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Lair of the mad dragon... Am I really this useless?
abocanhadora
Member Posts: 9 Arc User
I am not really one too post this kind of topics but this time... I will make a expection.
I am a devoted cleric, level 60, with 11.4k Gear Score. Now I am giving priority to how well I can survive any encounter and only later I will try too improve my dps as a cleric. Soo between other things, I am around the 25k life mark, with 2.2k defence, a soulforce enchantment (the cheapest one, lesser) on my armor. Soo in the papper, I should have no problem doing something as the last dragon from "Lair of the mad dragon", Chartilifax, right?
But the truth is, I am having a lot of problems doing it! If I am doing the run with my fellow guild members, then I hardly have a problem: I can keep everyone alive and end the fight in a matter of 3 minutes. But if I am joining a random queque, with 4 random players for this, I feel like I am getting totally overwhelming with the boss. More times than not, this kind of parties cannot even kill "Baelrath the Vile" or barely kill it and that one is just a training for the big green dragon coming...
The problem I usually find out its the adds that Chartilifax that spawns at around 75%, 4 or 5 adds... That ones are the ones that usually force me too move around/dodge until I do a mistake and step into a red zone, getting my a_ss handed too me.
Is there any way for me too make this fight easier? Or perhaps its more of a "party coordination" problem than actual what I am doing as a single cleric? Perhaps the random players that joins with me have GS soo pathetic low that no cleric in the world could help them?
Sorry for the big rant, I would apreciate any hints about this.
I am a devoted cleric, level 60, with 11.4k Gear Score. Now I am giving priority to how well I can survive any encounter and only later I will try too improve my dps as a cleric. Soo between other things, I am around the 25k life mark, with 2.2k defence, a soulforce enchantment (the cheapest one, lesser) on my armor. Soo in the papper, I should have no problem doing something as the last dragon from "Lair of the mad dragon", Chartilifax, right?
But the truth is, I am having a lot of problems doing it! If I am doing the run with my fellow guild members, then I hardly have a problem: I can keep everyone alive and end the fight in a matter of 3 minutes. But if I am joining a random queque, with 4 random players for this, I feel like I am getting totally overwhelming with the boss. More times than not, this kind of parties cannot even kill "Baelrath the Vile" or barely kill it and that one is just a training for the big green dragon coming...
The problem I usually find out its the adds that Chartilifax that spawns at around 75%, 4 or 5 adds... That ones are the ones that usually force me too move around/dodge until I do a mistake and step into a red zone, getting my a_ss handed too me.
Is there any way for me too make this fight easier? Or perhaps its more of a "party coordination" problem than actual what I am doing as a single cleric? Perhaps the random players that joins with me have GS soo pathetic low that no cleric in the world could help them?
Sorry for the big rant, I would apreciate any hints about this.
Post edited by abocanhadora on
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Comments
For instance when the adds spawn you shouldn't have to worry about them , the dps or tanking classes should be ready to come off the boss and take care of them with you backing them up.
Your tale is not unusual. What you describe is pretty normal. Your guild works together, the pugs don't (usually.)
You mentioned working on DPS.. IMO that should be your last concern. Keep the party healed and buffed if you can, and debuff the bad-guys when possible.
People need to take off the tunnel vision goggles and deal with the adds when they get out of hand. It sounds like your pug team is each member thinking only of himself and wanting to look good on the paingiver chart so he can point fingers at everyone else. They are as responsible for keeping the adds off you as you are for keeping them healed. (And your responsibility for keeping them healed ends where they stop taking care not to help the enemy kill them, although in the end that is no comfort at a wipe.)
The other thing that tends to hurt in a pug, is there is no telling the party composition you will get. And it makes a difference. This dungeon should just about be a t2. So lots of newish players probably jump right in, not prepared for what's coming at all.
If you are doing fine with your guild you are doing fine.
Roland Mac Sheonin GF | Tarron Direheart SW |
Hahahaha harder than many t2s? Srsly? Oh boy this is hilarious.
Lowbies: DC (level 31) | HR (level 16)
You can almost always find me in the legit channel. Happy Adventuring!
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Actually, heres a list of T2's (imo) easier than Mad Dragon
Lair of the Pirate King(are you kidding? Final boss is basically a slightly more difficult version of his brother(cragmire crypts))
Caverns of Karrundax(More adds and uncontrollables, but hellfire magi are more annoying than molten brutes and such imo). Final Boss a more mob heavy, but easier version, of Mad dragon's actually.
Icespire's Frozen Heart(I experience lag for first 2 bosses, but a tank can kite uncontrollable mobs, while CWs nuke). Final boss includes 1 tank kite, everyone else on boss.
As far as T1's, the only one I consider harder is Gray Wolf Den(and that's cuz the shadow wolves can hit HARD, as well as Final Bosses' hands(if you get hit by them)).
For pete's sake, Throne of Idris(the next t1 in line after mad dragon) is a snooze and a cakewalk!
I second this. All it is is the first dungeon where team cohesion, and priority targeting, really come into play.
of course, pugs r seriously uncoordinated for this boss fight and often overly stress out the cleric by:
-I joined a guild and started running T2's shortly after reaching lvl 60 with my CW. I had a 12.5k GS and did Karrundax with another guild CW who was at 9.8k and had virtually no enchantments in any of their equipment. They nearly doubled my damage. I was using an inefficient build, the wrong spells, and the wrong tactics. They already knew which build, spells, and tactics worked because they had played through several times before.
-A few nights ago I did Fardelver's Crypt with three guild members and one PUG CW with 13k GS. The PUG CW did less damage than the 11k guild DC. He was doing 1/5th of the damage I was every single run.
The reason your guild runs go smoother is because your guild likely knows what it is doing. Your tanks probably draw aggro much better, and your GWF's, CW's, and HR's probably know how to dish out massive damage eliminating adds before you are ever bothered with them. Pick up groups are very much hit and miss.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
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Mad Dragon, at its intended level, is far too much for an uncoordinated PUG in the 10 - 11k GS range.
I often find the 30% health spawn of death (Erinyes + Legions) is wipe time.
You kinda have to tell your pugs what to do. Most people don't come to the forums, half of them don't even read chat or have no idea about what English is, so, that's not a good start. Still there's often one or two guys who will answer you and can perform basic actions like "kill adds first when they spawn", "use more aoe spells please" or "don't pull the boss in a corner", depending on the encounter. Ideally you want two people on adds in MD in pugs because most of them will have less dps than my cleric and they will have issues not standing in red so they have to share some aggro.
The best case scenario is having a GWF holding adds with the wizard because the wizard can teleport a lot and the gwf can take a lot of bad hits before dying, but any class will do, just not the tank, because pug tanks will often aggro the dragon by mistake and pull it to adds or just will have close to no dps, so just let him do his own stuff.
The priority should be killing hellfire maguses as soon as they spawn because they have a nasty prone effect and some players will die to that not being used to anticipate that kind of thing like more experienced players. So yes that's the priority. There are 8 hellfire magus during the whole fight and that makes it a bit tactically challenging but nothing crazy, all you need is at least one, ideally two, people focusing them. Try to put your astral shield to heal both the adds team and the boss one. And always use astral seal on both targets (the at will spell). This should help a lot too, there's a lot a cleric can do in such encounters. I'm kind of used to carry people when I pug with my cleric, that's something you're going to have to learn too if you want to keep using the public queue. Which means stacking power to insane levels while maintaining basic defense (2000) and not investing in deflect/regen.
Now this is a very basic starter's guide for pugs and your guildies will melt adds with aoe spells and it won't even be an issue, which means that socializing tends to improve greatly the game experience and the average playing skill. Also, the rule n. 1 when pugging is: never rage in party chat. It makes people ignoring anyone giving advices later and it's harder to make them get there's a real issue.
You need just one GF/HR/GWF to take adds and to run around far from the Dragon heal time to time him all other on boss - that's all. For me as HR is really easy to get mobs because Split Shot spam and to run+hit them I did this sometimes with PUGs all they just jump on boss and I run with adds - fast and easy.
Some of you say that "If you are doing it with guildies and no deaths, then you are doing it right." Yes, I understand: Not only they are usually better equiped than the casual PUGs, but we also use the voice chat for party, making the run a breeze. The problem I found out more times then not are the adds that the boss spawns, either at 75% or/and at 25%: those adds are always the pain of my existence.
Also another thing I tried recently was a full healing setup: astral shield/sacred flame, Foresight/Holy Fervor, Sun Burst/Forgemaster's Flame/Astral Shield, Hallowed Ground as my daily power (with some feats associated, hallowed ground also heals my allies if I am not mistaken). I notice that Forgemaster's Flame in divinity helps a little more with removing some healing pressure from me (usually I used Divine Glow in other circunstances).
I also made sure, the last 3 times I tried this dungeon with random party, I would lower the graphics too the "Tomb Raider 1" age (my cleric looked like a square). I also find out I am having a huge lag on this game, which definately reflects in bosses fights like this one.
I honestly am in the point that I am actually thinking in just buying the helm I need from AH (High prophet helm, around 200k AD) and just get over with it...
Dont - you wil grow with that experiences - i died at Mad Dragon lots of times and didnt have a guild when i ran this. Some guildmember of mine tought me:
"Dont buy stuff that you can get elsewhere"
I managed to do so until now (bought Malabog fragments after 50+ runs). I advise you to do so too. You will salvage a lot of T1 and T2 stuff from chest in the future.
Hi, I just wanted to clarify my own statement which was, 'If you are doing fine with your guild you are doing fine.'
What I meant by that is that clearly you know how it is supposed to go. And I would think that at some point your guildies offered tips or you asked for them.
My main point was just that while there is always room for improvement, you are most likely NOT 'really this useless.' (Quoting you...)
Lots of times people like to scapegoat the cleric.. but unless the cleric is a real live potato head, it's usually not his fault.
As far as buying the gear... there is nothing wrong with that. You will miss out on the warm glowy feeling you get when you win it.
But if it gets you to the next phase, where you can continue toward your goals, whatever they are, it might be worth it. Just think it through and go with what feels right for you.
Roland Mac Sheonin GF | Tarron Direheart SW |
This cannot be stated enough. Healing in this game isn't bursty, it's slow, sustained and largely mitigation-based rather than direct hitpoint restoration-based. This means it's also largely anticipatory rather than reactive. In T1s (even MD) and most T2s, a good cleric is an asset but not a requirement if the rest of your group is good, and a bad cleric will rarely be the reason a group fails.
A good group with a bad cleric should be just fine.
A bad group with a bad cleric will usually die horribly.
A bad group with a good cleric will usually die horribly, but just...more slowly.
You need to get to stupid levels of gear before you can heal through stupid.
No, you can't. The indicated GS for dungeons is imho way too low. 5 players with 6800 gs will achieve nothing in a dungeon. Minimum gs should be 10-11k imho. There will be ofc someone saying that he can solo it with 6800 but that's just a plain lie.
The player just need to understand that they do not play single game but multi player game. I bought items from AH green and blue since lvl 5. People sell it cheapest because this is trash.
So if you see fresh 60 with 6-7k GS and green items from 40 lvl, this player is not just with low GS but someone who do not know how to play games at all. Or just do it very wrong.