free ones) and also very hard to get, force ppl to buy then with cash, with is the goal of PWE, on near future free coal will dessapear, and only cash packs and item mall will have it, and it's price will rise, now 250k ad but it cost 1k zen, so it'll cost like 400~500k ad per coal and since u wont have any other way to get it, u must buy zen, that's the idea and soon will be here.