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HRs in dungeon groups
ricorosebud
Member Posts: 11 Arc User
I have noticed a general disdain and sometimes out and out prejudice of having a HR in a dungeon party. In fact, you can see many messages in LFG channel that state plainly: "NO HRs"
And I understand why, many subpar HRs out there that spam Split Shot, aggroing everything, then the tank has to chase the dodging HR around trying to collect a train of mobs why the healer tries to find them. This is an unfortunate symptom of a larger problem that is fundamentally tied to the game: DPS FAST NAO GOGOGOGOGO
If a HR subscribes to this philosophy, you are going to run into trouble. HRs can still put up great numbers, you just have to let the tank (or other dps) grab the agro first. Be selective and smart with Split Shot. If you do grab more agro than you should have, don't run all over the map, try to keep them grouped up so everyone else can help take them out. (Thusly helping yourself) TLDR; HRs don't be impatient, be smart and the numbers you seek will be there.
And the community at large: HRs can be valuable members to the team and fun folks to play with. Don't be blinded by prejudice, these players are worth finding.
And I understand why, many subpar HRs out there that spam Split Shot, aggroing everything, then the tank has to chase the dodging HR around trying to collect a train of mobs why the healer tries to find them. This is an unfortunate symptom of a larger problem that is fundamentally tied to the game: DPS FAST NAO GOGOGOGOGO
If a HR subscribes to this philosophy, you are going to run into trouble. HRs can still put up great numbers, you just have to let the tank (or other dps) grab the agro first. Be selective and smart with Split Shot. If you do grab more agro than you should have, don't run all over the map, try to keep them grouped up so everyone else can help take them out. (Thusly helping yourself) TLDR; HRs don't be impatient, be smart and the numbers you seek will be there.
And the community at large: HRs can be valuable members to the team and fun folks to play with. Don't be blinded by prejudice, these players are worth finding.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Post edited by ricorosebud on
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Comments
HR common mistakes is split shooting early before tanks can aggro everything. If the room full of elites I don't dare use split shots often, split the skies and rain of arrow is sufficient enough to help tanks deal with the mobs once they are rounded up.
My HR roles usually help focus DPS on boss or get aggro off DC and CW. Split the sky slow debuff can help tanks that aggro train, giving him small window to buff himself. If I'm getting swamped by non elite, just switch to melee use forest ghost, either run toward tanks or use aoe melee, since split shot arc is terrible on close range.
For me, the better substitute for Split Shots is Electrical Shots or Aimed Shot. With module 3 (Icewind Dale) coming, Electrical Shots getting buffed while Split Shots is nerfed (I welcome this because less threat build up now).
Why?, SS exceeds the damage that is done with rapid shot, even when you are attacking to one enemy...
Good HR's are very very good for a group.
The only concept Split Shot spammers understand is "does the most damage to the most monsters, even against 1 enemy".
And dont understand why spamming that is not actually helpful to the group.
Well actually when im running a dungeon I use encounters, dailies and other atwills, like aimed shot, it isn't just SS Spam, but if you are scared of the aggro I often go next to the group of enemies or next to the gwf/tr, etc..., get the angle and spam ss and roa, then dodge them and so on, I wont change 10-15k per enemy in 1 single SS (or even more) for a 2-3k per hit to 1 enemy with rapid shot... the difference is extreme...
Its almost like it was designed for better thought-out dungeons and mobs.
Jugger Conq GF
....
Note: Parsed with 6.5k power + 35% crit + Fallen Dragon Bow + Perfect Vorpal.
If I'm getting excessive aggro at that point, then that means DPS from the other group members is lacking.
Unfortunately, with the upcoming nerfs, not sure this sequence will be viable ... really not sure what sequence will be viable to be honest.
I dont want to go with a melee or support build.
What do you guys think about that?
That is a good post, thank you. I experimented with rapid vs split in epic dungeons lately and am finding I draw almost no aggro by focusing a boss with rapid/aimed shot. Mobs run right past, it is pretty sweet and hitting a boss with 20k+ aimed shot bursts while DPS'ing the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of it with rapid shot is nice. It means all the burst and dps you could want without even touching your encounter or daily slots yet, which can be saved for party buffs, interrupts and panic buttons.
I want to see what these look like in their final versions (sorry preview shard) before going any route that relies on currently under performing encounters in my pve rotation. I have been using fox step less as a "free dodge for me" buff, and more as a "free dodge for the entire party every 17 or so seconds" buff. Your rotation sounds like it would draw mad aggro and afaik the only real point to that in NWO is to kite massive tangles of ads, which an HR is not best suited to do. At least not me! lol. In major fights I am trying to damage down the worst of the spawn, while mitigating massive enemy aoe damage to my team via interrupts, the free dodge and so on.
Jugger Conq GF
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I think you are wasting your time.
After Mod 3, as it stands currently, the HR is no longer viable in PvE. I have no interest in PVP so I cant comment on that.
I have run on the test server and the HR is no longer capable of surviving solo content, and cannot contribute in group content.
None of the "improvements" to some encounters in any way balance the huge nerfs to Split Shot, Stormstep action and Foxes shift/Cunning.
The HR is dead, unless you want to play a weak druid with a bow.
Nothing to see here, move along please.
I personally think that PWE/Cryptic should refund anyone who bought the HR starter kit. They well and truly wasted their money.
I'll have to wait and see how it plays out with DD groups. If they havent fully compensated for the 45% damage reduction in SS with other powers, then yes HRs will be even less wanted in groups than they are now.
As far as doing normal content - I dont need split shot even in the current build. Rapid shot + thorn + rain of arrows will take out most mobs with no problems. Squishy trash mobs will take 2 SS shots instead of one, no big deal. So I think you're exagerating a bit there.
My HR is made for reasonable DPS (I usually run 20% behind a DPS-geared GWF in dungeons), good ability to handle aggro and massive area debuffing. I use a Greater Plaguefire Enhancement and try to spam it around all over the battlefield hitting as many targets I can as many times I can pull out.
Encounter powers are Split the Sky, Rain of Arrows and Marauder's Escape. Split the Sky is useful to apply the debuff to vast areas (I often have three of them up in the air at the same time), Rain of Arrows stacks it rapidly on bosses and is useful to terminate thrash mobs, and Marauder's Escape is good to handle aggro as monsters pause 1-2 secs to look around for you when you use it (and you can reposition yourself)-
And I use Split Shot all the time when not using encounter powers.
The whole build is based on fast recovery of encounter powers so I use Royal Guard Armour (with all the hits this setup generates the 4-pieces boon comes often into play), maxed Prime Critical and Correcting Aim to recover encounter powers faster (my real crit rate is roughly 48-49% tested on dummies with Split Shot, obtained with 2900 crit, 23 Wisdom and maxed Correcting Aimed).
As you may imagine I generate a lot of aggro this way and unless a very tanky GF is present I will soon start to draw monsters on me. The main tools I use to deal with aggro are Marauder's Escape and Forest Ghost. If Forest Ghost is available, I use it immediately after setting up Split The Sky and start spamming Split Shot. If aggro gets serious I start dodging, then use Marauders Escape, spam Split Shot, dodge, use Split the Sky and Rain of Arrows and repeat until Forest Ghost comes up again.
With 1600 Lifesteal I rarely go down as I get constant healing from Split the Sky even if I´m not attacking (yes, Dead Dragon weapons are worth their cost).
There are a few exceptions where I avoid this setup, namely Frozen Heart 2nd and last boss (because of the golems that are simply too deadly) and Spellplague´s last boss if there is a GF, as would get into his way when he brings enemies to the platform's edge.
Also CN 2nd boss is an issue if you don´t have two CWs or 1 CW and a good GF, but honestly without them it is an issue for everybody (even GWFs) in my experience.
This build has several of advantages for the party: first of all I small mobs aggro to me and give breath to wizards and clerics, I momentarily "stun" monsters often (as they stop to look around when I use Marauder´s Escape or Forest Ghost), and apply a lot of defense debuffs that are basically straight bonuses to damage for all party members. DPS is still quite good and I trash easily small nasty mobs like Powries and Witherers.
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
Well, then at the end you confirm that SS have better DPS, but you say that Rapid Shot is better for the CDR... CDR is nice, but I wouldn't say an essence of HR (there aren't a lot of encounters that are worth using for PvE, I would say just 3 or 4, and they aren't so important to finish the dungeon like CW's Singu or DC's Hallowed Ground), however... throughout all the dungeon (except the bosses) you will be able to hit more than 1 enemy the 95% of the time so just by spamming SS and RoA you will have a very good CDR, so I don't see that RS is usefull here... and when you are facing a boss, for example fulminorax, I've done 75k+ with Aimed Shot (with the correct Buffs/Debuffs, and I don't even have G. Vorp, just Normal), so... even if valindra interupts me 1/2 of the times... why I would replace it for 3-4k per hit with Rapid Shot?... With Thorn Ward/RoA i'm getting a very good CDR too, then I really don't know when Rapid Shot should be used, for me it's not usefull at all, with Aimed Shot and SS I cover all the situations pretty good, even for PvP...
I run ME,Split the Sky, and Rain of Arrows..
(Non Boss Dungeon situation): I pop Split over the gwf who advances first then use split to take out some of the trash mobs trailing around, hopefully the CW is ready to use singularity, this is where it gets fun. I switch over to melee to use the Split the Sky equiv. cant recall the name sorry, then pop a Rain of Arrows over the singualrity. After than its a quick few more Split shots and the mobs are all gone.
Now, im no pro-gamer but this seems to work and doesnt ever cause me any issues with pulling to much agg. or chaos.
I don't play any other classes regularly and have never heard and negative feed back from the others on it interfering with their abilities or pulling to much agg. If I ever get to much agg. Ill pop a rain of arrows just in front or around me with another Split the Sky melee ability and that takes care of that.
Single target encounters are completely different. Just solid controlled dps and depbuff to boss, cleaning up small adds and such. Not my builds strong suit.
Any one use this similarly? (I skimmed the thread, sorry if its a repeat question)
And by the way I saw somebody saying that Aspect of the Falcon is not good. I use it most of the time in PvE as it lets me pepper targets with cone effects while standing out of reach (Winter Wolves are an example, as are a lot of the mobs at the first Karrundax boss and some nasty guys like Fomorian warriors and witches at Malabog's Castle).
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80